How are you gonna empower the entire continent on renewables? Even the West hasn’t done that.
Only renewable source that can support mass industrialization at scale is nuclear, but we know the West ain’t letting African get that type of tech.
Africa must forgo gas exploration to avert climate disaster, warn experts
- Thread starter MischievousMonkey
- Start date
How are you gonna empower the entire continent on renewables? Even the West hasn’t done that.
Only renewable source that can support mass industrialization at scale is nuclear, but we know the West ain’t letting African get that type of tech.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
I'm not an expert but looking back at the horror stories of oil/gas exploration in Africa I'd like to think there's a better way. I read a story recently where a pretty large city is sinking due to drilling right now and I'm sure it's not a one off.
Maybe nuclear power could be a good placeholder until something more scalable is ready. That's a good negotiating point though you don't want us to do x so give us y.
At the end of the day what I would like to see avoided is Africa poisoning their people for centuries like the West did.
MischievousMonkey
Gor bu dëgër
What's preventing renewable energies from being a viable source for industrialization in Africa?
Why hasn't oil exploitation in Africa led to empowerment yet?
The West hasn't done that because it didn't see the benefits until recently, clean energy costs were high which is not the case anymore, and oil lobbying and climate deniers worked hard to stampede progress in that regard.
MischievousMonkey
Gor bu dëgër
So yall just won't read the article
Raphaello
All Star
When it comes to African economic development AFRICANS should be in the driver's seat. They lead, the west follows. They are in no position to be lecturing anyoneSo yall just won't read the article
MischievousMonkey
Gor bu dëgër
It's really not that long
I'm not an expert but looking back at the horror stories of oil/gas exploration in Africa I'd like to think there's a better way. I read a story recently where a pretty large city is sinking due to drilling right now and I'm sure it's not a one off.
Maybe nuclear power could be a good placeholder until something more scalable is ready. That's a good negotiating point though you don't want us to do x so give us y.
At the end of the day what I would like to see avoided is Africa poisoning their people for centuries like the West did.
Just because there have been oil spills in the past doesn’t mean African nations should abandon the vast energy resources beneath their feet. Just need to improve on safety and procedure. I mean haven’t there been oil spills here in the USA?
A rich empowered nation is better able to mitigate against the climate issues than a poor un-empowered one.
No serious development focused technocrat will say Africa should abandon fossil fuels, especially LNG which is “cleaner” than coal and crude oil. LNG is that “placeholder” energy source like you said hence why industry analysts call it the “bridge fuel”.
Renewables are not gonna power industrialization breh, not enough energy is being generated. I interned at a hydro energy firm back in college so I’m not just talking out my ass.
A medium sized hydro damn can produce say 10-20 MW of energy, a similar medium sized coal plan is producing say 300 MW of energy. It’s not comparable breh. That’s not even counting solar which produces less energy.
With Africa, solar, hydro, wind and biomass are feasiable with solar being the most feasible. Hydro you need a strong run of river to operate so you only have a few corridors to run it eg the Nile river. Solar is good for small retail and home consumption and it’s already being implemented across the continent. The mega solar farms that generate massive MWs require large amount of space and don’t generate energy 24/7. The largest solar farm in India is a little under half the size of the city of SF, so it’s a space intensive venture too. Renewables just cannot sustain heavy industry.
I’m a hude advocate for renewables in Africa. In some of the newer housing estates in Lagos Nigeria all the homes come with solar panels that charge batteries for when the power goes out. I think that is a very good application of renewables. But I will never advocate for dropping fossil fuels when Africa still needs to develop.
Conflating oil drilling and non-empowerment of Africans is faulty IMHO. That one is more so on government failure.
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Typical...European nations bootstrapped themselves on fossil fuels, now they want to hit the
when Africa wants to come up.
funny cacs destroyed the planet but africans MUST not do the same to enrich themselves huh???if the earth is doomed why do the cacs care now???
Feel like y'all didn't read the article. The only white person in the article who was talking about Africa was telling them to EXPLOIT their gas. All three folk quoted disagreeing with her were Africans.
Last week, Mary Robinson, a former president of Ireland, UN commissioner for human rights and UN climate envoy, stoked controversy when she backed an expansion, saying African countries should exploit their gas reserves.
Mohamed Adow, the director of the Power Shift Africa thinktank and 2020 winner of the Climate Breakthrough prize, said Robinson was wrong.
“For Africans to achieve the lives of dignity that energy access should bring, we cannot rely on the failed system of the last 200 years. We must leapfrog our thinking and make the investment into distributed renewable energy systems that won’t poison our rivers, pollute our air, choke our lungs and profit only a few,” he told the Guardian.
Making a distinction between voices from the west and those from Africa, he said: “Climate justice champions who actually live in Africa are very clear that we want access to energy for everyone – but equally we do not want to lock in climate catastrophe for everyone.”
He was joined by Nnimmo Bassey, the director of the Health of Mother Earth Foundation in Nigeria. “Decades of oil and gas extraction on the continent has fed foreign markets and only muddied the water, built violence, and left the people in the cold and in the dark,” he said, highlighting the experience of Nigeria, the Niger Delta and Mozambique, characterised by pollution and profiteering by a few while local people remained impoverished.
He accused political leaders of ignoring these concerns: “Sadly, African politicians acting as middlemen to transnational corporations are happy to parrot this song despite local resistance and the realities of ecocide in the fossil fuel fields.”
Omar Elmawi, a coordinator at the StopEACOP campaign in east Africa, said: “Decades after exploiting fossil fuels in Africa, we have yet to improve energy poverty and countries have continued to drown themselves in unsustainable loans taken because of the promise of fossil fuel revenues.
“Corporations registered in the global north have continued to benefit from these dirty fossil fuels in Africa and all we are left with are the impacts on our people, nature and the climate.”
Just gonna drop this here:
The study, “Global Mortality From Outdoor Fine Particle Pollution Generated by Fossil Fuel Combustion,” published in Environmental Research, is based on a groundbreaking analysis that enabled the researchers to directly attribute premature deaths from fine particulate pollution (PM 2.5) to fossil fuel combustion....
Key Takeaways
Original paper here: Global mortality from outdoor fine particle pollution generated by fossil fuel combustion: Results from GEOS-Chem
Basically, 99% of the world population is breathing above WHO-recommended particulate levels and its causing highly elevated rates of stroke, heart disease, lung cancer, and chronic respiratory disease, especially in developing/industrializing countries where pollution is worst (India/China).
Fossil fuel air pollution responsible for 1 in 5 deaths worldwide
02/09/2021 | Environmental Research
New research from Harvard University, in collaboration with the University of Birmingham, the University of Leicester and University College London, found that more than 8 million people died in 2018 from fossil fuel pollution, significantly higher than previous research suggested—meaning that air pollution from burning fossil fuels like coal and diesel was responsible for about 1 in 5 deaths worldwide.The study, “Global Mortality From Outdoor Fine Particle Pollution Generated by Fossil Fuel Combustion,” published in Environmental Research, is based on a groundbreaking analysis that enabled the researchers to directly attribute premature deaths from fine particulate pollution (PM 2.5) to fossil fuel combustion....
Key Takeaways
- Worldwide, air pollution from burning fossil fuels is responsible for about 1 in 5 deaths—roughly the population of New York City.
- In the United States 350,000 premature deaths are attributed to fossil fuel pollution. The states with the highest number of deaths per capita are PA, OH, MI, IN, KY, WV, IL, NJ, WI
- Transitioning from fossil fuels to renewable energy has immediate health benefits, including preventing premature deaths attributed to fossil fuel pollution.
- Exposure to particulate matter from fossil fuels accounted for 21.5% of total deaths in 2012, falling to 18% in 2018 due to tightening air quality measures in China
- In India, fossil fuel pollution was responsible for nearly 2.5 million people (aged over 14) in 2018; representing over 30% of total deaths in India among people over age 14
- Thousands of kids under age 5 die each year due to respiratory infections attributed to fossil fuel pollution
Original paper here: Global mortality from outdoor fine particle pollution generated by fossil fuel combustion: Results from GEOS-Chem
Basically, 99% of the world population is breathing above WHO-recommended particulate levels and its causing highly elevated rates of stroke, heart disease, lung cancer, and chronic respiratory disease, especially in developing/industrializing countries where pollution is worst (India/China).
If I told you that I did, can I still post that shyt here? If I told you that I went to a slum for a significant portion of my working life while I got major programs started up and lived without running water, without AC, without appliances, on jerry-rigged electricity, with daily blackouts, shytting in an outhouse, watching little kids in the hood I worked in die of respiratory disease, and got laid up with tropical diseases that you ain't even heard of, does that "qualify" me?
Kinda, but not really because at the end of the day, you know you’re an American. Worst comes to worst, you can come back to the USA and leave the plight.
You were a tourist in tough conditions. That wasn’t your day to day reality or future, respectfully.
You got great insight but this is one ima stand firm and say you don’t understand the gravity of. Even me, as a Nigerian that has lived in the West. I have some blinders to the real plight of my people.
Just fall back on this one my G. How is a man that has eaten 3 square meals gonna tell a man scrapping by for just one that he’s doing it wrong.
Again, you're basing that off of assumptions you making regarding someone's life you know very little about.
Who the fukk are you talking about? OP posted a rich white woman telling Africans to burn a lot of gas and 3 Africans clapping back on her and saying it's a bad idea. No one "scraping by for just one meal" is setting national energy policies. All I did was quote the Africans in the OP and then post an article about all the early death that fossil fuel burning is creating.
Should we hide that info? Should we hide the fact that kids in 3rd-world nations are seeing their lungs go to shyt from pollution? Cause that was my only independent contribution to the thread.
Is China's Pollution Poisoning Its Children?
Epidemiologists find molecular clues to air pollution's impact on youngsters
Children in Delhi have lungs of chain-smokers!
Delhi has turned into a pollution zone so deadly that children in the Capital have the lungs of chain-smokers, and all the associated respiratory ailments.
A Chinese Child’s Lung Cancer Is Linked to Pollution
An eight-year-old Chinese girl was diagnosed with lung cancer that has been attributed to pollution. It’s one more tragic case in the building evidence of how air quality can affect health.
www.nationalgeographic.com
‘Delhi kids have smaller lungs compared with children in US due to air pollution’
Smaller lungs mean poorer exercise capacity, and greater vulnerability to respiratory symptoms and diseases, says a recently released study
Pollution is one reason Guangzhou people’s lungs are turning black, warns expert
In Guangzhou, people’s lungs are turning black as early as their 40s, top Chinese lung expert Zhong Nanshan says.
www.scmp.com
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@Rhakim not gonna quote so as to not clog up this page, respectfully.
Should you let people know about lung damage et al from pollution, sure. But with the caveat that gov’t policy should advocate for economic development coupled with some environmental protections. Right now we Africans are getting neither.
It was your reality for longer than most posters but you could come back so it is kinda moot imo. You had a US passport, you had a get out of jail card. Those African citizens don’t have that luxury so the mental outlook is different. It’s similar to the ADOS rebuttals that at least we Africans have a home country we can return to, whereas the USA is the ADOS homeland they have to fight in to secure rights.
And I said what I said, anyone, African or non African that isn’t talking mass industrialization for Africa is cappin and should not be listened to. And renewables aren’t gonna enable that mass industrialization.
Fukk all that other noise, respectfully.
Should you let people know about lung damage et al from pollution, sure. But with the caveat that gov’t policy should advocate for economic development coupled with some environmental protections. Right now we Africans are getting neither.
It was your reality for longer than most posters but you could come back so it is kinda moot imo. You had a US passport, you had a get out of jail card. Those African citizens don’t have that luxury so the mental outlook is different. It’s similar to the ADOS rebuttals that at least we Africans have a home country we can return to, whereas the USA is the ADOS homeland they have to fight in to secure rights.
And I said what I said, anyone, African or non African that isn’t talking mass industrialization for Africa is cappin and should not be listened to. And renewables aren’t gonna enable that mass industrialization.
Fukk all that other noise, respectfully.