Alexandria Ocasio Cortez - "Not All Dems Are The Same"

AnonymityX1000

AnonymityX1000

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Perfectson said:
Funny how you write that but everyone whose been my "opponent" on AoC and her ideas literally are now saying the same thing I've been saying for weeks.

That's the irony of the situation right now stop being puss .
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Who you talking about? Tag them please, unless you are just making shyt up. lol
 
Perfectson

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storyteller said:
My initial take on this, having followed AOC and other DSA thinkers enough to at least get some of the broader principles, is that it's likely in reference to underemployment and/or heavy reliance on employer based health insurance. I also got the sense reading through it, that the FDR Second Bill of Rights list was probably used to influence the concepts in the piece. The language is vague, my guess purposefully, to create a concept that is broadly accessible in spite of being extremely ambitious (and you can see the impact in the immediate co-signs and support it's garnered). But this is a case where asking the writers and sponsors for clarity is the only way to get any certainty on the answer...but just pulling context clues from influences and previous positions, that's my best guess.
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She could wipe her ass on a toilet paper and release and before anyone saw what was on it would cosign. 2nd several of her inexperienced pals are clout chasing along with her , so anything to get in the headlines .

I'm laughing at you dissecting one phrase when the resolution should have simply been clearer, she's had months to think about this and if this is any indication of the type of diligence we are going to get, she will be entrenched in failure. Don't worry I'll forget about you in a year to not rub your face in it
 
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wtfyomom

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storyteller said:
Not only that, he's either too stupid to have a conversation or completely disingenuous. Pay him no mind unless he gives you an opportunity to drop knowledge for others to read.
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yeah I realized after a few times conversing with him, i just see a few posters getting frustrated with him so I just try to tell them, dont get worked up over dude
 
storyteller

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wtfyomom said:
yeah I realized after a few times conversing with him, i just see a few posters getting frustrated with him so I just try to tell them, dont get worked up over dude
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Yeah my bad, I meant to co-sign you rather than address you. We gotta save some of these other cats time. This dude really just tried to come at me for dissecting a phrase in response to someone asking what the phrase meant :mjlol:
 
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storyteller said:
My initial take on this, having followed AOC and other DSA thinkers enough to at least get some of the broader principles, is that it's likely in reference to underemployment and/or heavy reliance on employer based health insurance. I also got the sense reading through it, that the FDR Second Bill of Rights list was probably used to influence the concepts in the piece. The language is vague, my guess purposefully, to create a concept that is broadly accessible in spite of being extremely ambitious (and you can see the impact in the immediate co-signs and support it's garnered). But this is a case where asking the writers and sponsors for clarity is the only way to get any certainty on the answer...but just pulling context clues from influences and previous positions, that's my best guess.
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Yeah, I think the Second Bill of Rights is a smart and realistic direction, but it does hinge on people actually working " in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation". I guess I just wouldn't be all that surprised if their position is that the requirement to work is some sort of oppression by "the man", and under their plan those that chose not to will receive "economic security", whatever that means. Frankly, with massive wealth redistribution I could even see the merits of such a society, but it seems a bridge too far when we're talking about a nation with wildly high wealth inequality and a serious problem with internal division.

That's one of my biggest questions for the current crop of America socialists - how do they reconcile the idea of communal cooperation with the racism and bigotry thats endemic to America. In other words, they'd have to view the Confederate Flag waving, MAGA hat wearing, racist morons of America as victims of economic oppression, and at the top of the list to be on the receiving end of these polices....I'm not really sure thats the case, though. You can't have a socialist society that works only for the "good" ones. It's all or nothing...
 
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Shogun said:
Yeah, I think the Second Bill of Rights is a smart and realistic direction, but it does hinge on people actually working " in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation". I guess I just wouldn't be all that surprised if their position is that the requirement to work is some sort of oppression by "the man", and under their plan those that chose not to will receive "economic security", whatever that means. Frankly, with massive wealth redistribution I could even see the merits of such a society, but it seems a bridge too far when we're talking about a nation with wildly high wealth inequality and a serious problem with internal division.
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It's requiring work that is exploitative that they have a problem with. It's a subtle but important difference to acknowledge, because it speaks to criticisms from Bernie and his ilk of corporations like Walmart who get away with paying poverty wages; make massive profits; and have a workforce that still requires government support just to survive (aka economic security). I get that the phrase is vague and could be defined any number of ways; but again, we have seen and heard enough from these people to give them the benefit of a more nuanced answer than that. I think the bold is reductionist to a fault, treating the phrasing as if it's thrown in without much depth of thought.

Shogun said:
That's one of my biggest questions for the current crop of America socialists - how do they reconcile the idea of communal cooperation with the the racism and bigotry thats endemic to America. In other words, they'd have to view the Confederate Flag waving, MAGA hat wearing, racist morons of America as victims of economic oppression, and at the top of list to be on the receiving end of these polices....I'm not really sure thats the case, though. You can't have a socialist society that works only for the "good" ones. It's all or nothing...
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My main reason for being philosophically closer to a social democrat is basically the cultural blockades that have been built in our society. Racism specifically but other factors as well (our brand of patriotism being so closely tied to military power, distrust of the government, etc). My hope on this is that enacting universal programs and addressing poverty across demographics will reduce the desperation and need to blame anybody...but I say hope because I'm completely agnostic that this will happen. When I see it occurring, I'll be more open to a full on Socialist view (or honestly, if I see a better explanation for how we resolve the issue you're describing here). For now, I'm a big fan of Worker Coops and experiments like Jackson but uncertain about how big of an expansion can be pulled off. I think that's why a lot of the policy prescriptions coming from a number of proponents of Democratic Socialism fall more toward Social Democratic ideas (Bernie of course being a good example). But that's speculation. I think the Black Socialists of America might be a good place to look or ask for a more nuanced take though, they deep dive on issues on twitter all the time and it's damn near always enlightening to me. I'm sure these sorts of potential problems have been thought of and discussed, but I haven't gone fishing for the answers as I've been a lot more focused on present policy goals over the long term strategy (which I think is always in danger of being more idealistic than pragmatic).
 
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