Africans accuse African Americans of "appropriating" their culture (legitimate criticism?)

[Lost1]

In this thread we do not realize that without the Blues there is no Jazz or Funk.

Posters tryna talk about the influence of Blues and African American music in general and
completely have no idea what they're talking about


Blues essentially split into R&B, Soul, Funk, Rock N'Roll, Jump Blues, Jazz etc.
it goes like this Blues ------> R&B/Rock N'Roll -----> Soul ----- > Funk ------> Hip Hop
or Blues ------> Jazz and from here Jazz can take on many forms
Blues + Jazz
Funk + Jazz
Hip Hop + Jazz
Soul + Jazz

This is a really simplified version but trust the Blues' influence cannot be overstated.
And as @Poitier stated it's clearly had a positive affect on African music helping to spawn Afrobeat and Highlife.

Can you simply explain why you think American blues spawned highlife

I mean the idea is just nonfactual but i'd like to read the explanation since you are yet another poster coming to support this idea that several of you guys seem to believe so strongly despite there being zero evidence for it

there's literally no blues connection except that some later highlife musicians started adding jazz to their music. it's like you guys don't understand how highlife actually started but are adamant about it being from blues

what was the blues (or jazz for that matter) in the music of the Kumasi Trio for example?

 

[Insensitive]

Can you simply explain why you think American blues spawned highlife

I mean the idea is just nonfactual but i'd like to read the explanation since you are yet another poster coming to support this idea that several of you guys seem to believe so strongly despite there being zero evidence for it

there's literally no blues connection except that some later highlife musicians started adding jazz to their music. it's like you guys don't understand how highlife actually started but are adamant about it being from blues

what was the blues (or jazz for that matter) in the music of the Kumasi Trio for example?

I never said it was the chief reason for those genres, I just said it helped to spawn them.
And I'm certain the influence African American music ultimately had on them showed
up in later artists.

I mean I watched the Fela Kuti Documentary and I've listened to his music and it is clear as day the influence
Soul and The Funk had on him and his creation of Afro Beat.
Since you're pretty adamant on the influence AA's didn't have do you care to offer anything to the contrary ?


For the record for some of these artists you've mentioned in here it's clear as day where they draw their sounds from.



Listening to it and it definitely sounds influenced by American R&B/Blues
Hell the scale he's improvising with sounds like a Minor Blues scale to me.
My ear could be wrong but I doubt it I've been teaching myself
blues guitar these past few months and I've been doing the scale day in and day out.


Good looks on dropping these artists by the way, I'm always open to expanding my knowledge so feel free to drop more artists.

nikka, the "Blues" don't stop. All African American music, including Rock and Roll, R&B, Soul, Jazz, Country, Hip Hop, Rap, Pop, everything; comes from the Blues. The Blues comes from Gospel music.

Whoa, I'd concede that Negro spirituals predate the Blues/Gospel which existed alongside
each other but I'm certain the Blues and Gospel were/are distinctly different from other.

With that said you're right if Blues doesn't exist none of these genres barring gospel come into existence.

 

[Lost1]

I never said it was the chief reason for those genres, I just said it helped to spawn them.
And I'm certain the influence African American music ultimately had on them showed
up in later artists.

I mean I watched the Fela Kuti Documentary and I've listened to his music and it is clear as day the influence
Soul and The Funk had on him and his creation of Afro Beat.
Since you're pretty adamant on the influence AA's didn't have do you care to offer anything to the contrary ?


For the record for some of these artists you've mentioned in here it's clear as day where they draw their sounds from.



Listening to it and it definitely sounds influenced by American R&B/Blues
Hell the scale he's improvising with sounds like a Minor Blues scale to me.
My ear could be wrong but I doubt it I've been teaching myself
blues guitar these past few months and I've been doing the scale day in and day out.


Good looks on dropping these artists by the way, I'm always open to expanding my knowledge so feel free to drop more artists.

The blues did not actually help to spawn highlife though. that it did not do that was my point

Fela Kuti was not a highlife performer. Also I didn't say Fela wasn't influenced by African American music.

I didn't mention Ali Farka Toure in the context of claiming he was not influenced by African American music. I believe he was actually but that's not why I brought him up. I just mentioned Toure as an example of someone I do not consider working in the genre of pop

if you like Toure's stuff you might like Boubacar Traoré or Toumani Diabaté

this is a song by Toumani Diabaté:




There's also Rokia Traoré (no relation to Boubacar, as far as I know):

this is a live performance (singing starts at the 1 minute mark) on acoustic guitar:

Rokia Traoré performs Ka Moun Kè - live session video

this is a pop song by her:

 

[Insensitive]

The blues did not actually help to spawn highlife though. that it did not do that was my point

Fela Kuti was not a highlife performer. Also I didn't say Fela wasn't influenced by African American music.

I didn't mention Ali Farka Toure in the context of claiming he was not influenced by African American music. I believe he was actually but that's not why I brought him up. I just mentioned Toure as an example of someone I do not consider working in the genre of pop

if you like Toure's stuff you might like Boubacar Traoré or Toumani Diabaté

this is a song by Toumani Diabaté:




There's also Rokia Traoré (no relation to Boubacar, as far as I know):

this is a live performance (singing starts at the 1 minute mark) on acoustic guitar:

Rokia Traoré performs Ka Moun Kè - live session video

this is a pop song by her:

I checked out some of the artists you mentioned and I think we can safely
say the earliest forms of High Life had no Blues or R&B influence especially
because R&B hadn't come into existence yet.

And again props for dropping more artists, I'm glad we can have this discussion.

 

[Lost1]

I checked out some of the artists you mentioned and I think we can safely
say the earliest forms of High Life had no Blues or R&B influence especially
because R&B hadn't come into existence yet.

And again props for dropping more artists, I'm glad we can have this discussion.

Thanks

if you haven't heard Tinariwen yet you may want to listen to some of their stuff as well

this is one of Rokia Traoré's albums that's online and which is my favorite album of her discography:



Dounia (the first song), Aimer (begins at 15:26), Kounandi (at 19:39), Tounka (at 29:38), and Tchamantché (at 32:43) are the best songs on there in my opinion

 

[Mr swag]

What about African on African crime?

 

[Budda]

Whats the point of this thread, 40 + pages based on what a few Africans on twitter think, what a stupid thread.

 

[Budda]

Igbo are often lighter than Sudanic West Africans because they're semi-bantu not because they have admx.

Semi bantu?

Explain more.

 

[Budda]

So I guess Africans have no culture because none of it is hot globally?

None of our culture is hot globally? LMAO.

You need a history lesson, first start with the origins of monotheistic religions.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

This post and the one above together only answers my question about what you think African music sounded like without alleged American R&B influence for one region and for one other country outside of that region. While I did say you should choose I was hoping you would do so in a way that settles the issue of why you guys keep claiming everything I posted is American blues or R&B based.

I gave you a breakdown of each sound

That song just sounds like a sparse chant type song. Some parts of the vocals reminds me of blues-work song chants. 3rd song is loaded with Jazz influences and the 4th song has R&B'ish/Funk stylings.

The post is mostly just a listing of information and apart from the info on ethiopia this post states that only one region of Africa used banjo-like instruments then links that region's music to American blues music created by African Americans

now this tells us what the roots of AA blues music are likely to be but I still don't see how this answers the other question I asked about why the posters here seemed to think every song I posted is blues or R&B based

I don't doubt that American blues created by African Americans might really be closely tied to griot or sahelian music.though

That post gives insight to to what each region of Africa's music sounded like before New World influences came in

Also wouldn't surprise me if that researcher quoted in your post suggesting the banjo is not indigenous to Africa is a european or a european descendant because some of them (though there are more objective ones) tend to go out of their way to promote the "negroes can't do anything on their own and borrow everything of even the slightest value that they have" narrative even though European and European based cultures are the biggest borrowers from cultures other than their own (when compared to everyone else on the planet) in all of human history in almost every field of human activity

The dude actually linked the lute instrus to Egypt and they spread in/around North Africa down, below the sahara

Since the "drum dominated" stuff is mentioned I'll state for the record that lutes and guitar like instruments had a wide distribution throughout Africa.

Guitar like instruments and lutes were found being used in other parts of Africa outside of the sahelian area in the nineteenth and twentieth century ethnologists and colonists and were seen and heard by people who had visited Africa even before that, well before colonisation. . .this is probably part of why the Harvard Dictionary of Music states that native string instruments are evenly distributed across the African continent

See above

 

[IllmaticDelta]

the main element in highlife music is the guitar. . later jazz additions to that are sometimes great when not overdone but its not somehow required for the music. . .jazz is not by any means a necessary component of highlife. People just started jazzing it up later after Western aerophone instruments became popular among musicians in Africa. . .

Highlifes brassy jazz infuence makes it distinct from palmwine

'Highlife is a real mirror of the 20th century in terms of music. There are a lot of different modern music forms that came out of this era, and highlife is one of them. It's a real mish-mash of everything,' said Miles, who has managed to capture a snapshot of the scene on Soundway's recent release, Ghana Special: Modern Highlife, Afro-Sounds and Ghanaian Blues 1968-81.

'The roots of highlife are a collage of music, from traditional African music to colonial marching band music, to hymn singing and church music. And as the century went on it absorbed different influences from around the world. So it's got a bit of jazz, a bit of swing, it's got a bit of blues, it's got a bit of Latin music. Then as things go on in the 1960s and 1970s you start hearing a bit of soul and a bit of funk slipping into certain highlife records.

From highlife to hiplife - a guide to Ghanaian music | Music, Pop and rock, African music, Features | reviews, guides, things to do, film - Time Out Accra

and most blues music is not really positive or upbeat lets not kid ourselves

You're thinking about the "sad" blues...Blues comes in many forms

the point is highlife is not from the blues

I never said it from Blues...I said it has a major Jazz component

the fact that the two styles of music have almost exactly the opposite general themes - one is mostly joyous festive and celebratory and the other mostly depressive and sad is just another aspect of how they're different

See above

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Ghana highlife music docu

Highlife @ 7:21

james brown @ 12:19

jazz (from a latter era than early swing) @ 19:17




palmwine



highlife



Read the high life part

 

[IllmaticDelta]

What is a "chant type song"

is that a musical phrase with a specific meaning?

Africans can't do "chant singing" (whatever exactly that is) without it being said to be derived from "blues work-chants"?

I don't get this kind of claim so explain that

the third and fourth songs are there because they are not R&B and pop (which was the original reason they were posted) not because they're supposed to be examples of music without funk or jazz influence. . .I never thought of jazz or funk as pop but maybe you do so there might be some miscommunication on this point that's making us not understand each other

Jazz (jazz is actually both pop and art music) and Funk are both pop music just as R&B. "Pop" isn't a distinct form of music, it's just short hand for "popular music" or non-roots/art type music.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

wait....I haven't read the update in this thread but are these dudes seriously claiming that Sahelian music are AA influence?

No, Afram music from the Blues angle has roots with Sahelian music but modern Upper West Africans/Sahelians/Tuaregs are taking from Blues music in their modern pop forms. For example

Songhoy Blues
That's how Songhoy Blues was born. "Songhoy" because Garba Touré, lead vocalist Aliou Touré and second guitarist Oumar Touré, although unrelated to each other – Touré is as common as Smith or Jones in northern Mali – all belong to the Songhoy people, one of the main ethnicities in the north. And "Blues" not only because northern Mali is the cradle of the blues and its music is often referred to as "the desert blues", but also because Garba and his mates are obsessed by that distant American cousin of their own blues. "My father used to make me listen to Jimi Hendrix. He's one of my idols. But I also listen BB King and John Lee Hooker a lot."

Music ban beaten by desert blues

 

[Samori Toure]

I gave you a breakdown of each sound





That post gives insight to to what each region of Africa's music sounded like before New World influences came in




The dude actually linked the lute instrus to Egypt and they spread in/around North Africa down, below the sahara





See above

I didn't read all of the posts leading up to the point about the Banjo. However, who is the dumb ass researcher that is claiming that the Banjo is not from Africa? Only a dumb ass White dude trying to rewrite history would even write some dumb shyt like that. It is well known that the instrument is from Africa and the Africans used it long before the arrival of the Europeans. In fact the first time that the Europeans ever saw the Banjo or Banjur is when the slaves showed them. Unbelievable.

Here is a quote from a White Bluegrass music source. Even they know where the Banjo is from:

"... The banjo, as we can begin to recognize it, was made by African slaves based on instruments that were indigenous to their parts of Africa. These early "banjos" were spread to the colonies of those countries engaged in the slave trade. Scholars have found that many of these instruments have names that are related to the modern word "banjo", such as "banjar", "banjil", "banza", "bangoe", "bangie", "banshaw". Some historians mention the diaries of Richard Jobson as the first record of the instrument.. While exploring the Gambra River in Africa in 1620 he recorded an instrument "...made of a great gourd and a neck, thereunto was fastened strings." The first mention of the name for these instruments in the Western Hemisphere is from Martinique in a document dated 1678. It mentions slave gatherings where an instrument called the "banza" is used. Further mentions are fairly frequent and documented. One such is quoted in Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians from a poem by an Englishman in the British West Indies in 1763: "Permit thy slaves to lead the choral dance/To the wild banshaw's melancholy sound/". The best known is probably that of Thomas Jefferson in 1781: "The instrument proper to them (i.e. the slaves) is the Banjar, which they brought hither from Africa... ."

History of the Banjo