Are you really a feminist?

[Arishok]

oh stop it with the cliches. how is my scenario a fantasy? it happened earlier this year and late last year. you're the one coming with some fake scenario. if you're raped and have evidence, get a rape kit and prosecute;simple as that.

instead, most rape victims dont even tell anyone. then you blame "Rape culture" instead of your own cowardice.

I'm pretty sure rape victims don't tell anyone because they're scared and not because of rape culture. And my scenario was exactly the same as yours a drunk girl at a party flirting. And rape kits don't prove a rape occurred (unless the man beat her up) it only proves sex happened.

 

[marcuz]

I don't think that's the argument at hand - I think it's the immediate discrediting of the woman, even when she's been proven right, that influences the concept of there being a rape culture. At least, that's how I understand it. I'm not prepared to dismiss it outright. How many times has a woman been questioned after a sexual assault to the tune of "were you drunk? Were you wearing tight clothes?" etc etc. The insinuation that she was "asking for it" is perceived in an insidious way by a lot of women.

It is known that women lie about shyt like this, but it's hard to distinguish because a LOT of women have been sexually assaulted. I meet too many that it's happened to.

once again, should their words be taken as gold? because i dont think so. they need to be interrogated and questioned before the law proceeds to ruin the guys life. we see how white ffeminist are trying to change rape laws. if they feel a hint of remorse, its rape--and thats bullshyt to me. im not saying what they wore or drank should matter either, because it doesnt. im saying we do need a process that questions the womans version of events.

just like that jada chick from last year. she goes to an orgy, gets drunk, has sex with girls and boys. only for her to claim rape a month later after photos leak and her reputation is ruined.

 

[BedRoomI'z]

No

 

[marcuz]

My question is if women denounce feminism, what should we do instead? I never hear anything about that lol.

i'm not sure it would even matter since it's so ingrained in black culture. but it should replaced with a movement that fights for the rights of ALL blacks, not just one gender

because as I've stated, your race is oppressing you, not your gender

 

[PlainSight]

once again, should their words be taken as gold? because i dont think so. they need to be interrogated and questioned before the law proceeds to ruin the guys life. we see how white ffeminist are trying to change rape laws. if they feel a hint of remorse, its rape--and thats bullshyt to me. im not saying what they wore or drank should matter either, because it doesnt. im saying we do need a process that questions the womans version of events.

just like that jada chick from last year. she goes to an orgy, gets drunk, has sex with girls and boys. only for her to claim rape a month later after photos leak and her reputation is ruined.

That's fair. I guess the bone of contention on the part of women would be is the questioning in pursuit of justice or to discredit the woman? It's a tough ground - we're worried about ruining the guys life but if a woman's life has already been harmed by a rape, then tough interrogations and questions for a tentative issue doesn't bode well. It should be tough on all sides or tentative on all sides. You take into account the very real possibility that a woman has been raped and you act in lieu of that. Not to say the man is guilty until proven innocent, but women don't lie about sexual assault often enough to warrant not being taken seriously in the pursuit of justice in my humble opinion. That's just how I feel about it.

 

[thirdeye]

​

i'm not sure it would even matter since it's so ingrained in black culture. but it should replaced with a movement that fights for the rights of ALL blacks, not just one gender

because as I've stated, your race is oppressing you, not your gender

Is Feminism that ingrained in black culture though? Maybe I really do live a sheltered life because I don't see it having much of an influence around black ladies I know, I see it more ingrained with white ladies I talk to or are around.

 

[PlainSight]

Is Feminism that ingrained in black culture though? Maybe I really do live a sheltered life because I don't see it having much of an influence around black ladies I know, I see it more ingrained with white ladies I talk to or are around.

I reckon the argument will be because black culture is mainly "matriarchal" (i.e. men mostly raised by women/single mothers etc. no doubt attributed to feminism). I think it's not a farfetched conclusion to come to, although I don't think feminism has had that much to do with it personally. Black women have been working and doing stuff before feminism even became the force it is now. It makes sense that black women would become feminists - particularly if they're not traditional and less confined to traditional familial roles.

I don't see it being hard to fight for black rights AND be a feminist, but that's just me

 

[thirdeye]

I reckon the argument will be because black culture is mainly "matriarchal" (i.e. men mostly raised by women/single mothers etc. no doubt attributed to feminism). I think it's not a farfetched conclusion to come to, although I don't think feminism has had that much to do with it personally. Black women have been working and doing stuff before feminism even became the force it is now. It makes sense that black women would become feminists - particularly if they're not traditional and less confined to traditional familial roles.

I don't see it being hard to fight for black rights AND be a feminist, but that's just me

Ah. That's why I get confused when they call them black feminists. I'm a black woman that agrees with a few feminist grievances lol. I don't want to be labeled a black feminist. If we could do away with the fukking titles and get to the real issues that would be wonderful.

 

[PlainSight]

Ah. That's why I get confused when they call them black feminists. I'm a black woman that agrees with a few feminist grievances lol. I don't want to be labeled a black feminist. If we could do away with the fukking titles and get to the real issues that would be wonderful.

With a label comes a certain level of power and camaraderie with other people under that umbrella. It gets a bit fraught when it comes to an ideology. It's why I have never identified with one outright, regardless of the area. I'm not a feminist - but I'm not "patriarchal" either. I think everything has it's place, and that balance is the key.

 

[marcuz]

With a label comes a certain level of power and camaraderie with other people under that umbrella.

this is probably the most honest opinion in here. this is why i believe most BW are feminist, even if its to their detriment. that's why I've asked several times what feminism has done for black women in 30 yrs. there's such a hardline stance for a group that's inherently flawed and hasnt benefited the collective.

 

[PlainSight]

this is probably the most honest opinion in here. this is why i believe most BW are feminist, even if its to their detriment. that's why I've asked several times what feminism has done for black women in 30 yrs. there's such a hardline stance for a group that's inherently flawed and hasnt benefited the collective.

The reason why you haven't had an answer is because it's a somewhat loaded question. Feminism is an ideology based on gender that black women are increasingly adopting of late. So if I'm thinking objectively - it's not a case of what it has done, but rather what it can do. Most people who feel marginalized in some way are going to seek power of some kind by aligning themselves with a movement or an ideology with the requisite philosophy that adheres to the struggles they face. So if some black women are struggling with womanhood and how society relates to them as women, then naturally they're going to gravitate to something like feminism.

It doesn't mean that this should be in place of fighting for black issues - just that it's a priority to them as women. I guess if you frame feminism as a construct that actively prevents black excellence then that's a concept that is difficult to decipher.

 

[marcuz]

The reason why you haven't had an answer is because it's a somewhat loaded question. Feminism is an ideology based on gender that black women are increasingly adopting of late. So if I'm thinking objectively - it's not a case of what it has done, but rather what it can do. Most people who feel marginalized in some way are going to seek power of some kind by aligning themselves with a movement or an ideology with the requisite philosophy that adheres to the struggles they face. So if some black women are struggling with womanhood and how society relates to them as women, then naturally they're going to gravitate to something like feminism.

It doesn't mean that this should be in place of fighting for black issues - just that it's a priority to them as women. I guess if you frame feminism as a construct that actively prevents black excellence then that's a concept that is difficult to decipher.

okay, then i'll reframe my question. what can black feminism(or womanism) do for black women?

it wont stop rape. wont end domestic abuse. wont stop racism/white supremacy. wont solve poverty. what can this ideology do for BW that couldnt do in the last 30 yrs? or better yet, how?

 

[PlainSight]

okay, then i'll reframe my question. what can black feminism(or womanism) do for black women?

it wont stop rape. wont end domestic abuse. wont stop racism/white supremacy. wont solve poverty. what can this ideology do for BW that couldnt do in the last 30 yrs? or better yet, how?

I can't really answer that definitively because I'm not a feminist, but I'm guessing less objectification, less sexism, a reduction in domestic abuse (we know that it won't necessarily "end" per se"), less slut-shaming (debatable), and less marginalization for stepping outside of cultural/traditional norms.

It's not in a vacuum of course, and there will be other issues that matter more in the grand scheme, but it matters to them as women. I can't overstand it because I'm not a woman.

 

[thirdeye]

I can't really answer that definitively because I'm not a feminist, but I'm guessing less objectification, less sexism, a reduction in domestic abuse (we know that it won't necessarily "end" per se"), less slut-shaming (debatable), and less marginalization for stepping outside of cultural/traditional norms.

It's not in a vacuum of course, and there will be other issues that matter more in the grand scheme, but it matters to them as women. I can't overstand it because I'm not a woman.

Honestly, I want equal wages, programs in place to properly handle rape/date rape, maybe more female diversity within careers that aren't women occupied, leaving our repro rights alone. That's basically it. Does that make me a feminist? I don't think so, aren't these things all humans should be okay with improving on? Yes.

 

[ExpensiveThrillz]

I agree. I think men bark because then they have to actually do the work of redefining masculinity outside of the current paradigm. Or even defining it at all for themselves . And that is without race attached because that brings a whole another set of problems.

Sidenote: Is it possible that if black men actually supported black women's gender struggle (I'm not calling it feminism or womanism), we could move together on the race front? Like if I can say as a women I have these problems but "hey being black ADDS to that" and my men can ALSO speak to that. Just a thought.

I absolutely believe that yes, if black men better supported black women's gender struggles that we could all move forward with the collective struggles as a race. It's beyond offensive to see this particular black man in here blatantly missing the point and trying to pit BW versus BM as if our separate gender related issues some how don't add up to holding us ALL back. This line of thinking is certainly not exclusive to support for black women alone either. People of color who are really about uplifting their entire race understand that both genders are 100% valuable and should be upheld to know that their kingship and queenship is a symbiotic relationship. Grown folks should also be able to easily identify or at the very least empathize with gender specific issues too. It's not some novel idea that women suffer in a particular way that males will not ever have to experience simply based off of biology. This is not a contest...just a statement of fact. Same deal for male specific issues...women cannot ignore or erase unique struggles that only males experience simply to justify or further our own movement. We are not the exact same but in our difference lies the solid foundation where our likeness can stand. I cannot fully prosper if my black brothers are't just as they can't flourish when us black women are not fully watered. Very simple arithmetic as far as I'm concerned.

These are not my own words...but I've quoted a good example (imo) of what black feminism is and why it's needed:

Black Feminism is merely an effort, coping mechanism, and tool to be utilized by Black women who are racially oppressed within the Women's Movement, and sexually oppressed within the Black Liberation Movement, as well as within the patriarchal system of the Black community, which simply mimics the sexist ideas of the larger society.