Big Dave Meltzer Appreciation Thread

THE 101

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From latest Observer (taken verbatim!):




Either AEW cut Dave off in the last 2 weeks or he's realized he hitched his wagon to the wrong horse, because after defending anything and everything AEW related for 10 weeks, he's taken a hard turn, but this is ruder than anything even I could say about a wrestler that isn't Konnan. :picard:

He's actually been more critical of them than people have given him credit for. He's called out a lot of their weaker booking from the jump. He's definitely done some cheerleading but he's been pretty balanced. These lame ass Wreddit geeks getting deluded by Conrad and his crew of podcast carnies.
 

JerseyBoy23

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From latest Observer (taken verbatim!):




Either AEW cut Dave off in the last 2 weeks or he's realized he hitched his wagon to the wrong horse, because after defending anything and everything AEW related for 10 weeks, he's taken a hard turn, but this is ruder than anything even I could say about a wrestler that isn't Konnan. :picard:

He shyt on the Buy In's and the Librarians early as hell.
 

JerseyBoy23

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He's actually been more critical of them than people have given him credit for. He's called out a lot of their weaker booking from the jump. He's definitely done some cheerleading but he's been pretty balanced. These lame ass Wreddit geeks getting deluded by Conrad and his crew of podcast carnies.

In general, I think it's cause people see quotes from WOR or WOL and immediately assume Dave said it but usually it's Bryan or Vinny were the ones caping for AEW or shytting on WWE.
 

DoubleJ13

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Dave shyts on the same stuff everybody else does because he looks around & sees what everybody else is saying so he ain't out there on a limb as negative about something. He was talking about how much he didn't like Omega vs Moxley at Full Gear & still went like 4.5 stars on it because his bubble didn't think it was bad.


WCW Jim Duggan is a hilarious burial though. Omega going to have to have a talk with Dave on the Jericho cruise in a few weeks.
 

Honga Ciganesta

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Satin the shill coming at the GOAT :dwillhuh:

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The Rock lost to, and was laid out, by EVERYONE :heh: Never made a difference to his stardom



Nice argument :beli: V Trigger isn't even a fukking finish
 

Honga Ciganesta

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And here's the Howard obit

Howard Finkel, who along with Jimmy Lennon Sr. of Los Angeles would be considered one of the two greatest ring announcers in American pro wrestling history, passed away on 4/16 at the age of 69.

Finkel, whose relationship with Vince McMahon dated back to 1975, handled the announcing in the ring of the vast majority of WWF’s biggest matches from 1977 through the early 00s.

Finkel was believed to have suffered a serious stroke in 2018. Jerry Lawler mentioned it in passing during an interview, but even some of his close friends in the company were unable to get any information on him when attempting to contact him or get confirmation if that was true.

He did meet with some talent later while in a wheelchair.

Finkel was born June 7, 1950 in Newark, NJ. He was working at an usher at the New Haven Coliseum in 1975 when he first became connected to McMahon.

He is the person who came up with the name WrestleMania.

“This was 1984, so I said 20 years ago four guys from Liverpool came across the shores to the United States and made phenomenal impression on everybody,” Finkel said in an interview with Slam! Wrestling. “They called that Beatlemania. So I said, `There was Beatlemania. Why can’t there be WrestleMania?’ The rest is history.”

Finkel started working for the McMahons in the mid-70s, hired by Vince’s father after working as an usher and reporting to him regarding the rival IWA promotion headed by sports television magnate Eddie Einhorn, that WWWF, as it was known at the time, was in a very short war with. It’s said that his nickname, “The Fink,” actually came from his original role in the business.

He started ring announcing in Connecticut. His biggest career break was when he got a gig to ring announce the January 17, 1977, Madison Square Garden show, which was headlined by Bruno Sammartino defending the WWWF title against Ken Patera, Ivan Putski vs. Bruiser Brody and Chief Jay Strongbow & Billy White Wolf (who later became Sheik Adnan Al-Kaissie) against The Masked Executioners (Killer Kowalski & John Studd).

Finkel immediately broke out of the pack as a standard ring announcer with his inflections and how he would emphasize certain words for the most dramatic feel. He was the inside the ring voice of Madison Square Garden wrestling through the end of 1983, and when the company went national, he was the inside the ring voice of the company.

In the combat sports world, his iconic nature of saying “AND NEW” after a championship change, for the national audience is probably most remembered for Hulk Hogan’s 1984 Madison Square Garden win over The Iron Sheik. Some would say that match and his call at the end kicked off the end of an era in the business and the beginning of another era.

Because of his thorough knowledge of the product, his style enhanced the characters of every babyface and every heel at the start of the match. He saved the best of his booming voice for the headliners, and the icons, such as Sammartino, and later Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Steve Austin, Bret Hart, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Roddy Piper, Bob Backlund, Jimmy Snuka, Randy Savage and others. He would have his unique way, particularly important in the era before entrance music, where he would dramatically say something like, “From the Fiji Islands,” in a way that the crowd would explode, knowing Jimmy Snuka, the company’s most popular wrestler in the early 80s, was about to come down the aisle. He would exude reverence to the babyface champions and build bigger pops for announcing their victories.

Perhaps most memorable to fans of the late 70s would be just before the final match of the Madison Square Garden, and generally, the main event was put in the middle of the show those days, he would come out to announce the lineup for the next show.

He’d start slowly for the prelims, announcing matches that would get mediocre reactions. His would build to the mid-carders, build up even more if a special attraction star like Dusty Rhodes, Andre the Giant or Mil Mascaras was a guest on the show. He would peak for the championship match, always getting a huge reaction even though based on booking patterns and the latest heel being pushed on television, or based on a disputed finish of the main event earlier, most fans generally would have been able to figure out the match. If it was a gimmick match, like a cage match or Texas death match, Finkel would put the usual emphasis on he heel challenger and face champion of the era, but his booming voice would explode with the announcement of the definitive stipulation on the next show that would, in theory, settle this feud. But his most memorable announcements would come from 1978 to 1980, when Backlund was champion, on the occasional nights when Sammartino would return.

He would announce the championship match as always, tease that was it, even act like he was about to exit the ring for a split second, and then say, that there was one more match, announce the heel who was usually a previous title contender, and then, in his proudest and most booming voice, say, “and his opponent, the living legend, Bruno Sammartino.”

When the WWF went national in 1984, he became a familiar part of the expansion. He was the lead ring announcer of most of the biggest PPVs from the national expansion through the end of the 90s. He also toured the country, and later the world, working as a full-time ring announcer. In foreign countries when WWF came for the first time, he would get a huge pop himself because he was the first person to come out during the show, and Howard Finkel’s face and voice meant “authentic WWF.”

Finkel became a full-time employee on April 1, 1980, the first hire of Vince McMahon Jr., two years before he was able to buy the promotion from his father and his father’s business partners for $1 million, a steal for a company that probably grossed seven times that much in annual revenue just in live gates alone.

When the TV tapings moved out of Hamburg and Allentown with the notional expansion, and became held around the country in medium-sized and later major arenas, Finkel was the ring announcer of WWE Superstars. That was key A show for the company’s biggest matches and angles prior to the advent of Raw in 1993.

He also worked in talent relations. One of Finkel’s minor roles in the 80s was in gathering information for the higher-ups like Vince McMahon and Pat Patterson. He subscribed to this publication, with the idea of fooling me by using the name Cathie Nickerson, his girlfriend at the time, who later became his wife, with the idea I wouldn’t know it was him. He was actually one of the first subscribers to this publication dating back to early 1983. He would xerox (remember that term) the issues and give them to the key people. Years later, when hotlines and the Internet became bigger, Finkel’s role was to do a daily news update for McMahon and the other key figures sometimes called The Finkel Report.

I will always say this, no matter how much of an enemy of the state I was considered at different points in time, more in that era, at every house show in San Francisco and Oakland that I attended, he would always go out of his way to find out where I was sitting. He would be the perfect company rep, friendly, outgoing and talk business in vague terms without saying anything controversial, with the most he’d talk about the aspects of the old business that we were both fond of. No matter how big the modern era got, he was still the most nostalgic about the crowd pops for Sammartino vs. Superstar Billy Graham in Madison Square Garden in his first year of announcing at the worlds’ most famous venue. He would still make clear how impressed he was at the growth of the company and the positive changes of the business, never saying things were worse, just that they changed, and also never knocking the things that made the old business special to him when he grew up and started out.

At live shows, Finkel and New Japan’s Hideki Tanaka, their ring announcer of the same generation were the masters of grabbing the hammer for the ring bell on near falls, so if you were looking in their direction, you got the impression they were readying to ring it and making the near falls feel like they could be the finish. Most of the arena could never see it and really unless you were at ringside you probably wouldn’t even know or realize the slight touch he’d add to the excitement of the matches.

In many ways, Finkel’s career plight was similar to that of Jim Ross. He was generally considered the best in the business at what he did, but the mentality of the business became less and less about who was best, and more and more about who was good looking. They were the same age. Had similar backgrounds. Both loved wrestling as kids and both had to adapt to a changing world and business. Both had a love for the business and great memories of it. In many ways, they were very different, but there are striking similarities as well.

Finkel could be the butt of McMahon’s jokes, like Ross, although he handled the chairman’s sense of humor very differently. But also, with Finkel, they were never as personal or as cruel . With Finkel, it could be an angle done where they would smash up his car so Vince could see Finkel’s reaction, but Vince would, of course, pay for all damages.

At times he was nicknamed Vince’s Mel Cooley in wrestling, after a character on the original dikk Van Dyke television show in the 1960s. Cooley was the straight-laced butt of constant jokes by Morey Amsterdam, one of the great comedians of all-time, on the show.
 

Honga Ciganesta

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In the early 90s, for example, when there was a blood test for an athletic commission that Hulk Hogan had to take to be licensed, for whatever reason, and you can speculate yourself, they decided against sending Hogan’s blood. Whether it was Hogan refusing or them not wanting to risk it given Hogan’s name value, it was ordered for Finkel to donate blood that was then listed to be Hogan’s. Obviously they all knew that there would be nothing in Finkel’s blood that could lead to problems. Somehow this got out and was quite an embarrassing news story at the time, although it had no ramifications past that.

“There are certain people in the industry who are special,” wrote Lance Storm in a social media post. “They are so unique and stand out in their specific role that they become iconic, almost a right of passage to the rest of us when we get to work with them. I would assume with each generation, these people change, for me and anyone even remotely close to my generation, Howard Finkel was one of these people. You often hear about Jim Ross in this role and he absolutely is. Everyone wanted, still wants Jim Ross to call one of their matches. It’s like a bucket list event, because he to them is the voice of wrestling and just always made your matches better. Howard Finkel is another, such a special human being. He is the greatest ring announcer of all-time, and his voice brings back all the great moments in my life as a wrestling fan. And being introduced by him was every bit as much a bucket list moment in my career as having Jim Ross calling my matches. It was like a sign that you’ve made it, that you’ve really done it.

“On top of his unparalleled iconic voice, he was also the nicest, sweetest man you could ever meet. He just loved wrestling, announcing wrestling, and being around everyone in wrestling. There was a special kindness to Howard Finkel, almost the naivete of an enthusiastic child. When he was at a show, he was the proverbial kid in a candy store. Hew was in his happy place. His face lit up no matter who he ran into. When you shook hands with Howard Finkel you were always greeted with a smile.

“My favorite memory of Howard was spending time with him at the Raw 10th anniversary show that we did at the WWE Restaurant in New York,” Storm continued. “We were packed into the place and I remember being there absurdly early and having a lot of time to kill. I’m not one for crowds so when I spotted Howard by himself, I immediately headed in his direction and spent the better part of a couple of hours talking with him. He told me the story of how he got in with WWE and how he was the first official employee at WWE (then WWF). His employee number was one. At the time there were a lot of wrestling autobiographies being done and he asked me what I thought about him doing a book. I could tell he was hoping WWE might ask him to do one.; My first thought was with all of the big names in WWE, I can’t imagine them asking Howard. But then I thought about the time he’d been on the job, and all of the things he’d witnessed. We talked about how I thought to sell the book. It might have to be marketed as a bit of a fly on the wall type book, `The history of WWE a seen through the eyes of Howard Finkel. I have no idea if it would have sold, but I have no doubt it would have been an amazing tale.”

Indeed, few know that Finkel, who only did the role a few times as a fill-in, was actually the best actual play-by-play announcer WWF had in the company in the mid-80s. Finkel was a legitimate major fan, had a great memory, and was a natural at calling matches and understood getting people over, the moves, had the voice and understood how to use it for maximum affect.

Deep down, I believe he wished he would have been given that opportunity. Once, when he did a show, he got praised for his work by Larry Matysik, who considered Finkel maybe his best friend in the company, and who himself was one of the best television announcers of the 70s and early 80s. When Matysik went to work for WWF in 1984, he was never given an opportunity at that job. Instead they wanted a guy like Jack Reynolds, who was terrible at announcing wrestling, but had the right look and better voice. There was a brief period in the late 80s when local ratings in St. Louis on KPLR had dropped so much the station was upset, and to pacify management, McMahon had Matysik do localized voiceovers of Superstars for that market alone. But that was obviously just a short-term thing and didn’t fit into McMahon’s longtime plans.

After Matysik praised Finkel’s work, Finkel responded and told him, “People like you and me, it doesn’t matter how good we are at this. We’re just not what they want.”

Finkel was the most loyal WWE employee there was, always talking about the company in a positive way, and always putting on the loyal face at the ribs. I never heard of him complaining even to people who knew, past maybe disagreeing with a decision here or there. He was always loyal to Vince McMahon. Even when replaced as ring announcer when he was the best in the business, he’d just say how the business changes and what they want changes and he didn’t fit what they want, without ever appearing bitter.

He was extremely well liked by almost everyone, universally respected as generally, the best to do ever do it, by both the fans of the era as well as the talent. The outpouring of emotion for him at his death was almost universal.

The only exception would have been Bill Moody (Paul Bearer) in a taped interview with Jim Cornette.

Moody said, “I have memories, I have some bad memories. I’ve seen him crying when they treated him so bad. He sat down and cried. If they treated me like that, I’d probably cry too. They treated him like shyt.”

Another former wrestler noted the saddest part was how shytty he was treated, noting what a nice man he was, and in that environment, many there saw his kindness as weakness.

Yet, no matter what he could have done, or the next generation of memories as the best ever to yet another generation, he always seemed thankful for what he had.

“Even as Howard’s health declined, he was more concerned about me and my fight to be healthy,” noted Roman Reigns on twitter. “We lost one of he greatest ever. He was the greatest ring announcer ever and that couldn’t even compare to the human being that he was.”

For the next generation of talent that grew up as fans, having Finkel introduce you to many was like having a Ross or a Jesse Ventura (who was considered WWF’s coolest announcer of the late 80s) call their matches.

“At WrestleMania 2000, after E&C won our first tag titles, I found myself alone in the locker room w/Howard Finkel after the show,” said Jay “Christian” Reso on Twitter. “I said, `Howard, I’ve waited my whole life to hear you say those words, `Aaand newww.’ He hugged me. He was genuine. He was the best.”

Many of the wrestlers of the current generation had similar thoughts growing up. They still had the moments where the ring announcer said it, copying Finkel’s call, but it could never be 100 percent the same as if it was Finkel doing it himself.

The first time Finkel was replaced from announcing the major shows was in 1995, when they used the younger and better looking Manny Garcia. Finkel still toured as a house show ring announcer. But that experiment failed in McMahon’s eyes and Finkel was brought back years later. But unlike Ross, who was replaced and brought back repeatedly, Finkel returned to television and PPV in early 1996, but only lasted a short time in the position until being replaced by Lilian Garcia.

After that move, the position was generally reserved for younger and better looking men and women, even if none could do it at the level of Finkel. He still did some PPVs, and on occasion, would be brought back for a special occasion, but as far as actual television, aside from a few angles, he was rarely used.

If not for this, I’d say Finkel would have been an automatic Hall of Famer, but in other sports, when you had a legitimate Hall of Famer, particularly in a ring announcer or p.a. announcer or play-by-play announcer, they become so iconic they wouldn’t be replaced until they were very old and could no longer do the job, and in the cases for the most iconic, often past that point because fans would be upset at it. But McMahon, pulled Finkel at the age of 45, and again at 47, because he was always about putting young people on television, even though he would make exceptions on the announcing side. But he got the idea that the ring announcing job should go to good looking people, and not the most competent, and as far as that went, nobody was better than Finkel, or even the voice the fans accepted as the authentic voice.

He was put in the WWE Hall of Fame in 2009 and elected into the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame in 2018. He and Lennon are the only two ring announcers in the Observer Hall of Fame.

He did PPVs after being taken off Raw, and house shows for years after, but was being phased out. He still worked house shows for years, and was the best at doing it. He still was a key figure every year at WrestleMania when his role would be to introduce the Hall of Fame inductees or their family members in front of the big crowd through 2016, prior to his health issues.

Once, in 2011, he was brought back at the insistence of C.M. Punk, at the time one of the company’s biggest stars, who wanted Finkel to introduce his title match with Alberto Del Rio.

Throughout the years he did a number of angles, again largely for the amusement of the chairman. He did a 1992 feud with wimpy manager Dr. Harvey Wippleman, who tore off Finkel’s tux. This led to a January 9, 1995 tuxedo match on Raw, which was more to entertain McMahon as the two guys were out there with the object of starting out in tuxedo’s, and having their clothes torn off until they were left in their underwear. Finkel, as the babyface, had to win, but he also had most of his clothes torn off, enough that he was in the ring in just saggy underwear marching around the ring with The Bushwhackers doing their walk in celebration.

In 1998, Jeff Jarrett shaved what little hair Finkel had left. This was to build to a SummerSlam match where Finkel was in X-Pac’s corner for a hair vs. hair match with Jarrett. Finkel got his revenge by helping cut Jarrett’s hair, although Jarrett, in spite of what the stipulation said, was not shaved bald and simply went to a shorter haired look.

In 1999, he played a deranged former ring announcer who attacked Tony Chimel on Smackdown in attempt to take his job back. WWF did the same angle a few years later on Raw with Jim Ross, as the deluded former announcer who thought he was still the voice of Raw after Michael Cole took his place.

Chris Jericho did a angle with him where Finkel played the masked heel ref, El Dopo, who gave Mr. Hughes an unfair win over Ken Shamrock.

In 2002, Finkel did a similar angle to what he and Ross did, as a heel feuding with Garcia over the Raw ring announcing spot. This led to a Garcia vs. Finkel clothes tearing match, Garcia in an evening gown and Finkel in a tux. Finkel had insulted other WWE women at the time. While the draw was the idea that Finkel would strip Garcia on television, it ended up with Garcia, Trish Stratus and Stacy Keibler all tearing his clothes off, again leaving him in his underwear.

He was brought back in 2012 to be the guest ring announcer on the 1,000th episode of Raw. He was also used as a cast member in an attempt by WWE to sell a reality show concept, Legends House. The series ended up getting no television takers, and was repackaged years later for the WWE Network. He appeared in a WWE web series the JBL & Cole show through 2015.

While he was not there due to health reasons, his voice was last used on the January 22, 2018, 25th anniversary of Raw where a tape of him introducing The Undertaker was used.

For people who grew up from the late 70s through the late 90s, the voice of Finkel will always be remembered as more than just a ring announcer, but as the ring announcer. Whether it be Bruce Buffer in UFC, or pretty much every English speaking ring announcer for any pro wrestling promotion who has any longtime fandom, they will, either consciously, or subconsciously, copy his mannerisms, voice modulation changes and dramatic pauses. Unlike with Lennon, who had a unique style of his own that wouldn’t work for others, with Finkel, his style is the textbook on what a ring announcer does, in every way. Partially because of time, aside from his son, there really isn’t a Jimmy Lennon Sr. in almost anyone. There will be some Michael Buffer in many future boxing ring announcers. There will be a lot of Howard Finkel in every ring announcer who grew up watching him, and later, from people who watched a next generation of announcers who themselves saw Finkel as their role model of how to do the job.

And whenever you see a title change, and hear the words, “AND NEW,” remember where it came from, as that, for generations, will be his everlasting legacy.
 

TrueEpic08

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Man, has Satin ever proven himself to not be an idiot? The only thing of worth he's ever done is prove that there are, in fact, people on this planet with less class than Abella Danger.

What an accomplishment.
 

Honga Ciganesta

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That's the Dave way :blessed: Always remember in the Savage obit (I think), he went from Wrestlemania to high school baseball to being born :dead:

Howard being the first Observer pirate :leon:
 

DoubleJ13

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Does he ever go back and fix editing issues

:mjlol:

If anybody ever went back & fixed stuff it wouldn't be Dave. Knowing how Dave operates even if he let somebody go back & fix stuff he would come back & change other shyt around to make the whole thing pointless.
 
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