Avoiding Alimony & Child Support are the keys to success as a male..part 2

klientel

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The fact that she's still living means dude is a p*ssy and deserves to get raped in court
 

MikelArteta

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i was about to make this thread :smugfavre:

Child support is slavery

As far as I am concerned, child support as currently implemented in the US is true slavery.

I do not say this out of anger at being forced to support my biological children. My child support was tolerable and was paid to the last cent 20 years ago. I say that because of the specific child support laws passed, and their current implementation.

The original basis for men -- for it is mostly men who pay support; women have a much higher delinquency rate than men -- to be ordered to pay child support was an attempt to provide children with the same support they would receive if their parents were in a traditional marriage. I could argue that women who want the benefits for themselves or their children they had in marriage should stay married, but what do I know?

So, what does a child who lives in a traditional marriage receive from his father, by the law?

Food; clothing; housing; medical care; toys and luxuries as his parents decide, or not, as long as he is a minor child.

WHEN the father has the money. And, only to the degree he has the money If he has a lot, there may be a lot of goodies; if not, there may be used toys from Goodwill.

If the father becomes unemployed or disabled, the family cuts back wherever possible. Dad does not incur a debt for bicycles which were not purchased when he was unemployed. Dad does not incur debt for clothes which were not purchased while he was unemployed. Dad does not incur debt based on summer camps not attended while he was unemployed. Nor does he lose his driver's license or professional licenses nor does he go jail for his inability to pay.

And, he does not incur owed accrued interest on those things which were not bought. If he loses his job, the family cuts back; economizes; and does without until he gets back to work, or Mommy files for divorce in the modern AW style.

Also, once that kid becomes a legal adult, dad is not obliged to give him money nor provide an advanced education. Dad may have a valid reason he does not wish to pay for college, or he may simply not wish to do so. I chose not to help my Real Daughter go to college, though I love her more than life itself, because I felt she was a bit lazy, and thought the experience of working her way through would be good for her. I was right; it made an excellent adult out of her. And, no one could sue me and make my give her money to go to college.

It does not matter if all his neighbors choose to pay for their kids education. Majority practice does not become mandatory for all.

Also married men are never legally required to withhold support from one child so another child may live a good life based on some past time of life when things were going well. In fact, if he did, he could and would probably be charged with abuse or neglect.

Also, if a married man discovers a neighbor kid in his house, eating his food, he can send the little bugger home, instead of spending lots of money for his food.


The women of this nation -- and when one says she is not responsible, my tendency is to call her a liar, since virtually every women I have discussed this with agrees with every part of existing enforcment -- wanted the laws the way they are, in every detail. Contrary to well-meaning participants in this URL, no one has ever gained one insignicant change in current law by writing letters to legislators or judges, or by debating these issues. I don't mind if you try what was already tried, as akin to mental illness as that might be; it's your life.

Just as men who try to debate false rape charges is summarily called a rape denier, so any man who tries to point out serious flaws in child support laws is told, "But, the kiddies need the money" as if that justified any unconstitutional act or violation of personal rights one can think of.

The first thing one learns when studying current child support practice is that it isn't child support. Recipients aren't even legally obliged to use the money on the payor's kids. They can pop it into CD's or REIT and there is no recourse. Also, the money a man pays for his kids can be used for any kid by any man. Ditto on recourse. Child support is alimony conditional on the existence of children, and they do not even need to be the man's own kids.

Also, actually providing all the needs of a child is not counted as child support. I worked some years ago with a woman who married a divorced father. Shortly after the divorce, mommy gave him the kids. This new wife helped him completely raise the kids for the next 15 years. One day he gets notice, and is then told he has to pay mommy 15 years of back child support. The dearies specifically wrote that any actual support given shall not be counted as child support payment.

Whereas married men must only share the amount they actually earn, child support can be set anywhere a stupid judge or government official wants. Many a man has told the judge the amount ordered was greater than his actual income, and the judge shrugs and says, well rob banks, how you get it is not my problem.

Child support agencies also set imaginary amounts. This is called imputed income.

When a man is unemployed or disabled, in many places he must wait for six months before they adjust the amount owed. During that time he falls behind, then they take away his driver's license; professional licenses; and passport.

In the mid-80's when this mess was being developed, in my state a man who had falled behind on his support payments was given those kids by Mommy. CSRU said having those kids did not reduce the amount to be taken out of his weekly check to pay back his shortage. Since this mean he could not support those kids, he turned them over to the state, then killed himself.
 

MikelArteta

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Avoiding Single moms

Contrary to popular media-myth I have yet to meet a single mom who was career driven, carefree, balanced, happy; doing it all type gal as often portrayed in most media outlets. The reality I have seen over the years is usually a stressed out, overworked, debt stricken woman who really had no idea children cost so much in time, effort and money. Their careers are on hold as they need to balance their child with sickness, school activities etc... versus moving up whatever career ladder they are on. Most single moms are raising their children with help of an extended family member (usually their mom), a bevy of friends and other single moms they find in support groups. It is usually not a pretty picture at all.

Somewhere along the way, usually quite quickly they come up with the idea that they need a "partner" to help them in their new enterprise of having a child and the sooner they can get one the better. Realizing they have a bit of a disadvantage with having a child and being in the dating scene they resort to several well known strategies to get a partner.

One of the first strategies is to engage men who do not have children of their own. This allows the woman to portray the semblance of having and raising a kid is easy and there will always be a balance between their relationship with their partner and their child. Sometimes they will portray themselves as helpless victims, victimized by an evil and absent father they need saving and you can save them. Another popular scheme is to make themselves look accomplished and together by extending their debt to ridiculous levels to portray they are all right and don't really need a partner. There are quite a few more, but like I said, this is a rough guide.

One of the strategies is to involve the child with the prospective "partner" almost right away and foster a relationship between the man and her child. This allows a lot of leverage on several levels as time goes by. It allows for huge amount of guilt and shame if the man wants to break off the relationship, allows a bonding to take place that is hard to shuck off and other factors... You will hear phrases such as "any man who loves me must love my children!" etc...All designed to appeal to a mans sense of chivalry and protection. This hopefully facilitates a sense of belonging together and in the end marriage.

Most single men are unaware of what is going on when they start to date a single mom. It seems that the child is around, but it is pleasant, there is a clear distinction between adult and child time etc... it seems actually for most men, not a bad time at all. This allows the single mom to get the man closer and farther into the relationship.
What is really going on is a shyt-load of help from the single moms friends and other helpers. Tons of babysitting services, tips on dating, comparing notes and plans etc... No matter what you see as a man there is something else going on do not forget that. Her plan is to eventually get a partner one way or another. You are the prize and she is going to earn it.


One trait that seems to come to the forefront with most men who are dating single moms is just how wonderful a woman they really are. Most men cannot for the life of them figure out why another man would abandon a woman like her. It has been stated hat single moms are more caring, compassionate, great lovers, excellent cooks, laugh at all your jokes etc...they seem to be ideal mates.

What is actually going on is well planned and orchestrated strategies to get a man into a relationship. I don't know how many men have loudly complained that after marriage they were suddenly now doing most of the cooking, cleaning, and repairing around the house with zero time like they had before. I don't know how many have said it was like night and day after they moved in. The kind compassionate woman the men met had some how now been replaced by a truly different woman, it was like another personality type than the one they married. In short a single mom knows she has to work harder to get a man and she will work harder, but for many the act cannot last that long and the real woman reveals herself. Usually his occurs just after marriage.

A lot of men though go for it and involve themselves in marriage with a single mom and do not really know some of the problems they will encounter. Here is a short list of several common problems that begin to creep up:

1. Being a "partner" means you get to pay for half- if not more. I have noticed after marriage a single mom works at dizzying speed to make sure her mans name is on all of the bills. She also will usually demand money also for a huge amount of her child's expenses. It is also expressed as a part of "loving her and showing it". I have seen men putting money away for college for a kid that's not his. Buying ridiculous amounts of brand name clothes, expensive homes etc... all in an effort to be in a so-called "family".

2. The Family you just got into is by invitation only. In most traditional marriages that produce children, the man, woman and child or children make up he basic family unit. In being a step- parent you are not the basic unit. The mother and child together are the basic unit. You are invited in and can be un-invited whenever mom feels it to be so. No matter what is said or mentioned before marriage, you will never come before her child. You will always be in a family and relationship where you come second, maybe third.

3.No matter what you think... her ex is going to be there forever. In just about every case the child's father does not seem to be in the picture during the dating and courtship stage but seems to suddenly show up after. The reality is he was always there, your partner just never mentioned it.... The father will most naturally want to have a relationship with his child and he is going to be quite involved most of the time. Just about every time you will be dragged into the endless bickering and fights they have and you will not be liked by him...its only natural remember... also be sure to take into account the grandparents, uncles and aunts and all the family functions you will be attending with him, his child, his ex (your partner) and his side of the family. Get used to being uncomfortable.

4. Her kid will most likely not like you very much. Let's face it you're sleeping with their mom and most of the time the child will see you as a roadblock to his parents getting back together. Most likely the mom has made you the giver of discipline in the relationship, being the man and all...which results in the kid hating you. Or after watching the child run amok for weeks after you arrive you change juniors' schedule to include some discipline and then you also hated even more. An amazing amount of men involved with single mothers report how the child hates them, but he can keep buying gifts to try to win their affection. Some call it the ATM effect of diminishing returns.
 

MikelArteta

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5. All that time you had together with your new love will end after marriage. The number one job of a single mom is simply to be a mom. She is not a party girl, hiker, camper, biker, clubber etc... Just be prepared for a frontal assault on your time and money after marriage. You will find your weekdays taken up with homework, PTA meetings, suppers at home, and early bed times. Weekends will be the time for the child's extra-curricular activities and other activities. If a single man is wondering what happens ask any father of children how their time is spent, it will not be on hobbies. You will hear endlessly the phrase "we are a family now and this is what a family does" of course your idea on family will differ...but it is her family and she will make the choices.

6. You will wonder what happened to all your money. Most men involved with a single mom report that their money seems to dry up. Children are expensive- expensive like most men have no idea. Between school supplies, clothing, vast amounts of food, babysitters if you ever want to go out, medications, fees, sports, supplies, toys and such... well, there will be little left.
As a footnote there is also another ploy by some single moms that men also forget about. The child's father is paying for a lot of these things. Quite a few men have reported that their wife or girlfriend was getting them to pay for such things as sport fees, equipment, university funds, school supplies and such but at the same time getting the child's father to pay for these things also. Double billing, also called fraud, is quite common but it does allow the single mom to have almost zero expenses for her child as two men are now paying for junior....
Another ploy that is quite horrific was a man whose wife owned a home and he moved in with her and her child. Although he fixed it up, paid half the mortgage and expenses- she had willed the home to her children. When confronted she said since she would be dead she did not care if he had a home or not, her child came first. So be careful with matters of money. Very careful.

7. You will never really be accepted. I have observed time and time again the heartbreak of a step parent as the child gets older. After putting them through school, providing a place to live, food, getting the child all kinds of gifts and honestly really caring about the child and such I keep hearing this one story over and over. The time comes for a grad or a wedding, the step parent thinks he might be lauded for his sacrifices but instead is shunted to a back seat or not invited as the child invites mom and dad to the party...and thanks them for all their love and work. Usually there is not even an acknowledgement of effort.

8. . You will now be part of the single moms' network. Be prepared to help out all her buddies as they helped her out. Endless weekends and nights of babysitting the other single moms kids so that they too may date and get a man. You will also discover why 75% of all people in jail come from single mother households. Try not to have any expensive items around...

9. Now that the single mom is now married she will need to impress her single mom friends with her new found happiness. Her happiness will usually include a new home in a good neighbourhood, new clothing, new items for the home, new car etc... there is an unwritten law it seems among a lot of single moms that they compete ruthlessly with their friends. If she does get married she needs to show them her new found prestige. Be prepared for huge new expenses.

10. . You will have no time for errors. A lot of single men get involved with the single mom and her kids when the child is a bit older. Being inexperienced with children becomes a huge burden as the single man has no time to learn parenting skills...and mistakes are not readily forgiven nor forgotten when a kid is 4 compared to 14.

11. You may think it ends, but it never does. I know many men whose single mom wife promised them a completely different life after junior turned 18 or so. At the beginning of the relationship it looked like just a few years and then total privacy and freedom. Then years later they found out that junior is going to go to university for 6 years after taking a gap year off and not worry about a job as he will live at home. After that the story usually is that the child gets married and has kids and needs a ton of babysitting services. The dream of trips abroad, moving to a nicer place etc... evaporates for most men. They just wind up being early grandparents. The other option that happens a lot is the girls have children early and stay at home. Not only is the man taking care of his wife's child he also has to care for her grandchild now!

12.. You will have nothing to show for it. In the end when most men have their own children the work and effort is well worth it. The men did their best and raised a family, continued a line, get grandchildren...etc... As a step-parent you have contributed as much but you have nothing. Nobody carries on your name and most men realize they are not even ever thanked for their sacrifice.

13. The legalities can kill you. There have been numerous cases where a man has divorced or left a single mom and then found himself liable financially for her child. Although not the father he will be responsible for child payments, extra fees and most certainly university far after they are 18....check the laws out, it's a raw deal. Couple that with some alimony and you get the whole effect of being a divorced and homeless dad with not one child of your own....
In the end women have asked for their freedom to make their own choices now for decades. I would advise all single men to let single moms make their choice of having a child by themselves and then live with it. Don't involve yourself with these women under any circumstances. It can be in many ways, the death of a man.
 

MikelArteta

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Divorce

50% of American marriages end in divorce, and 70% of these divorces are initiated by women. Therefore, a marrying man has a 35% chance of having his wife leave him. All men should consult an attorney before marrying, and understand the implications of divorce, because they may participate in one whether they like it not.

Upon divorce, all assets accumulated during a marriage are subject to division. Even if the woman has not worked in years, and instead, has spent the last few years shopping and lunching from 7am-3pm, she is entitled to half of everything the man worked for during the course of the marriage. Is this fair? How many people would ever accept a job offer that stipulated that in the event of resignation, you would have to return 50% of every dime you were ever paid? No one in his or her right mind. Yet, men unknowingly agree to the exact same insanity when they sign their marriage contract!

"Assets accumulated prior to a marriage are exempt from a divorce." Yes, in theory. However, real life dictates otherwise. If funds from an account are commingled, it can become marital property. If even a dime from an account is spent towards the marriage, it can be considered marital property. Buy your child a lollypop from your own account, and a good lawyer will take 1/2 of it for your ex-wife when you divorce. If a woman moves into a home the man owned prior to the marriage, it is not safe from divorce. If she so much as hangs up a sheet of wallpaper, the home is now classified as marital property, and is subject to equal division. (Worse actually, the man can be ejected from the home.) Is this fair?

Note: "equal division" is also somewhat a misnomer. Often, she can get upwards of 70% of assets, while the man gets the majority of the debts!! This, of course, is his reward for working so hard all these years. He can afford it, she can't because she was not working.
 

Mook

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Steppops been with my mom since I was 5. He taught me how to drive and gave me my first car. Even paid for my trip to DR when my real pops wouldnt. That's my father and I love him :jawalrus:
 

MikelArteta

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Alimony horror stories

Retired man hit with alimony 27 years after divorce. Norfolk County.

In 2007, a retired 67-year-old man who is living on a pension from the city of Boston was
contacted by a lawyer on behalf of his ex-wife, from whom he was divorced 27 years
before. At the time of divorce, they both signed waivers: neither could collect alimony.
Now she was seeking alimony because she had squandered her resources – the home he
had left her and her own pension. He had personal debt of more than $30,000. In May
2008, he was ordered to pay her $312 a week – and pay her attorney’s fees. She now wants
half his pension. He is being forced to a trial at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars.
His new wife of 15 years lives on a pension from the phone company and is also forced to
contribute. He is threatened now with bankruptcy and jail, if he does not pay these bills,
and is physically and emotionally distraught. He now takes medication for depression and
elevated blood sugar, neither of which he suffered from before.

Businessman fallen on hard times in jail for 90-days, Sept. 8 – Dec. 7, 2008. Must pay
$900,000 alimony arrears


Before jail, his salary was $48,000 a year. While in jail his
company went out of business. Essex County.
A once wealthy businessman who must pay his ex-wife $200,000+ per year for life in their
no-fault divorce, saw that his investment business was failing in 2003 and alerted the exwife
to the decline in his income. He had to lay off two sons who worked for him. He
returned to court in 2003, hoping to reduce his alimony payments. This was denied. He
continued to pay what he could, sometimes $100,000 per year.
His able-bodied ex-wife, who divorced at age 47, has never been ordered to work and since
the divorce in 1995 has received $2.2 million in alimony.
In the judge’s final decision in 2008, he refused to lower the man’s payments, even though
his business had completely failed by 2007. The judge refused to accept the veracity of his
audited tax returns, showing that his income is now $48,000, although he was not charged
with tax fraud. The judge did not accept the testimony of his grown sons who had worked
for him, finding them “not credible” witnesses.


Once affluent 60 year-old OB-GYN who moved to the US from Asia in 1978 now lives
on welfare in a rented room paid for by his grown daughter, whom he sent to an Ivy
League school. Essex County.


A doctor husband and father of three daughters divorced because of irreconcilable
differences in 1997. Although she received more than half the marital assets, abundant
child support and alimony, and although she worked as a real estate broker, the extremely
vindictive ex-wife has systematically ruined his life, filing lawsuits against him for more
than 10 years.
Family courts have complied with her ever-increasing demands, even while he supported
her and their children, sending them to Ivy League colleges. He is now 60, suffering from
cancer, unemployed, and living on transitional public assistance of $177 a month. His
daughter pays the rent for the room he rents in Tewksbury. The summary of his case he
sent to Mass Alimony Reform is 10 pages long. He continues to have to appear in court
because his ex-wife’s legal actions. He cannot afford an attorney.
He writes: “All I had was taken away or confiscated. I have no IRA, no pension, no stock,
no property. Unemployed and sanctioned by DOR’s levy [Dept. of Revenue]. Except a
11+ years old car, I have nothing. ZERO, nothing.

80-year-old man afflicted with cancer and heart problems, living on ever-diminishing
investments in Florida, forced to pay alimony to ex-wife, a retired psychotherapist.


He writes: I am an 80-year-old man who was divorced in 1979 at my ex-wife’s wishes.
She moved out, with our children, in 1975.
I paid alimony and child support, sending our children to private college (including Ivy
League schools). They are all grown and married and/or have children today.
Prior to our separation, I supported my then-wife through graduate school. She became a
social worker, specializing in family therapy. She worked for an agency and then
maintained a private practice for about 25 years.
Since my child support ended, I have continued to pay alimony of $10,400 annually… If
the monthly check is ever late, she immediately calls.
Although I had a thriving leather tanning business for over 40 years, in the last decade it
went downhill due to shoe-manufacturing moving offshore to Asian countries. I was
unable to even sell my business.
Additionally, my health has declined. I have had a triple bypass, undergone two surgeries
for herniated disks and spinal stinosis, have uncontrolled diabetes, and have had a
pacemaker installed.
My second wife of 23 years has died, having suffered with lupus for the last 15 years of her
life. I remarried four years ago. My current wife has undergone cancer surgery.
Needless to say, my investments, which were meant to support me, are deteriorating
rapidly.
I think it is unconscionable for me to continue paying alimony at this stage of my life, for
the rest of my life.
 

ThaBoyBam

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