Athiests & Firm Believers In Evolution....Come Hither

[Dirty_Jerz]

huh? care to explain?

we are the only animals capable of these things that we know of so how could it exist before us?

 

[Robbie3000]

Read the article posted in this thread about Altruism. Humans have social tools to pressure group members into behaving in ways that are beneficial to the entire group. Individuals that conform to these rules naturally have a higher chance of reproducing than do anti-social individual. These beneficial traits are passed down the line. Human morality is evolutionary.

http://www.the-coli.com/higher-lear...st-takes-huge-shyt-ayn-rand.html#.UHb4r8W5N2A

 

[ExodusNirvana]

No i'm basically saying it would be impossible for someone to escape religious teachings because its been all around us for centuries, implicitly or explicitly. So of course atheists would have absorbed those teachings of good and evil, right from wrong etc. in some way or another...even if they weren't raised in the church.

Are you implying that religion predates humans making moral decisions??

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Obviously I have heard of DCT if I've heard of the Euthyphro dilemma. What makes the ED invalid exactly? There is nothing invalid about the form "either x or not x". In fact, it is necessarily true. And those are the only two choices, since I am partitioning the world into two sets. You have to tell me why this partition would result in a paradox, because I can't see what you are talking about.

There is no premise stating that 'either x or not-x' are the ONLY choices. This is why ED is invalid. It presents two options, but they are neither necessary nor inescapable.​

 

[mbewane]

I swear this comes up every now and then on some "Without religion there are no morals" bs.

First, let's the obvious out of the way: Religion itself doesn't follow its own set of morals. Thou shalt not kill was thrown in the bushes long time ago

Second, some of those morals are just common sense breh, you don't need religion to know that you should "Honor thy Father and Mother", "Not Steal" or "Commit adultery". Those are basic rules to live in any society lest you be ostracized.

Matter of fact I'll go as far as say that religion inspired itself from pre-existing morals in order to assert itself and gain power. Would've been counter-productive otherwise.

Brehs talkmbout "You don't kill because you learned morality from religion"

 

[151_Pr00f]

I think the implication is that without religion we would just be rampant with immorality and chaos because it's in our nature to do these things.

I propose that because of our highly evolved brains we are able to reason that certain things that we COULD do to others we do not do because we would not want that to occur to us. And then within certain people, certain actions hold more weight more than others, hence a person who can kill and be non-chalant about it.

This might come off petty and based on semantics but I don't think our brains are any more "highly" evolved than any other species, it's just that our wiring makes us unique in that it gives us the ability to intrinsically act altruistically although in more sophisticated ways than other animals. All animals look out for the members of their in group. The capacity for fairness and compassion wouldn't necessarily be based on logic though because sociopaths can behave very logically and rationally.

 

[Demon]

uhh....I get my morals from basic common sense doggie.

You know common sense right? The concept that religions and religious people will never be able to grasp.

 

[daze23]

we are the only animals capable of these things that we know of so how could it exist before us?

who says we are the only animals capable of these things?

and my question was if these things existed before religion, not "before us"

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Thou shalt not kill was thrown in the bushes long time ago

Actually, it wasn't. The word isn't 'kill' but 'murder'. Killing may or may not be a moral act. Murder ALWAYS is. Did we murder Osama bin Laden or did we kill him?

Religion itself doesn't follow its own set of morals.

How exactly does an ideology follow.......itself?​

 

[brick james]

For all the non religious people in here, isn't it obvious that all the morals from the bible came from already prevalent ideas at that time and place? That is why they were put into the bible by people of that time and place.

 

[daze23]

For all the non religious people in here, isn't it obvious that all the morals from the bible came from already prevalent ideas at that time and place? That is why they were put into the bible by people of that time and place.

why are you asking "non religious" people this question?

 

[Ghost Utmost]

Evolution is happening. G-d is the entire Universe.

There is no "believe in". It's either true or not.

Morality is mathematic: the best outcome for the most people.

 

[daze23]

why does my dog not attack me? does he have "morals"?

 

[mbewane]

Actually, it wasn't. The word isn't 'kill' but 'murder'. Killing may or may not be a moral act. Murder ALWAYS is. Did we murder Osama bin Laden or did we kill him?



How exactly does an ideology follow.......itself?​

First: I've never seen "Thou shalt not murder", only seen "Thou shalt not kill". You should update the Wikipedia page...I see that there are, quite convienently, three versions

Ten Commandments - Listed

Second I meant religious people, how you got "Holy wars" (Crusades) whne you're supposed to "Love Thy neighbour", turn the other cheek and all of that ...let's not even get into the whole discussion whether Native South Americans and African had souls or not

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

First: I've never seen "Thou shalt not murder", only seen "Thou shalt not kill". You should update the Wikipedia page...I see that there are, quite convienently, three versions

That has more to do with translating one language into another rather than 'convenience'. For instance, there is no Arabic word for 'compromise' AFAIK.

Second I meant religious people

That behavior isn't confined to religious people.
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