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Psalm 149:5-9
Yep, Homer said otherwise and kept it 100. The original Tim Wise.
Ancient Greeks and their History.. official thread.
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Yep, Homer said otherwise and kept it 100. The original Tim Wise.
The main point of contention is that many of the great Greek minds never cited their Egyptian teachers despite having learned nearly everything they knew from those same teachers. In time the narrative simply changed and they became Greek advancements of civilization rather than Egyptian contributions to civilization. This isn't to say Egyptians invented everything the Greeks are credited with like Democracy. However certain advancements in math, astronomy, and medicine for example were products of the Egyptian mysteries going back hundreds of years, but they were passed on as Western Greek innovations without them giving any credit to those who imparted that wisdom.
Honestly I think something like this deserves its own thread. Its better to just appreciate Greek culture for what it was.
Honestly I think something like this deserves its own thread. Its better to just appreciate Greek culture for what it was.
Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
IF THEY NEVER CITED THEM, HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY EVEN EXISTED, BROTHER? I'VE SEEN THIS CONVERSATION ON THE COLI BEFORE, DUDE! IT SEEMS TO GO LIKE THIS, MEAN GENE:
THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT EGYPT WAS AN ANCIENT SUPERPOWER, BUT ATTRIBUTING EVERY INNOVATION TO THEM IS REALLY AMATEUR HISTORY, BROTHER!
Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
I'M NOT EQUATING THEM AND YOU'RE EVADING THE POINT, JACK! LET'S TAKE PHILOSOPHY FOR EXAMPLE SINCE IT'S THE SUBJECT MOST CLOSELY LINKED WITH GREECE, BROTHER! IF THE GREEK PHILOSOPHERS REALLY GOT ALL OF THEIR IDEAS FROM EGYPTIANS, BUT THE EVIDENCE OF THIS THEFT WAS DESTROYED, THEN HOW DO YOU KNOW IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, DUDE? THE EGYPTIANS LEFT LITERALLY TONS OF WRITING AROUND, AND I'M UNFAMILIAR WITH ANY THAT MENTION THE KIND OF PHILOSOPHICAL WORK ASSOCIATED WITH SOCRATES, PLATO, OR ARISTOTLE, MEAN GENE! AND WHEN PEOPLE MENTION THAT CERTAIN GREEKS STUDIED IN EGYPT, I'VE NOTICED THEY TEND TO LEAVE OUT THE FACT THAT THIS HAPPENED AFTER GREECE HAD INVADED AND TAKEN OVER EGYPTIAN SOCIETY, BROTHER!
I wouldn't say they were burned. There were quotes from historians of the day pointing these things out. For example, "Pythagoras acquired in Egypt the science for which he is generally considered to be a scholar." - Iamblichus who was of course his biographer.( http://classicalastrologer.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/iamblichus-the-pythagorean-life-1.pdf pg. 6-10 discusses his time in Egypt a bit further.) This isn't to say that the Greek students actively sought to plagarize since out of all those legends of Western thought not one of them ever claimed these creations to be wholly theirs either. It was just teachings being passed on. The problem is the narrative having been changed following the rise of Europe we've lost the real story, its akin to how the Europeans snatched up all the African and Arab works of the day and used some of those advancements for their own conquests.
In the end none of us are historians and just buying into what someone else has told us. I prefer to find shyt with information i can interpret for myself. I've learned that the best way to do this is reading autobiographies. One i highly recommend is Severus Septimus which is about the first african 'cesar' of rome.
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Dafunkdoc_Unlimited
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Carter G. Hoodson said:
Don't waste your time reading it since it's mostly biased bullshyt.
For instance, he claims in the book that Aristotle 'stole' his philosophy from the Library of Alexandria.
The library wasn't built until AFTER Aristotle was dead, during the reign of either Ptolemy I or II when Egypt had already been conquered by Alexander the Great.
The Library was a Greek idea.
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Another great thread derailed needlessly.
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
The main problem with this argument is that people seem to think there is something wrong with stealing ideas
"Stealing" ideas is a good thing and humans need to do more of it
It's clear that the Greeks stole from the Egyptians and it's clear that they added their own knowledge, I'm not sure what there is to say beyond that except to say there is nothing wrong with stealing ideas
"Stealing" ideas is a good thing and humans need to do more of it
It's clear that the Greeks stole from the Egyptians and it's clear that they added their own knowledge, I'm not sure what there is to say beyond that except to say there is nothing wrong with stealing ideas
Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoras
IT'S EASY TO CHERRY-PICK WRITERS AND PIECES OF HISTORY THAT SUPPORT WHAT WE WISH TO BE TRUE, BROTHER! NO ONE DISPUTES THAT THE EGYPTIANS WERE A FASCINATING CULTURE, DUDE! BUT THE IDEA THAT GREECE STOLE ALL OF THEIR KNOWLEDGE FROM THEM IS AN UNSUPPORTED FRINGE THEORY, CLUNG TO BY SMALL-MINDED BIGOTS WITH LOW SELF ESTEEM, MEAN GENE!
Not to argue semantics but I'm not saying they stole "all" of their knowledge, just that a great deal of their knowledge came from Egypt since Egypt at the time had built the reputation of being the best teachers and scholars in the Ancient world. Understood, some people can take the whole misappropriation thing too far. All I'm saying is that the teachings they learned in Egypt were then taught in Greece simply for the reason of spreading knowledge. When Europe got their hands on the classics it was assumed they came up with certain things that were actually picked up in Egypt. Mathematics and Astronomy being chief among them.
Why does it always seem that the biggest moments in European culture comes after similar movements in other areas of the world that are not as highly lauded? Whether it be Greco-Roman culture being influenced by Eurasian and African civilizations without credit or The European Renaissance coming after the Islamic Golden Age? The Age of Enlightenment being built on a foundation of a foundation. Just weird.