Ancient Egyptians linked more with other Africans

Premeditated

MANDE KANG
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Especially when its been said multiple times that the Nubians and Egyptians were really the same people.
I think it's because it hasn't been embedded into their heads by the mainstream media enough. Just wait two years from now, when it becomes more and more acceptable, they're gonna be scratching and crawling just to prove that the Nubians were just another branch of super dark skin Caucasians.:laff:
 

Bawon Samedi

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I think it's because it hasn't been embedded into their heads by the mainstream media enough. Just wait two years from now, when it becomes more and more acceptable, they're gonna be scratching and crawling just to prove that the Nubians were just another branch of super dark skin Caucasians.:laff:

But they do know they're gonna have to claim these dudes too.
masai-people-collage1.jpg


AKA Nilotic people who the Egyptians/Nubians descend from, since they were cattle people like the Egyptians. The Nile Valley was populated by a mixture of African people some Nilotic and some Afro-Asiatic. Also all Africans are binded together via the PN2 clade. So in reality Euroclowns will have to claim ALL Africans to the claim the AE!!!!:mjlol::lolbron::russ:

First they'll have to claim the Nubians, then Nilotics, then Ethiopians and then even Khoisans of South Africa!!! Why?

Khoisan (Bushmen) carry PN2 (E) lineages associated with other Sub-Saharan Africans. In fact the form found among the Khwe is underived ancestral E1b1b!
E1b1b1.png


Not to mention the fact that most of the clades found among Khoisan are the oldest-- A and B clades-- which are also found among Pygmies, Ethiopians, and Sudanese peoples. To put it in simple words, Euroclowns try to separate Ethios from other Africans. Ethios carry high amounts of E1b1b1 yet Khoisans carry the ANCESTRAL CLADES! Which goes back to Euroclowns having to claim ALL Africans.

You get where I'm going with this?
 

Camile.Bidan

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LOL at using cranial measurements and other biotmetric information to infer the race of an Ancient Peoples.


I thought Race didn't Exist? I thought Race wasn't based on biology or science. Biometric racial analysis should mean absolutely nothing because it has no basis in science or reality.
 

Bawon Samedi

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LOL at using cranial measurements and other biotmetric information to infer the race of an Ancient Peoples.


I thought Race didn't Exist? I thought Race wasn't based on biology or science. Biometric racial analysis should mean absolutely nothing because it has no basis in science or reality.

When did I say race didn't exist? Stop with the projection/straw man. When I mean the Ancient Egyptians were black anyone with common sense can interpret that as meaning them resembling modern day black people, which studies all agree with. Yes "race" is obviously not used in anthropology, BUT my sources are still not denying that the Ancient Egyptians had closer links to other Africans. And I mean Africans that people call "black".
 

Premeditated

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LOL at using cranial measurements and other biotmetric information to infer the race of an Ancient Peoples.


I thought Race didn't Exist? I thought Race wasn't based on biology or science. Biometric racial analysis should mean absolutely nothing because it has no basis in science or reality.
so what about all the other evidence he provided?:sasahh:

do you take issues with does too?

what race or better yet, which group of people do you think are closer to AEs?:c00nj:

Us inquiry minds want to know.:sasahh:
 

Camile.Bidan

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so what about all the other evidence he provided?:sasahh:

do you take issues with does too?

what race or better yet, which group of people do you think are closer to AEs?:c00nj:

Us inquiry minds want to know.:sasahh:



I don't think that ancient egyptians were "Super" Negroes. In fact, I think the egyptian society was probably started by Eurasians mixing and mingling with Native Africans.

Too many staples of Egyptian society were imported from Eurasia. Horse and Carts are definitely central Asian in origin. Wheat Barley and Beer and definitely Central Asian in origin. The modern Day east African Genome shows a major Admixture event with Eurasians about 4 to 5 thousand years ago. I am not saying that there were no blacks in Ancient Egypt.

I post all the articles that I believe supported my theory in other thread, and I don't feel like reposting them.
 

Bawon Samedi

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I don't think that ancient egyptians were "Super" Negroes. In fact, I think the egyptian society was probably started by Eurasians mixing and mingling with Native Africans.
D you have any sources for this? Like I said the dynastic race theory has been debunked. Egyptian civilization was NOT started by Eurasians. It was kick started by Africans migrating North. Pharaonic culture was started in Upper Egypt(southern Egypt). Again sources? The delta during most of Egyptian history was sparsely populated.

Too many staples of Egyptian society were imported from Eurasia. Horse and Carts are definitely central Asian in origin. Wheat Barley and Beer and definitely Central Asian in origin.
The same can be said for the other way around(Afro-Asiatic). IIRC horses and carts didn't come until later. And based off of some studies/historical sources I read it was mostly Africans entering into the Levant and not the other way around. Again the delta was sparsely populated.

The modern Day east African Genome shows a major Admixture event with Eurasians about 4 to 5 thousand years ago. I am not saying that there were no blacks in Ancient Egypt.
What East Africans are you talking about? Because Somalis/Oromes(Ethiopians) are mostly African in admixture.
 

Camile.Bidan

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D you have any sources for this? Like I said the dynastic race theory has been debunked. Egyptian civilization was NOT started by Eurasians. It was kick started by Africans migrating North. Pharaonic culture was started in Upper Egypt(southern Egypt). Again sources? The delta during most of Egyptian history was sparsely populated.


The same can be said for the other way around(Afro-Asiatic). IIRC horses and carts didn't come until later. And based off of some studies/historical sources I read it was mostly Africans entering into the Levant and not the other way around. Again the delta was sparsely populated.


What East Africans are you talking about? Because Somalis/Oromes(Ethiopians) are mostly African in admixture.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24162011?dopt=Abstract

Apparent variation in Neanderthal admixture among African populations is consistent with gene flow from Non-African populations.


Abstract
Recent studies have found evidence of introgression from Neanderthals into modern humans outside of sub-Saharan Africa. Given the geographic range of Neanderthals, the findings have been interpreted as evidence of gene exchange between Neanderthals and modern humans descended from the Out-of-Africa (OOA) migration. Here, we examine an alternative interpretation in which the introgression occurred earlier within Africa, between ancestors or relatives of Neanderthals and a subset of African modern humans who were the ancestors of those involved in the OOA migration. Under the alternative model, if the population structure among present-day Africans predates the OOA migration, we might find some African populations show a signal of Neanderthal introgression whereas others do not. To test this alternative model, we compiled a whole-genome data set including 38 sub-Saharan Africans from eight populations and 25 non-African individuals from five populations. We assessed differences in the amount of Neanderthal-like single-nucleotide polymorphism alleles among these populations and observed up to 1.5% difference in the number of Neanderthal-like alleles among African populations. Further analyses suggest that these differences are likely due to recent non-African admixture in these populations. After accounting for recent non-African admixture, our results do not support the alternative model of older (e.g., >100 kya) admixture between modern humans and Neanderthal-like hominids within Africa.

KEYWORDS:
Neanderthal admixture, human evolution, whole-genome sequencing

http://arxiv.org/abs/1307.8014



Ancient west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa

Joseph K. Pickrell et al.

The history of southern Africa involved interactions between indigenous hunter-gatherers and a range of populations that moved into the region. Here we use genome-wide genetic data to show that there are at least two admixture events in the history of Khoisan populations (southern African hunter-gatherers and pastoralists who speak non-Bantu languages with click consonants). One involved populations related to Niger-Congo-speaking African populations, and the other introduced ancestry most closely related to west Eurasian (European or Middle Eastern) populations. We date this latter admixture event to approximately 900-1,800 years ago, and show that it had the largest demographic impact in Khoisan populations that speak Khoe-Kwadi languages. A similar signal of west Eurasian ancestry is present throughout eastern Africa. In particular, we also find evidence for two admixture events in the history of Kenyan, Tanzanian, and Ethiopian populations, the earlier of which involved populations related to west Eurasians and which we date to approximately 2,700 - 3,300 years ago. We reconstruct the allele frequencies of the putative west Eurasian population in eastern Africa, and show that this population is a good proxy for the west Eurasian ancestry in southern Africa. The most parsimonious explanation for these findings is that west Eurasian ancestry entered southern Africa indirectly through eastern Africa.
 

Bawon Samedi

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"Ancient west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa"

First off what does that have to do with the Ancient Egyptians?

In the study they completely forgot about the ancient Ethiopian kingdom ruling, in the Middle East and abroad. Which likely facilitated a genetic bottleneck and drift from people who entered there and returned to the of Horn Africa, and spread from there to various places in Africa. Instead of the lie what these folks claim, to be.

AKSUM c. AD 100–700: TEACHERS’ NOTES


Introduction

Aksum was the name of a city and a kingdom which is essentially modern-day northern Ethiopia (Tigray province) and Eritrea. Research shows that Aksum was a major naval and trading power from the 1st to the 7th centuries AD. As a civilisation it had a profound impact upon the people of Egypt, southern Arabia, Europe and Asia, all of whom were visitors to its shores, and in some cases were residents. The peak of Aksum’s power came with the invasions into South Arabia in the 3rd, 4th and 6th centuries, and the invasion of Meroe around AD 320, which caused the final decline of the Kushyte kingdom.


Despite its power and reputation – it was described by a Persian writer as one of the four greatest powers in the world at the time – very little is known about it. Aksum had written scripts, but no histories or descriptions have been found to make this African civilisation come alive.

History
Not much is known of the history of Aksum, other than what can be gleaned from the inscriptions left by various kings on their achievements. Ezana, c. 321–360, is probably the
best known of the rulers, or at least the best at publicising himself, and he is credited with the introduction of Christianity, as well as waging campaigns to secure tribute and expand territory. It is known from inscriptions that at the time he came to the throne, Aksum ruled over much of modern Ethiopia, as well as the kingdom of Meroe to the north and most of South Arabia.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/pdf/KingdomOfAksum_TeachersNotes.pdf

axum-data-map.jpg


If Khoisans have Eurasian ancestry then why do they carry the oldest clades which originate in Africa? Makes no sense...
 

Camile.Bidan

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"Ancient west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa"

First off what does that have to do with the Ancient Egyptians?

In the study they completely forgot about the ancient Ethiopian kingdom ruling, in the Middle East and abroad. Which likely facilitated a genetic bottleneck and drift from people who entered there and returned to the of Horn Africa, and spread from there to various places in Africa. Instead of the lie what these folks claim, to be.

AKSUM c. AD 100–700: TEACHERS’ NOTES


Introduction



History

https://www.britishmuseum.org/pdf/KingdomOfAksum_TeachersNotes.pdf

axum-data-map.jpg


If Khoisans have Eurasian ancestry then why do they carry the oldest clades which originate in Africa? Makes no sense...
"Ancient west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa"

First off what does that have to do with the Ancient Egyptians?

In the study they completely forgot about the ancient Ethiopian kingdom ruling, in the Middle East and abroad. Which likely facilitated a genetic bottleneck and drift from people who entered there and returned to the of Horn Africa, and spread from there to various places in Africa. Instead of the lie what these folks claim, to be.

AKSUM c. AD 100–700: TEACHERS’ NOTES


Introduction



History

https://www.britishmuseum.org/pdf/KingdomOfAksum_TeachersNotes.pdf

axum-data-map.jpg


If Khoisans have Eurasian ancestry then why do they carry the oldest clades which originate in Africa? Makes no sense...




migration markers and autosomes are two different things
 

Bawon Samedi

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24162011?dopt=Abstract

Apparent variation in Neanderthal admixture among African populations is consistent with gene flow from Non-African populations.


Abstract
Recent studies have found evidence of introgression from Neanderthals into modern humans outside of sub-Saharan Africa. Given the geographic range of Neanderthals, the findings have been interpreted as evidence of gene exchange between Neanderthals and modern humans descended from the Out-of-Africa (OOA) migration. Here, we examine an alternative interpretation in which the introgression occurred earlier within Africa, between ancestors or relatives of Neanderthals and a subset of African modern humans who were the ancestors of those involved in the OOA migration. Under the alternative model, if the population structure among present-day Africans predates the OOA migration, we might find some African populations show a signal of Neanderthal introgression whereas others do not. To test this alternative model, we compiled a whole-genome data set including 38 sub-Saharan Africans from eight populations and 25 non-African individuals from five populations. We assessed differences in the amount of Neanderthal-like single-nucleotide polymorphism alleles among these populations and observed up to 1.5% difference in the number of Neanderthal-like alleles among African populations. Further analyses suggest that these differences are likely due to recent non-African admixture in these populations. After accounting for recent non-African admixture, our results do not support the alternative model of older (e.g., >100 kya) admixture between modern humans and Neanderthal-like hominids within Africa.

KEYWORDS:
Neanderthal admixture, human evolution, whole-genome sequencing

http://arxiv.org/abs/1307.8014

Again what does this have to do with the Ancient Egyptians? If I am reading your source correctly they say Neanderthal admixture could have appeared recently and not during pre-historic times. But how recently??? Again Axumite empire...It could have been long after the Ancient Egyptian civilization. So I don't understand how that has any play.

If we want to talk about admixture. Then I'll post this.
dnatribes.jpg

Source
http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf

Note that DNAtribes didn't really do anything...Hawass et al were the ones who actually obtained the STR values from the mummies. All DNA Tribes did was run this data through their software to determine population affinity.

JAMA study by Hawass.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185393

DNAtribes entered these values into their MLI
scorer to arrive at the conclusions above
shown in DNAtribes defined regions.

hawass2010f101.gif



Also...Back to DNAtribes...They note.

Discussion: Average MLI scores in Table 1 indicate the STR profiles of the Amarna mummies would be
most frequent in present day populations of several African regions: including the Southern African
(average MLI 326.94), African Great Lakes (average MLI 323.76), and Tropical West African (average
MLI 83.74) regions.

These regional matches do not necessarily indicate an exclusively African ancestry for the
Amarna pharaonic family.
However, results indicate these ancient individuals inherited some alleles that
today are more frequent in populations of Africa than in other parts of the world (such as D18S51=19 and
D21S11=34).


Also

Although results do not necessarily suggest exclusively African ancestry, geographical analysis
suggests ancestral links with neighboring populations in Africa for the studied pharaonic mummies. If
new data become available in the future, it might become possible to further clarify results and shed new
light on the relationships of ancient individuals to modern populations

There are two basic scenarios:
1 - Ancient Egyptians are recent migrants from Sub Saharan Africa....which really makes no sense.
or
2 - Ancient Egyptians developed in Situ North Africa but the AFRICAN genetic portion of THEIR ANCESTRY not only migrated into the Nile Valley but can also be found in Areas Below the Sahara. That is to say the Ancient African ancestors of SOME Ancient Egyptians have a deep connection with the ancient ancestors of some Modern Sub Saharan folk.
This portion of their ancestry has very little to do with Eurasians. This portion of their ancestry has very little to do with Neolithic farmers from the Levant that settled in Egypt. This portion of their ancestry is associated with an E1b1a Northern Origin, ancient presence in North Africa.....And the migration of African people whose ANCIENT autosomal profile seemed to match that of MODERN Sub Saharan Africans. This portion of their ancestry shows the deep connection with their Nilo-Saharan kin who's strongest remnant is now found in the "Great lakes" and southern Sudan. This portion of their ancestry is also associated with the local evolution E1b1b lineages from a Sub Saharan root. This makes sense.

Regardless of the fact that a high majority of Egyptians are of African Haplogroups A. B. and E.....and Matern Lineage L and M1. There will never be some primary Eurasian character of these mummies, ideas like this were discarded over 50 years ago. Nowadays nearly any Egyptologist notes a primarily local North East African origin for Egyptians....and like nearly all Africans this would stem from a Sub Saharan root. The Y-dna lineage and autosomal profile shows this to be very true. If the Ancient Egyptians were predominantly African even going up to the 18th dynasty what does that tell us of the origin of the civilization?​
 

Bawon Samedi

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migration markers and autosomes are two different things
I am very aware of that. The problem with your source is that they do not do into detail about how much admixture in the populations. And I already mentioned the Axumite empire most likely getting these West Eurasian admixture. Khoisan having Eurasian admixture is most likely due to close contact with Cushytes nomadic pastoralists and not wondering Eurasians.

Again what does this have to do with the Ancient Egyptians? East Africans like Ethiopians and Khoisans still link more with Africans then Eurasians.
 
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