Ben Taylor’s Greatest Offensive Players Series
- Thread starter Bigblackted4
- Start date
GOAT
The bubble was fraudulent
The only time Pau's Grizzlies had 7 double figure scorers were in '06 and he was coached by Fratello who is not in Springfield so no, I do not mean this made up Grizzlies team you're talking about...
Incidentally you're shytting on yourself as that same '06 year Fratello's Grizz had 7 double figure scorers, KG's Wolves had 5, including two 20-point scorers, Garnett played in 76 games and elevated the Wolves to...............33 wins.
So you tell me how many double figure teammates Garnett needed, he had 4 double figure teammates and played almost every game that year. How many more double figure scoring teammates would've sufficed to win more than 33 fukking games?
Garnett is a touch overrated. We do a lot of finger pointing and skillset talking instead looking at what he did have and the results he pulled from it...
The two 20 point scorers KG played with that year were literally traded for each other. Both played less than half the season with the Wolves. They were also one dimensional/one-way players. The Grizzlies had an actual deep/balanced team. Suggesting it wad a Pau carry job is utterly ridiculous.fifth column
Superstar
For the same reason why the MJ documentary was so popular during the plandemic.How come this thread turned into another MJ/Bron debate while the actual videos thus far have been about Wilt, Miller and AI
murksiderock
Superstar
My brother, I've yet to see you EVER critique Mike's game. About anything. So you're the last person to call anyone else's analysis subjective, you've never been objective about Mike in any context...
If Bron and MJ switched careers, even if I felt LeBron was better, I wouldn't dismiss the comparison because Mike would have Bron's resume in a later, more advanced era vs sharper competition...
How old are you, family? You never call Mike "your" GOAT so hop off that high horse real quick...
You don't think Bron had the juice. Thats fine, you're entitled to your opinion. For me I saw all I needed to see thru 13 complete seasons...
KG had all these one dimensional teammates but '06 Pau was playing with Mike Miller, Chucky Atkins, Damon Stoudamire, Bobby Jackson, Shane Battier, there's a bunch of 2-way assassins right there
...This is what I mean, the throwback lens we give KG is what's caused him to be overrated. I'm not excusing 3 consecutive missed postseasons in your prime for a supposed Top 20 GOAT. You can do it. I'm not allowing that, and again, Garnett was playing damn near a full 82. That type of shyt warrants appropriate criticism when we're talking about where he lines up historically...
Where I do agree with you, is that he never lost a playoff series he was supposed to win, and he generally played well in the playoffs. No argument there, but we never got one, "put the squad on my back and pull the upset" run from KG, not once. We never got a truly legacy defining playoff run or series from KG, quick, what are his watershed playoff moments? He doesn't have any...
I have moments from Steph, and Wade, and Mo, and Chuck, and other All-Timers in KG's general range. That shyt is a bright red flag when you put him vs these other guys....
But I've always been more of a, gimme the results type guy, rather than "oohs" and "aahs" over "skill"...
GOAT
The bubble was fraudulent
My brother, I've yet to see you EVER critique Mike's game. About anything. So you're the last person to call anyone else's analysis subjective, you've never been objective about Mike in any context...
If Bron and MJ switched careers, even if I felt LeBron was better, I wouldn't dismiss the comparison because Mike would have Bron's resume in a later, more advanced era vs sharper competition...
How old are you, family? You never call Mike "your" GOAT so hop off that high horse real quick...
You don't think Bron had the juice. Thats fine, you're entitled to your opinion. For me I saw all I needed to see thru 13 complete seasons...
KG had all these one dimensional teammates but '06 Pau was playing with Mike Miller, Chucky Atkins, Damon Stoudamire, Bobby Jackson, Shane Battier, there's a bunch of 2-way assassins right there
This is what I mean, the throwback lens we give KG is what's caused him to be overrated. I'm not excusing 3 consecutive missed postseasons in your prime for a supposed Top 20 GOAT. You can do it. I'm not allowing that, and again, Garnett was playing damn near a full 82. That type of shyt warrants appropriate criticism when we're talking about where he lines up historically...
Where I do agree with you, is that he never lost a playoff series he was supposed to win, and he generally played well in the playoffs. No argument there, but we never got one, "put the squad on my back and pull the upset" run from KG, not once. We never got a truly legacy defining playoff run or series from KG, quick, what are his watershed playoff moments? He doesn't have any...
I have moments from Steph, and Wade, and Mo, and Chuck, and other All-Timers in KG's general range. That shyt is a bright red flag when you put him vs these other guys....
But I've always been more of a, gimme the results type guy, rather than "oohs" and "aahs" over "skill"...
You tried to say KG had two 20 point scorers not realizing one of them was traded for the other midseason. They were never with KG together. Pretty much exposing the fact that you didn't actually watch and are just guessing here.
Mike Miller, Damon Stoudemire, Shane Battier and Eddie Jones (who you left out) were quite literally multifaceted players. All of those players listed contributed to contending/championship teams at times throughout their careers. Ricky Davis was a losing player his whole career. They got rid of him ASAP in Cleveland so he couldn't corrupt a young Bron. He never contributed to winning anywhere. Wally Szcerbiak was never a contributor to winning apart from KG in his career. These are the "20 point scorers" who you're trying to suggest were on par with the multiple proven winning players on the Grizzlies.KG has one of the greatest Game 7 performances ever against the Kings. Took a hobbled team in '04 to the WCF averaging 24/15/5 with 2 blocks. Led the entire Playoffs in total points and rebounds that year. KG was literally the best player on both ends on a championship team in '08. Led the team in scoring and rebounding and anchored their historic defense in that run. . That is about as "legacy defining" as it gets. A top 3 MVP finish, a DPOY, and the best player on a championship team in one year. This was at the tail end of his prime too.
There is a reason much more knowledgeable people than you and I have KG ranked significantly higher than most. Because they don't just go off of unnuanced, casual narratives the like ones you've been arguing.
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murksiderock
Superstar
First of all, I was definitely watching basketball in 2006 but I also went to prison that year, so you gotta forgive me if my eyes and ears weren't glued to the TV the way maybe you were
KG has one of the greatest Game 7 performances ever against the Kings. Took a hobbled team in '04 to the WCF averaging 24/15/5 with 2 blocks. Led the entire Playoffs in total points and rebounds that year. KG was literally the best player on both ends on a championship team in '08. Led the team in scoring and rebounding and anchored their historic defense in that run. . That is about as "legacy defining" as it gets. A top 3 MVP finish, a DPOY, and the best player on a championship team in one year. This was at the tail end of his prime too.
There is a reason much smarter people than you and I have KG ranked significantly higher than most. Because they don't just go off of unnuanced, casual narratives the like ones you've been arguing.
. Alot of other shyt had my attention at that time...I'm also a staunch advocate of KG as the linchpin and best player on the '08 Celtics, so don't try that with me. You're missing my point, was that KG's best performances, aren't all that memorable. So I shouldn't have said he doesn't have "any" great moments, that's wrong on my part, but KG isn't a guy with a hit list of memorable playoff moments for most people. You can call that casual if that's what you choose to define it as, but I remember his career pretty clearly, and in real time while he was somewhat popular he was not viewed as this All-Time game breaking threat. He was viewed as an underrated great player forgotten in Minnesota. Not must see TV with must see performances...
Also you're moving the goalposts on an irrelevant talking point that you introduced, which was the "double figure scoring teammates". You can have this one though because the premise was off to start with
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GOAT
The bubble was fraudulent
So if your memory is foggy then don't try to say Gasol carried a team with similar talent to KG's when that is not even close to being the truth. Gasol had a much deeper, more skilled, better coached team and KG was better individually than Pau at every aspect of basketball. That was one of the worst arguments I've ever heard on this site.First of all, I was definitely watching basketball in 2006 but I also went to prison that year, so you gotta forgive me if my eyes and ears weren't glued to the TV the way maybe you were
I'm also a staunch advocate of KG as the linchpin and best player on the '08 Celtics, so don't try that with me. You're missing my point, was that KG's best performances, aren't all that memorable. So I shouldn't have said he doesn't have "any" great moments, that's wrong on my part, but KG isn't a guy with a hit list of memorable playoff moments for most people. You can call that casual if that's what you choose to define it as, but I remember his career pretty clearly, and in real time while he was somewhat popular he was not viewed as this All-Time game breaking threat. He was viewed as an underrated great player forgotten in Minnesota. Not must see TV with must see performances...
Also you're moving the goalposts on an irrelevant talking point that you introduced, which was the "double figure scoring teammates". You can have this one though because the premise was off to start with
Again, this is all casual generalities. "Not memorable". To who? Why does that even matter when we're talking about quality of basketball? Moses Malone's whole career seems to be forgotten in basketball discussions and that does not change the fact that he was one of the greatest ever. KG was absolutely viewed as an all time great during his career.
Bron referring to KG as the best player in the league in '04:
He was always one of the highest vote getters in ASG's in his prime. He was near the top in jersey sales. He absolutely wasn't viewed as some "forgotten player". That is a ridiculous take.
I brought up the amount players the Grizz had in double figures to illustrate their depth. I'd say it's pretty relevant when you're arguing the talent level of the team was similar to Minnesota's.
murksiderock
Superstar
Quote where you saw me say this, since this is obviously where you're going haywire at...
I can quote where I saw you say Gasol had "7-8" double-figure scoring teammates with a Hall Of Fame head coach, both of which is left of the truth, so you really want to discuss foggy memory? Or are you looking to win an argument about something that was never said?
GOAT
The bubble was fraudulent
You alluded to multiple years where the Grizzlies made the Playoffs initially. One of which was with HOF coach Hubie Brown. And multiple of which were teams with 7-8 double figure scorers. Not sure what's hard to understand about this.
You a few posts ago:
If this doesn't clearly imply that you were arguing the talent levels on those teams were similar, then I'm not sure why you'd even bring it up. It also implies that Pau "taking the Grizzlies into the Playoffs" was some carry job when many of those years he wasn't even an all star.fifth column
Superstar
Have you ever seen me criticize Lebron’s game? I don’t get into the busy work, espn gets paid for that. I only look at overall impact and the arching storylines from the greatest players eras.My brother, I've yet to see you EVER critique Mike's game. About anything. So you're the last person to call anyone else's analysis subjective, you've never been objective about Mike in any context...
If Bron and MJ switched careers, even if I felt LeBron was better, I wouldn't dismiss the comparison because Mike would have Bron's resume in a later, more advanced era vs sharper competition...
How old are you, family? You never call Mike "your" GOAT so hop off that high horse real quick...
You don't think Bron had the juice. Thats fine, you're entitled to your opinion. For me I saw all I needed to see thru 13 complete seasons...
KG had all these one dimensional teammates but '06 Pau was playing with Mike Miller, Chucky Atkins, Damon Stoudamire, Bobby Jackson, Shane Battier, there's a bunch of 2-way assassins right there
This is what I mean, the throwback lens we give KG is what's caused him to be overrated. I'm not excusing 3 consecutive missed postseasons in your prime for a supposed Top 20 GOAT. You can do it. I'm not allowing that, and again, Garnett was playing damn near a full 82. That type of shyt warrants appropriate criticism when we're talking about where he lines up historically...
Where I do agree with you, is that he never lost a playoff series he was supposed to win, and he generally played well in the playoffs. No argument there, but we never got one, "put the squad on my back and pull the upset" run from KG, not once. We never got a truly legacy defining playoff run or series from KG, quick, what are his watershed playoff moments? He doesn't have any...
I have moments from Steph, and Wade, and Mo, and Chuck, and other All-Timers in KG's general range. That shyt is a bright red flag when you put him vs these other guys....
But I've always been more of a, gimme the results type guy, rather than "oohs" and "aahs" over "skill"...
The only legit comparison for MJ vs Lebron to determine the goat is who dominated their era at their peak better. The answer is Mike 10/10 times. History is kindest to the greats who won championships and that’s why ya mans is trapped playing for 20+ years, he’s desperate for more chips.
Bigblackted4
Superstar
New video
Bigblackted4
Superstar
As far as passers it’s Magic and Nash and a big space and then probably Bron and Jokic
Bigblackted4
Superstar
Bump