Be African in South Africa brehs

[Apollo Creed]

 

[mbewane]

this is not entirely true,the rest of africa (zambia, zimbabwe, libya etc) protected and trained south african freedom fighters during apatheid, doors were open for those whose lives were in danger. as an example do you think people like hugh masekela and miriam makeba; musicians who spoke against apatheid, were exiled for many years without any help from black people? their time in exile helped to keep moral up for those back home etc but lets not even act like there were no immigrants in south africa during apatheid..i know a lot of zimbabweans, zambians, malawians and nigerians whose relatives have always lived in south africa.

You're talking about South Africans who LEFT the country. By definition, they will be more "open" than those who stay behind. I'm talking about non-South Africans who came TO South Africans. Two different things. I'm not saying neighbouring countries were not "open" to South Africans, I'm saying that SA was obviously less "open" during the apartheid era.

On the other hand, from what I've read, there were very few non South Africans Blacks during the apartheid days, and those who did go were (again, from what I read) were highly qualified, ie Doctors or Teachers, stuff like that. So no one that most local Blacks could see as competition. But maybe you have other more direct info than I do.

Nonetheless, I think it's safe to say tha there are more black immigrants now in SA than during the apartheid era, for reasons that I guess are obvious to everyone. It's not rocket science : more immigrants CAN lead to more xenophobia, and in this case it did. I don't understand why this seems to surprise some people here, it happens all the time all over the world.

 

[Matt504]

Biracial people being used as weapons against Black people.

One of the most evil and brilliant things white men did was impregnate the women of the people/nations they conquered.

 

[mbewane]

Biracial people being used as weapons against Black people.

One of the most evil and brilliant things white men did was impregnate the women of the people/nations they conquered.

That's what all conquerors do breh, the hell you think BH kidnapped those girls for

 

[lenfantdelacapitale]

You're talking about South Africans who LEFT the country. By definition, they will be more "open" than those who stay behind. I'm talking about non-South Africans who came TO South Africans. Two different things. I'm not saying neighbouring countries were not "open" to South Africans, I'm saying that SA was obviously less "open" during the apartheid era.

On the other hand, from what I've read, there were very few non South Africans Blacks during the apartheid days, and those who did go were (again, from what I read) were highly qualified, ie Doctors or Teachers, stuff like that. So no one that most local Blacks could see as competition. But maybe you have other more direct info than I do.

Nonetheless, I think it's safe to say tha there are more black immigrants now in SA than during the apartheid era, for reasons that I guess are obvious to everyone. It's not rocket science : more immigrants CAN lead to more xenophobia, and in this case it did. I don't understand why this seems to surprise some people here, it happens all the time all over the world.

The distinction between those who LEFT and STAYED does not hold up in my opinion I am sure the current post-apartheid curriculum has to have a part where it mentions the importance of other African nations in the liberation movement. White people were responsible for the economic marginalization of South Africans which still has its effects today not Ifeanyi from Nigeria or Tresor from DRC. If the curriculum does not emphasize that then it should.

 

[Lakers Offseason]

From what I read it MAY (I'm in no way condoning it) come from actually being cut off from the rest of Africa for decades. As much as it was apartheid, South Africa has always been the most developped african country. So now with the end of apartheid, SOME Blacks can actually enjoy that level of development. And all of a sudden, you have immigrants coming in, with whom, remember, you have never had any contact for decades because of being shut off from the world.

So you're a more developped country + random foreigners setting up = xenophobia.

For some strange reason people are surprised when xenophobia comes from Africans but unfortunately it's human nature.

Heard from mother in law in SA, she said black South Africans started to show xenophobia right off the bat after apartheid fell.

They look at other black Africans, many of who go to SA without any trade or skill and live in squatter camps, as a burden.

 

[Matt504]

That's what all conquerors do breh, the hell you think BH kidnapped those girls for

That's a false equivalency, even if BH kidnapped those girls for sex to impregnate them, the offspring would still be Black.

 

[mbewane]

The distinction between those who LEFT and STAYED does not hold up in my opinion I am sure the current post-apartheid curriculum has to have a part where it mentions the importance of other African nations in the liberation movement. White people were responsible for the economic marginalization of South Africans which still has its effects today not Ifeanyi from Nigeria or Tresor from DRC. If the curriculum does not emphasize that then it should.

Breh, have you ever studied migration?

Anyway this is not about SA who left or who stayed, but about immigrants going to SA. Whether or not SAs are informed about the support and importance of other African nations is kind of irrevelant : that was then, this is now. A simple rule in migration is that the oppressed/poor people of country A will turn against migrants of similar standing from countries B, wherever they come from and whatever history country B has with country A. You really think these brehs are opening history books to see whether or not their xenophobia is warranted?

Again, this is what happens everywhere, all the time.

 

[mbewane]

Heard from mother in law in SA, she said black South Africans started to show xenophobia right off the bat after apartheid fell.

They look at other black Africans, many of who go to SA without any trade or skill and live in squatter camps, as a burden.

This is exactly what I've read and heard too. It's really not surprising, every developped country shows the same traits.

That's a false equivalency, even if BH kidnapped those girls for sex to impregnate them, the offspring would still be Black.

I'm just saying, because your post sounded like White conquerors did something special/original/had a master plan. No, they were just looters who wanted to rape, like most conquerors.

 

[lenfantdelacapitale]

Breh, have you ever studied migration?

Anyway this is not about SA who left or who stayed, but about immigrants going to SA. Whether or not SAs are informed about the support and importance of other African nations is kind of irrevelant : that was then, this is now. A simple rule in migration is that the oppressed/poor people of country A will turn against migrants of similar standing from countries B, wherever they come from and whatever history country B has with country A. You really think these brehs are opening history books to see whether or not their xenophobia is warranted?

Again, this is what happens everywhere, all the time.

Yes it is surprising because MOST Black immigrants in SA are not in the same standings and are not fighting for the same resources if you want to get really technical getting residency papers in SA is DIFFICULT. Most of the immigrants are not a restraint on social services because they are either not documented (if you are not documented, you don't get shyt it ain't as generous as Europe) or WORK and not dependent on the welfare state. I have been to SA and have family there (My uncle's house was burned down in the 2008 xenophobic attacks and he was a physician) .

Most of the housekeepers and nanny jobs are taken by women from either Malawi or Zimbabwe not because they have beaten the South African competition, South Africans do not want to do those jobs. There might be a PERCEPTION that they are fighting for the same resources in reality they are not. The whole system is geared toward discouraging immigration even when it comes to highly skilled labor, they have a BEE (Black Economic Empowerment) policy which basically prioritizes Black South Africans in terms of hiring in corporations.

The moral of the story is that if you don't have papers in South Africa, you are done as an immigrant, you are not even competing for the social services that would benefit a poor South African citizen. If you do have papers, you are still in the back of the line because BEE prioritizes South Africans even over legal foreign nationals especially from other African countries. As a result, foreign nationals have taken the alternative route of entrepreneurship which has resulted in a lot of small kisk shops (spaza) that are being burned down. If the SOuth Africans wanted to compete, they could.

 

[mbewane]

Yes it is surprising because MOST Black immigrants in SA are not in the same standings and are not fighting for the same resources if you want to get really technical getting residency papers in SA is DIFFICULT. Most of the immigrants are not a restraint on social services because they are either not documented (if you are not documented, you don't get shyt it ain't as generous as Europe) or WORK and not dependent on the welfare state. I have been to SA and have family there. Most of the housekeepers and nanny jobs are taken by women from either Malawi or Zimbabwe.

Breh, that's cool and all, but you do know that in every single country of the world people are xenophobic against precisely the undocumented right? You're thinking a lil too rationnaly. Xenophobia is hate and fear, and PERCEIVED threath. In Europe extreme-right parties get huge scores in areas where people dont even SEE foreigners. It's irrational breh. As long as a "threath" is perceived, whether that threath is real or not becomes irrelevant. I think you're french (or french-speaking) so you must be familiar with "le sentiment d'insécurité" which has nothing to do with the actual level of "'insécurité". Same thing works with migrants : they probably (as in other countries) do very useful jobs and are indeed not a burden, but it's always more convenient to turn against foreigners to express any kind of frustration you may have.

 

[lenfantdelacapitale]

Breh, that's cool and all, but you do know that in every single country of the world people are xenophobic against precisely the undocumented right? You're thinking a lil too rationnaly. Xenophobia is hate and fear, and PERCEIVED threath. In Europe extreme-right parties get huge scores in areas where people dont even SEE foreigners. It's irrational breh. As long as a "threath" is perceived, whether that threath is real or not becomes irrelevant. I think you're french (or french-speaking) so you must be familiar with "le sentiment d'insécurité" which has nothing to do with the actual level of "'insécurité". Same thing works with migrants : they probably (as in other countries) do very useful jobs and are indeed not a burden, but it's always more convenient to turn against foreigners to express any kind of frustration you may have.

My point is that these attacks are surprising because there shouldn't even be a perception of threat because you always see foreigners play the background. It's similar to a bunch of Qataris attacking the East Asian population because they are taking over. That's how in the background most of the immigrant population is because the country has been successful in stifling mass immigration through their policies even lately.

 

[Lakers Offseason]

The moral of the story is that if you don't have papers in South Africa, you are done as an immigrant, you are not even competing for the social services that would benefit a poor South African citizen. If you do have papers, you are still in the back of the line because BEE prioritizes South Africans even over legal foreign nationals especially from other African countries. As a result, foreign nationals have taken the alternative route of entrepreneurship which has resulted in a lot of small kisk shops (spaza) that are being burned down. If the SOuth Africans wanted to compete, they could.

There are a lot of resentment from black South Africans who are unemployed and desperate who see foreign blacks set up these shops and make a living.

 

[lenfantdelacapitale]

There are a lot of resentment from black South Africans who are unemployed and desperate who see foreign blacks set up these shops and make a living.

That resentment is as irrational as it gets because (1) they could do the entrepreneurship thing if they wanted to and (2) they have the benefit of a social safety net

 

[mbewane]

My point is that these attacks are surprising because there shouldn't even be a perception of threat because you always see foreigners play the background. It's similar to a bunch of Qataris attacking the East Asian population because they are taking over. That's how in the background most of the immigrant population is because the country has been successful in stifling mass immigration through their policies even lately.

That's exactly my point breh. There shouldn't be but, obviously, there is.

Unlike you and others though, it does not surprise me one bit because, again, this is the same pattern that happens everywhere, all the time.