Apparently the First Holocaust was in Namibia/Southwest Africa in 1904 by the Germans

mbewane

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Of course, Namibia was the blueprint and happened long before Nazis even existed. The whole emphasis on WW2 and the Holocaust is extremely eurocentric and the outrage only happens because Germans did to Euros what Euros were doing for centuries to other populations. I believe Fanon said this, or maybe Césaire. None of this is surprising if you study colonialism.
 

qwasi

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Yet the Coli Passport Savants and Military Squadron won't forget to remind you about Germans women love for them. The same group will argue for separatism. Ignoring that the atrocities which America exercised on them were perfected by their European siblings. Its going to be my life work to ensure African Reparations are achieved OR in the very least spark the minds who will attain in.
 

mbewane

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Yet the Coli Passport Savants and Military Squadron won't forget to remind you about Germans women love for them. The same group will argue for separatism. Ignoring that the atrocities which America exercised on them were perfected by their European siblings. Its going to be my life work to ensure African Reparations are achieved OR in the very least spark the minds who will attain in.

Negrophilia and negrophobia are the two sides of the same coin. Unfortunately many don't see it for what it is. Lust for "exotic" women by white men is well documented, but the same happens with white women.
 
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Shogun

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Of course, Namibia was the blueprint and happened long before Nazis even existed. The whole emphasis on WW2 and the Holocaust is extremely eurocentric and the outrage only happens because Germans did to Euros what Euros were doing for centuries to other populations. I believe Fanon said this, or maybe Césaire. None of this is surprising if you study colonialism.


Hitler was pretty honest in saying America was the blueprint...which furthers the point of this thread more...
 

JBoy

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poor Namibia than got to be a colony of South Africa for what 80 plus years after the war, till SWAMPO and Cuba helped drive them out (the South African Border war is a fascinating conflict that doesn't really get a lot of attention even though it was a cold war conflict)
 

get these nets

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You're hearing this for the first time because of the control that the descendants of the 30s to 40s holocaust in Germany and Poland have on academia, book industry, and film/tv industries in America.

Instead of using their platforms to inform people of the multiple ethnic holocausts of the 19th and 20th centuries, they just care about theirs.

story from TODAY illustrates this point, once again


https://www.thecoli.com/threads/jew...-cancel-farrakhans-4th-of-july-speech.790175/
 

DoubleClutch

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This. In 6th grade we had to read the "Diary of Anne Frank" in my English class, we also read "Number the Stars" as well. When I think about it, I think we had a whole semester dedicated to the Holocaust.. I also had a couple holocaust projects to do as well. Africa wasn't even mentioned.



Long story short, the Dutch settled Cape Town as a "pit stop" in 1652 for their sailors looking to reach Asia by sailing around the coast of Southern Africa. Cape Town was just meant to be a refreshment station for Dutch India Company's fleet. However, the early settlers there saw the land was good and the weather was favourable so they decided to stay. To work their land, they enslaved some of the native Africans there (particularly the San), but not all of the different African nations would play ball e.g Zulus would go to war with them.

The white settlers (the Afrikaaners, offshoot of the Dutch) then brought in indentured servants (slaves) from India and the Malay region, hence the Indians in South Africa. Fast forward to the mid-1800s when Gold and Diamonds where found in central South Africa. News got back to Europe and there was a huge influx of White Europeans looking to make money. Mainly Brits, French and Germans. Capital from Britain was a driving force in the development of Johannesburg and the surrounding area as the Afrikaaners were more so pastoral. The UK brought the industry.

The Afrikaaners, however, wanted their own separate nation(s) and didn't take too kindly to the British influence due to their capital. The Afrikaaners and the Brits fought two wars, the first the Afrikaaners won, the 2nd the Brits won. In 1910(?) Britain united various territories and states in Southern Africa into the Union of South Africa which also administered what is present day Namibia.

Since there was a strong white population then, Europe and the developed world would still trade with South Africa and poured capital into the country. In the, 1960s the Afrikaaner national party came into power and began the policy of aparthied. The rest is history I glossed over some stuff but that's main the gist of it.

South Africa is definitely an interesting case in Africa. It was one of the few African nations to actually have a sizeable white settler colony (the weather played a part in this, South Africa has temperate, mild weather compared with the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa that's rather hot and humid)

I'd advise this book if you're interested on the subject. I read it before I took my trip there and it was pretty enlightening. A good history book but written like a novel so it's easy to read.

9781868423293.jpg

How do white people even manage to fight a war against each other in Africa for African land? :beli:

At that point it was basically their country already:snoop:

How did the black Africans not have control of their own territories and their own government in place to claim it. Did Africans have no power or presence in their own country no states/cities/communities to even defend their land in the 1800s?

Was all this just unpopulated “free” land when white people showed up?

So before 1960s black South Africans we’re still “slaves” or seen as less than human?

And we’re Indians still indentured servants or were they normal citizens who were immigrating to South Africa and building communities?

I’m gonna read that book. Thanks for the recommendation.

Also gotta go there one day and see/learn for myself :manny:
 

phcitywarrior

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See the bolded below for my response. Also, this map might help understand the Geography of things.


south-africa-political-map.gif

How do white people even manage to fight a war against each other in Africa for African land? :beli:

This was still the age of Empire so everything had to be taken by force. The Afrikaaners, who where the original European settlers, didn't want to live under the influence of the British Empire which had administration of the Cape Colony (took over from the Dutch in the early 1800's). There was also a mix of Calvinist beliefs in which the Afrikaaners felt South Africa was land ordained to them by God. When the British took over administration of the Cape Colony, equivalent to the Western Cape on the map, a large group of the Afrikaaners moved east towards Johannesburg and Kimberley. The like to live a simple pastoral, agriculture based life. Even until today, Afrikaaners own much of the agricultural land in South Africa

How did the black Africans not have control of their own territories and their own government in place to claim it. Did Africans have no power or presence in their own country no states/cities/communities to even defend their land in the 1800s?

The black South Africans did have their own governments and societies, but when push came to shove, the Europeans had better military equipment. The Zulus (centered around Durban) held their own very well against the British and Afrikaaners. Shaka Zulu built up the Zulu people to be one of the most feared groups in combat. However, there was a period of serious infighting (Mfecane) between the native African population in the early 1800s to mid 1800s that really decimated their numbers and allowed the white settlers gain a hold of more of the "unclaimed" land.

Was all this just unpopulated “free” land when white people showed up?

Kinda sorta. The African populations living in the area at the time were also somewhat nomadic, so there weren't clear cut lines and regions. Of course there were some groups with better defined territories e.g. the Zulu with Zululand, the Sotho people in what is now modern day Lesotho (enclave within South Africa)

So before 1960s black South Africans we’re still “slaves” or seen as less than human?

There weren't slaves but they didn't have equal access to society like the whites did. Similar to Jim Crow era.

And we’re Indians still indentured servants or were they normal citizens who were immigrating to South Africa and building communities?

The first batch of Indians that came to SA came as indentured servants, however, after time, they could buy their freedom and become full citizens. There was a later wave of migration of Indians to South Africa, particularly those who wanted the opportunity to better themselves in SA. Fun fact: Gandhi actually started his civil rights work in South Africa before returning to India.

I’m gonna read that book. Thanks for the recommendation.

Also gotta go there one day and see/learn for myself :manny:

Definitely go if you have a chance. It's a beautiful country with rich history, beautiful weather and great people. Can't wait till I go back again.
 

mbewane

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Hitler was pretty honest in saying America was the blueprint...which furthers the point of this thread more...

America indeed did, but the ideas that led to Nazism (pangermanism/nationalism, antisemitism, "scientific racism" ) were ingrained in Germany for centuries. And Namibia was the direct prelude to the Holocaust.
 

mbewane

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How do white people even manage to fight a war against each other in Africa for African land? :beli:

At that point it was basically their country already:snoop:

How did the black Africans not have control of their own territories and their own government in place to claim it. Did Africans have no power or presence in their own country no states/cities/communities to even defend their land in the 1800s?

Was all this just unpopulated “free” land when white people showed up?

So before 1960s black South Africans we’re still “slaves” or seen as less than human?

And we’re Indians still indentured servants or were they normal citizens who were immigrating to South Africa and building communities?

I’m gonna read that book. Thanks for the recommendation.

Also gotta go there one day and see/learn for myself :manny:

One really has to understand the difference in military force and industrial means. There's a reason why it was Euros invading Africa (and the rest of the world) and not vice-versa : it's not only politics and a will to impose oneself on the others, but also the capability to do so.
 
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The Dust King

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Lol dream on. Africans will have to outsmart them at their own game and compete like everyone else. They are never going to give their power away willingly and none of us should count on start, we need to outsmart them with wit.

quoted cuz this is super facts



It’s not a competition especially when Africans are concerned. The point is Africans all over suffered tremendously. The fact that we have any empathy for these people is beyond me.

1. it is a competition for THEM. we been winning so they got mad and like spoiled children smashed and destroyed everything

2. On January 12, they massacred more than 100 German men in the area of Okahandja, though sparing women and children

this is because we are not savages. they didnt spare our women and children.

thats real love right there
 
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DoubleClutch

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One really has to understand the difference in military force and industrial means. There's a reason why it was Euros invading Africa (and the rest of the world) and not vice-versa : it's not only politics and a will to impose oneself on the others, but also the capability to do so.

Maybe that’s because Africans didn’t really find a place they liked better than Africa when they traveled. Or they didn’t have a “will to impose oneself on others” if they did.

But anyways

I’m just wondering how the interactions go when whites arrive in South Africa and see Black people living there....

South Africans: “What are you doing here?”

Europeans: “We are here we want to live on this land and make business”

South Africans: “this is our country, you can’t have this land it’s ours. Go find another land”

Europeans: “no. We will go to war and take it”

Or was it: “let’s make an agreement” and turned into war?
 

HiphopRelated

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Maybe that’s because Africans didn’t really find a place they liked better than Africa when they traveled. Or they didn’t have a “will to impose oneself on others” if they did.

But anyways

I’m just wondering how the interactions go when whites arrive in South Africa and see Black people living there....

South Africans: “What are you doing here?”

Europeans: “We are here we want to live on this land and make business”

South Africans: “this is our country, you can’t have this land it’s ours. Go find another land”

Europeans: “no. We will go to war and take it”

Or was it: “let’s make an agreement” and turned into war?
Imo, Africa already had everything, whereas Europe is a clusterfukk. You spend a thousand years fighting major wars, you gonna get good at killing. Europe traded with Africa for centuries, even before slavery. They didn't have the advantage in weaponry (everybody got bows and swords) and didn't have the disease advantage they had on the American natives so they stuck to the coast. It's not until the machine gun, anti malaria medicine, trains and steam ships that Europe went big dog status on Africa. A couple dudes with machine guns could lay down a village.

Basically the tech bump was quick and brutal. I mean they had China and India bowing down on the other side of the world at the same time. They was on some real life Game of Thrones shyt.
 
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