A Generation of American Men Give Up on College: ‘I Just Feel Lost

[dora_da_destroyer]

I don’t think it’s a trade off of extracurriculars. Unless they’re a traveling athlete or something it’s not compromising those things. And I’m talking more about a formal shadowing process. Like I remember summer programs that I participated in when in middle school that had us shadow certain professions for days. I have a friend who became a dentist because of that and I knew right away that I didn’t want to be involved in banking because of that. And work laws aren’t an issue. If you’re incorporating that sort of system then legislation reforming work laws would go with it.

We’re talking two different things. Shadow programs where you’re just following someone for a few days aren’t as in-depth as the experience you get working for a company or in a field. Shadowing works for stuff like doctor, dentist, realtor, etc where a couple days shows you what they do. it doesn’t work for nebulous accounting, marketing, finance, business development and host of other generic corporate roles - especially when these roles differ by industry (ie marketing at a CPG company is completely different than tech and those are completely different than marketing at a professional services firm)

 

[Wild self]

Yeah I think at this point considering college costs probably ain't coming down willingly.. a delay of 2 years would be for the best

Prices for tuition gotta be slashed by 70%

 

[MoneyTron]

You're overestimating the ability high schools have to influence kids.
Parent's are equally culpable, if not more. Their kids college acceptance is a status symbol for them.

Very underestimated part of this.

 

[ogc163]

This will continue to be the case, especially with the implicit and explicit criticisms thrown towards university prevalent in the Male youtube/reddit spaces.

The issue is that corporations and large govt institutions are still generally going to give preference to those who are college educated. Even if the college premium isn't as high as it was 20 years ago, it generally still exists within the hiring and promotion process.

Further, there are the social network aspects of going to college that these men will potentially be missing out on. So much of social network effects are built on the foundation of college education ALONG with skill/experience.

Thus, as long as networks along with nepotism plays a large role in powerful institutions not being college educated will hurt these men.

 

[MoneyTron]

what? That’s the whole reason we’re in this mess, outside of stem fields, college degrees don’t match 1:1 to career tracks. There’s nothing a company can ascertain about a college freshmen or sophomore (most of these years are filled with general requirement classes anyway) when they take them into summer internships that greatly differs from what a graduating HS student can offer.

I think its easier to build pipeline for your company starting with college kids than HS graduates. We can agree to disagree but I'll stand on that.

The government doesn’t have to incentivize then to do this, there are companies that do it now - I was in Inroads and had an internship prior to my freshmen year of college at Procter & Gamble. The only incentive needed is more kids showing a preference for 1-2 years of internships/fellowships prior to college enrollment. Gap years aren’t common in the US, whereas places like Australia take them frequently, it’s just a cultural shift that needs to happen

On a large scale serving millions of graduating kids? I definitely think they would. They are the only ones that would be able to drive the behavioral change in business and education on the scale that you're asking for.

 

[No1]

We’re talking two different things. Shadow programs where you’re just following someone for a few days aren’t as in-depth as the experience you get working for a company or in a field. Shadowing works for stuff like doctor, dentist, realtor, etc where a couple days shows you what they do. it doesn’t work for nebulous accounting, marketing, finance, business development and host of other generic corporate roles - especially when these roles differ by industry (ie marketing at a CPG company is completely different than tech and those are completely different than marketing at a professional services firm)

We’re not. I’m just using that as an example for your maturity point. I was using it as an example because we’re talking about a summer program. If kids can handle that then I don’t see how high schoolers couldn’t. Like I know people who had summer long paid internships in high school in various fields. Like you said, it’s why they come in knowing what they want to do based on family networks. I’m pushing back on your notion of taking 2 to 4 years off. I agree with sim who said once you that it’s going to be much harder to get someone to go back to school.

 

[Wild self]

All facts

but to address some of the stuff from those tweets

The most lucrative majors being dominated by men isn’t the main issue. It’s that the most lucrative majors are the hardest degrees to earn. Complex math and medical fields, People don’t have the ability or Were not properly prepared to enter those majors

Social media grifters have polluted alot of peoples (young and old) expectations. A lot people are trying to make a living with crypto, YouTube and the internet

also, the rise of Amazon has created tens of thousands of jobs that pay well all across the country

I have a cousin that had a full scholarship, drop out to go work at Amazon

When people in TLR say "STEM or die" are not taking into consideration how these super-complex profession were historically held on by very few people in ANY society. Telling the non-white male to do that by the tens of millions, is an unrealistic idea when their schooling has been crazy underwhelming due to underfunded public schools.

Generation Z men (and WOMEN) are tapping out of college and tapping out of the workforce altogether.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

I think its easier to build pipeline for your company starting with college kids than HS graduates. We can agree to disagree but I'll stand on that.



On a large scale serving millions of graduating kids? I definitely think they would. They are the only ones that would be able to drive the behavioral change in business and education on the scale that you're asking for.

i disagree, especially given most internships aren't about building pipeline into your company outside of those in grad school and seniors in college, kids jump around from companies semester to semester and summer to summer. i also came thru a corporate internship program that accepted HS seniors, there's nothing i would've done or accomplished my frosh year of college to have made me standout more for that role than what i did in HS.

lastly, our push to college came from a society that was seeing more benefits from college for its grads - while a HS graduate boomer could get a great job at a factory, a college grad boomer who got a corporate job was able to live the suburban dream - the push was organic that then created the narratives in school. furthermore, making it more common to delay college doesn't mean i think it should be mandatory, there will still be millions of kids who want to go straight through to get done faster as well as the kids who know exactly what they want to do and don't need the time off.

 

[GunRanger]

This all begins in k-12 and how restrictive the style of teachers are, which make boys hate school to begin with

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

We’re not. I’m just using that as an example for your maturity point. I was using it as an example because we’re talking about a summer program. If kids can handle that then I don’t see how high schoolers couldn’t. Like I know people who had summer long paid internships in high school in various fields. Like you said, it’s why they come in knowing what they want to do based on family networks. I’m pushing back on your notion of taking 2 to 4 years off. I agree with sim who said once you that it’s going to be much harder to get someone to go back to school.

again, shadowing isn't working FT in a company. those professional paid HS internships tend to go to the most privileged and focused kids...i dont know anyone who i grew up with who had a real internship in the summer in HS, we went to summer programs, played sports or got PT jobs at old navy and gap, i do however know wealthy/top private school kids who i met in college who had professional internships their summer before sr year of HS - mostly thru informal connections.

taking time between college and HS only becomes an issue for those on the fringe who might fall into seeking full-time work because they need money, in which case maybe they should just go straight to college. if kids are using this to explore careers that require a degree, it's not like they'd be getting hire FT, they'd still need to complete school. and like i said to dio, i'm not proposing this as THE way we structure HS to college, i'm proposing we do more to make this a common alternative - we do not promote gap years and career exploration in this country, you're pushed to go straight to college, the military or work - gap years are seen as something the privileged or slackers take

 

[CrimsonTider]

This all begins in k-12 and how restrictive the style of teachers are, which make boys hate school to begin with

This is just an excuse

 

[GoldenGlove]

I'm not religious....and I know theres a thousand reasons to shyt on religion, but I'm starting to feel like people need to believe we have a purpose and maybe one of the reasons Americans seem to be getting more and more miserable is that we don't have one. I'm not saying religion is the only thing that could give people a purpose, but whatever our culture is selling doesnt seem to be getting the job done. I think its more than just college students that feel lost.

Life without a general purpose or even an objective is depressing as fukk... Just think about it.

 

[GoldenGlove]

The importance of college isn't primarily the degree or education. I've told high schoolers that my gig have brought to our offices straight up, the most valuable thing you get from college is the network that you build from it. The people you connect with matters more than any degree unless it's highly specialized like in law, medical or engineering etc.

If you're going to school with your head down and not getting involved on campus, joining different communities/groups etc, socializing then you could have stayed your ass at home and saved a lot of money "learning" by yourself

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

The importance of college isn't primarily the degree or education. I've told high schoolers that my gig have brought to our offices straight up, the most valuable thing you get from college is the network that you build from it. The people you connect with matters more than any degree unless it's highly specialized like in law, medical or engineering etc.

while i agree in principle, the reality is there are more mediocre to subpar colleges than those that are elite or well-connected. you can major in basket weaving at Havard, Princeton or Stanford and top public unis like Michigan and Cal and still get a decent to great job due to school rep and connections (alum and the caliber of classmates you'll be with). even schools that aren't academically prestigious but hold regional clout - like univ of alabama - you can attend for connections and build a strong network in your state.

but the vast majority of schools aren't well connected nor is the student body, everyone is fighting for (meaning they have to apply to jobs, pass interviews, they're not targeted for hiring/company reps don't recruit on campus) the same jobs and no one has a foot up, they're all going thru the motions. kids attending these types of schools need to be more prepared and focused, you can't just go, aimlessly wander thru classes until you end up with a major and hope your classmates or alumni are helpful. again, this is part of the issue with "everyone go to college", you got people taking out 30k/yr to attend schools that can't offer them much in terms of opening doors other than just being able to say they have a college degree.

 

[No1]

while i agree in principle, the reality is there are more mediocre to subpar colleges than those that are elite or well-connected. you can major in basket weaving at Havard, Princeton or Stanford and top public unis like Michigan and Cal and still get a decent to great job due to school rep and connections (alum and the caliber of classmates you'll be with). even schools that aren't academically prestigious but hold regional clout - like univ of alabama - you can attend for connections and build a strong network in your state.

but the vast majority of schools aren't well connected nor is the student body, everyone is fighting for (meaning they have to apply to jobs, pass interviews, they're not targeted for hiring/company reps don't recruit on campus) the same jobs and no one has a foot up, they're all going thru the motions. kids attending these types of schools need to be more prepared and focused, you can't just go, aimlessly wander thru classes until you end up with a major and hope your classmates or alumni are helpful. again, this is part of the issue with "everyone go to college", you got people taking out 30k/yr to attend schools that can't offer them much in terms of opening doors other than just being able to say they have a college degree.

But that sounds like a cost problem too. There are more job openings for college grads than there are elite schools. The gamble for that shouldn’t be asked out with 50k in debt. It should be not much different than applying for a job that requires a high school diploma.