Every loss is a win in the end. #KnicksTank
A Blown Knee & Flat Tires-Another NY Pothole Year: 17-18 Knicks Season Thread
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Lurk Angle
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Every loss is a win in the end. #KnicksTank
Putting all their eggs in one basket though. Good chance the Knicks mess up in the draft considering Mills is still there...Knicks have no idea how to acquire young talent outside the draft or make any good deals. Have yall been watching the Nets?? They traded away how many draft picks in the Boston deal and they still somehow have a young talented squad and are well coached. I cant even watch the Knicks anymore, I had it on YES all night.
MR. Conclusion
All Star
I can't front. Kanter was bodying their frontcourt. I was looking forward to Willy this season, but we got a log jam and somebody gotta go between the two of them.
GetInTheTruck
Member
Depressing.
This dude Kanter isn't garbage skills wise, but his mentality is. Hope he keeps putting up stats so we can ship him outta here.
This dude Kanter isn't garbage skills wise, but his mentality is. Hope he keeps putting up stats so we can ship him outta here.
The true tank commanderTHJr with that 0.47 PER
GetInTheTruck
Member
**SPOILER ALERT**
We gonna get smacked by the Nets too.
We gonna get smacked by the Nets too.
Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
Tim looks so terrible, even if he gets his scoring on point, he does absolutely nothing else on the court. I was expecting him to take another step as a playmaker and a defender when he was signed, but he looks like the same Tim from a few years ago. He's not creating quality looks for himself or anybody else and his shot selection is bad. Still way to early to write him off, but I was expecting more from him so far.
storyteller
Superstar
That game was atrocious fam. MSG needs to play this one on loop for Halloween and splice in clips of Robert Randolph at the keyboard with the Transylvania background music rocking. I can count on one hand how many easy buckets our PG's created. KP was shut down. Tim Hardaway's game is eerily reminiscent of Tim Hardaway's game, shocker. Hornacek was worried about small ball from the opposition while their big wings abused our smaller wings all night. It was just a huge mess that only gets exacerbated by comments from THJ and Lee stating that players don't know the plays and need to pay attention in practice...that's on the staff, the players and management all at once. This isn't how you clean up your image around the league. On the bright side, we uncovered the truth behind Wally's Kanter fanboyism; Kanter looks like his pops. Anyway, let's just rip this band-aid off and get it over with.
Ramon Sessions: He worked hard, got into the lane a couple of times and tallied 8 points, 7 assists and 3 steals but my God did those feel like empty stats. He pushes the pace about as well as Jose Calderon did. The guy simply is not a playmaker any more on anything other than the simplest assist opportunities, like Jose Calderon. Defensively, we're best off hiding him on the worst offensive player he can guard, like Jose Calderon. All jokes aside, if your PG can't get players easy looks in rhythm then you're going to see a lot of shooting slumps and inefficient nights from everybody. He can't make plays in the half court, can't push the pace and his forays into the paint thus far have displayed about the same peripheral vision as D-Rose...that's right, I squeezed in every bad trait from Calderon and Rose's worst trait all into one figure and that Frankenstein monster is our starting PG. Happy Halloween.
KP: After the third or fourth time that a help defender came through and forced a bad shot or TO from KP, he stopped attacking off the dribble almost entirely. The C's had a great gameplan, Kanter's man was always available to double and if at any point he wasn't then Kyrie Irving would fly over and force KP to pick up his dribble early. But KP needs to shoulder the blame for not continuing to attack the rack, he wasn't shooting well because Horford could get up into his space without worrying about blow by's and his most effective plays were drawing fouls. He HAS to realize that and NOT SETTLE. But I will say it'd help if Hornacek sees his struggling player and calls some simple pick and rolls or pops; some plays off screens or just anything to get a quick easy look. It'd really help if Sessions could manufacture space for KP or Kanter could get out of the way. Those aren't necessities, a star finds a way to score but a young player learning to carry a team could use that kind of help. 3 for 14 for 12 points and just 5 boards in 32 minutes...he HAS to be better. On the bright side, he made some mistakes on defense but for the most part I thought he hung with Horford pretty well.
Tim Hardaway: 2 for 11 posting 6 points, 3 boards and 1 assist in what can only be described as a trash performance. I HATE when coaches tell us a player doing poorly is playing through an injury, he's not helping...bench him and let him heal if his game is that affected. Defensively, Hornacek basically threw Tim Hardaway into a damned trap by watching Lee overwhelmed by Brown and switching THJ over. Hardaway is smaller than Lee and a worse defender to boot, switching him to the guy that was killing us pretty much felt like unnecessarily torturing the expensive new guy. Also this was the second game where THJ yells at a teammate visibly out there and we're 3 games in. I don't mind the comments about players being lost after the game tbh, but showing up your teammates on the court is crap. We're also three for three on the "when you're not scoring you need to contribute some place else" run for 2017/2018 Hardaway, which probably means we're at 85 straight games in a Knicks jersey not impacting anything but scoring.
Enes Kanter: I remember being one of the first Lance Thomas haters during his statistical anomaly season. Feels like Kanter is my new Lance. Praised by management and announcers to prime the audience into ignoring glaring flaws while he puts up mostly empty stats. Yes, he rebounds well and can score but there's just a collection of small nuances in his game that I HATE. Take the moment in the first where he posted up, took multiple dribbles and never picked his head up to realize he was surrounded by three defenders or that I can't recall a single pass out of the post once the ball got to him there. Take the second quarter three pointer from Rozier where Kanter let his man set a screen and instead of showing to Rozier, he turned his back to the ball handler and got ready to chase an extra rebound. There is a stunning lack of awareness from dude on both ends of the floor and defensive effort comes and goes from him. He had 16 points, 19 rebounds and it all just felt worthless because the entire time we were getting blown out. He can be a useful bench scoring focal point, but I don't like him starting.
Lee: Courtney Lee was too small to guard Jalen Brown. That's not an insult, he tried hard and did what he could but was overpowered. That said, he looked like a leader to me. He had 13 pts and 3 asts which is forgettable but represents the second leading scorer and assits man in the game while he's probably getting the least touches of all the starters. At one point KP thought he was fouled on a shot and then Horford immediately went to take dude one on one in some "let's break him mentally" ish; Lee shot over to double and picked up a foul...but he was trying to help the young guy there. At another point right as Wally was begging for somebody to step up, Lee uncharacteristically took his man off the dribble...and got a lay-up. Simple stuff but it shows a poise that nobody else in a Knicks uniform had.
McDermott: 6 pts, 4 boards, 2 asts and a steal in 17 mins. He's actually been a useful bench piece so far and not just a scorer. He's looking to help defend consistently and while he gets cooked sometimes one on one, that help D stands out above his mistakes. He's getting some boards, cutting off the ball and doing things that generally help out everyone by changing the defense's shape or boosting other guys with support. About the only flat out good performance of the night.
Dotson: 5 minutes, one board and no other stats but he posted a +2 which was the only positive +/- and since everything else sucked last night, I'm pointing that out to not look completely negative.
Jack: 4,2,2 in 18 minutes...good enough to supplant Ron Baker since he, you know, handles the rock well enough to run point. I won't attack him too hard here, it wasn't much of a performance but everyone else was so bad that he gets a pass.
Beasley: 6 pts, 3 boards, 2 assists and 2 TO's in 14 mins. That's a lot of numbers in fairly short time mainly because he didn't shrink under high pressure defense. Which is to say, whether you love him or hate him the guy probably needs to be out there to take some pressure off all these young inexperienced cats.
Willy: 12 pts in 11 minutes plus 2 steals and a board. You'd like more rebounds but there weren't many available in his brief time out there. Defensively started off alright but got burnt 2 or 3 times in his little time out there which translates to roughly the same garbage defense as Kanter.
KOQ: Not as locked in as last game but still more poised than most of the young guys around him. 2 pts, 2 boards, 1 ast and a block in just 6 mins; he's still doing good things when he's out there.
Lance: When Lee came off the floor for Baker in the first while Brown was going off, I remember thinking "this is the one situation where I actually want to see Lance be used"...when I looked back and saw Lance played 10 minutes last night I remember thinking "wait really? He was out there that long?" 2 points on 1 of 4 shooting and goose eggs across the board. He was Hollow Man out there.
Baker: 10 mins 2 pts, 2 assists and a steal in mostly futility while he was out there. Jeff played him mostly with a second ball handler which was an improvement in how Baker is used but Baker did nothing with it which you'd expect because he's a complimentary piece in a game with no one worth complimenting.
Jigsaw: Half the time his rotations look like their putting players in a crappy situation on purpose, like he's trying to teach them a lesson in some sink or swim test. His players apparently don't know the plays yet which is horrifying. The team is at a talent deficit, yes but it also doesn't play hard and feels aimless at times. He's in a bad situation with no pure playmaker, logjams and a ton of youth to teach; but that doesn't make his poor rotations, confused players and the slew of complaining players a forgivable offense. Look around at the other tank teams, the only one as aimless as ours fired its head coach already. Unfortunately if the next in line on the coaching staff were to takeover, that'd be Kurt Rambis, so much like the traps in every Saw movies after the first two...we're doomed no matter what we decide.
Ramon Sessions: He worked hard, got into the lane a couple of times and tallied 8 points, 7 assists and 3 steals but my God did those feel like empty stats. He pushes the pace about as well as Jose Calderon did. The guy simply is not a playmaker any more on anything other than the simplest assist opportunities, like Jose Calderon. Defensively, we're best off hiding him on the worst offensive player he can guard, like Jose Calderon. All jokes aside, if your PG can't get players easy looks in rhythm then you're going to see a lot of shooting slumps and inefficient nights from everybody. He can't make plays in the half court, can't push the pace and his forays into the paint thus far have displayed about the same peripheral vision as D-Rose...that's right, I squeezed in every bad trait from Calderon and Rose's worst trait all into one figure and that Frankenstein monster is our starting PG. Happy Halloween.
KP: After the third or fourth time that a help defender came through and forced a bad shot or TO from KP, he stopped attacking off the dribble almost entirely. The C's had a great gameplan, Kanter's man was always available to double and if at any point he wasn't then Kyrie Irving would fly over and force KP to pick up his dribble early. But KP needs to shoulder the blame for not continuing to attack the rack, he wasn't shooting well because Horford could get up into his space without worrying about blow by's and his most effective plays were drawing fouls. He HAS to realize that and NOT SETTLE. But I will say it'd help if Hornacek sees his struggling player and calls some simple pick and rolls or pops; some plays off screens or just anything to get a quick easy look. It'd really help if Sessions could manufacture space for KP or Kanter could get out of the way. Those aren't necessities, a star finds a way to score but a young player learning to carry a team could use that kind of help. 3 for 14 for 12 points and just 5 boards in 32 minutes...he HAS to be better. On the bright side, he made some mistakes on defense but for the most part I thought he hung with Horford pretty well.
Tim Hardaway: 2 for 11 posting 6 points, 3 boards and 1 assist in what can only be described as a trash performance. I HATE when coaches tell us a player doing poorly is playing through an injury, he's not helping...bench him and let him heal if his game is that affected. Defensively, Hornacek basically threw Tim Hardaway into a damned trap by watching Lee overwhelmed by Brown and switching THJ over. Hardaway is smaller than Lee and a worse defender to boot, switching him to the guy that was killing us pretty much felt like unnecessarily torturing the expensive new guy. Also this was the second game where THJ yells at a teammate visibly out there and we're 3 games in. I don't mind the comments about players being lost after the game tbh, but showing up your teammates on the court is crap. We're also three for three on the "when you're not scoring you need to contribute some place else" run for 2017/2018 Hardaway, which probably means we're at 85 straight games in a Knicks jersey not impacting anything but scoring.
Enes Kanter: I remember being one of the first Lance Thomas haters during his statistical anomaly season. Feels like Kanter is my new Lance. Praised by management and announcers to prime the audience into ignoring glaring flaws while he puts up mostly empty stats. Yes, he rebounds well and can score but there's just a collection of small nuances in his game that I HATE. Take the moment in the first where he posted up, took multiple dribbles and never picked his head up to realize he was surrounded by three defenders or that I can't recall a single pass out of the post once the ball got to him there. Take the second quarter three pointer from Rozier where Kanter let his man set a screen and instead of showing to Rozier, he turned his back to the ball handler and got ready to chase an extra rebound. There is a stunning lack of awareness from dude on both ends of the floor and defensive effort comes and goes from him. He had 16 points, 19 rebounds and it all just felt worthless because the entire time we were getting blown out. He can be a useful bench scoring focal point, but I don't like him starting.
Lee: Courtney Lee was too small to guard Jalen Brown. That's not an insult, he tried hard and did what he could but was overpowered. That said, he looked like a leader to me. He had 13 pts and 3 asts which is forgettable but represents the second leading scorer and assits man in the game while he's probably getting the least touches of all the starters. At one point KP thought he was fouled on a shot and then Horford immediately went to take dude one on one in some "let's break him mentally" ish; Lee shot over to double and picked up a foul...but he was trying to help the young guy there. At another point right as Wally was begging for somebody to step up, Lee uncharacteristically took his man off the dribble...and got a lay-up. Simple stuff but it shows a poise that nobody else in a Knicks uniform had.
McDermott: 6 pts, 4 boards, 2 asts and a steal in 17 mins. He's actually been a useful bench piece so far and not just a scorer. He's looking to help defend consistently and while he gets cooked sometimes one on one, that help D stands out above his mistakes. He's getting some boards, cutting off the ball and doing things that generally help out everyone by changing the defense's shape or boosting other guys with support. About the only flat out good performance of the night.
Dotson: 5 minutes, one board and no other stats but he posted a +2 which was the only positive +/- and since everything else sucked last night, I'm pointing that out to not look completely negative.
Jack: 4,2,2 in 18 minutes...good enough to supplant Ron Baker since he, you know, handles the rock well enough to run point. I won't attack him too hard here, it wasn't much of a performance but everyone else was so bad that he gets a pass.
Beasley: 6 pts, 3 boards, 2 assists and 2 TO's in 14 mins. That's a lot of numbers in fairly short time mainly because he didn't shrink under high pressure defense. Which is to say, whether you love him or hate him the guy probably needs to be out there to take some pressure off all these young inexperienced cats.
Willy: 12 pts in 11 minutes plus 2 steals and a board. You'd like more rebounds but there weren't many available in his brief time out there. Defensively started off alright but got burnt 2 or 3 times in his little time out there which translates to roughly the same garbage defense as Kanter.
KOQ: Not as locked in as last game but still more poised than most of the young guys around him. 2 pts, 2 boards, 1 ast and a block in just 6 mins; he's still doing good things when he's out there.
Lance: When Lee came off the floor for Baker in the first while Brown was going off, I remember thinking "this is the one situation where I actually want to see Lance be used"...when I looked back and saw Lance played 10 minutes last night I remember thinking "wait really? He was out there that long?" 2 points on 1 of 4 shooting and goose eggs across the board. He was Hollow Man out there.
Baker: 10 mins 2 pts, 2 assists and a steal in mostly futility while he was out there. Jeff played him mostly with a second ball handler which was an improvement in how Baker is used but Baker did nothing with it which you'd expect because he's a complimentary piece in a game with no one worth complimenting.
Jigsaw: Half the time his rotations look like their putting players in a crappy situation on purpose, like he's trying to teach them a lesson in some sink or swim test. His players apparently don't know the plays yet which is horrifying. The team is at a talent deficit, yes but it also doesn't play hard and feels aimless at times. He's in a bad situation with no pure playmaker, logjams and a ton of youth to teach; but that doesn't make his poor rotations, confused players and the slew of complaining players a forgivable offense. Look around at the other tank teams, the only one as aimless as ours fired its head coach already. Unfortunately if the next in line on the coaching staff were to takeover, that'd be Kurt Rambis, so much like the traps in every Saw movies after the first two...we're doomed no matter what we decide.
storyteller
Superstar
Film Study: How Al Horford and Boston Celtics shut down Kristaps Porzingis
That spacing is horrifying.
That spacing is horrifying.
Deep_Black_Conscious
Superstar
ProlificLurker
Superstar
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ikbm
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@storyteller all of our bench players are just players given too much responsibility and don't generally fit together.
McDermott would look infinitely better on a team that could use his skillset.
Dude would be a bench nuisance on the warriors since he cuts and shoots.
Hornacek isn't the coach to meld players into what he wants to run.
He wants to run and gun and pick and roll a lot. Unfortunately Michael Beasley has the best vision in relation to his position on this team
McDermott would look infinitely better on a team that could use his skillset.
Dude would be a bench nuisance on the warriors since he cuts and shoots.
Hornacek isn't the coach to meld players into what he wants to run.
He wants to run and gun and pick and roll a lot. Unfortunately Michael Beasley has the best vision in relation to his position on this team
storyteller
Superstar
@storyteller all of our bench players are just players given too much responsibility and don't generally fit together.
McDermott would look infinitely better on a team that could use his skillset.
Dude would be a bench nuisance on the warriors since he cuts and shoots.
Hornacek isn't the coach to meld players into what he wants to run.
He wants to run and gun and pick and roll a lot. Unfortunately Michael Beasley has the best vision in relation to his position on this team
Fam, I was joking with my brother last night about Beasley being our best playmaker yesterday since he can score AND pass which is so rare on this roster!
Our bench guys are definitely given too much responsibility but my main issue is that it doesn't even look like Jeff is TRYING to get pieces together that compliment each other. KP would low key benefit from McDermott's gravity and hard cuts moreso than he does from the Lee/Hardaway tandem which is too undersized to defend both wings on any night a real SF is out there. Kanter clogs the lane BADLY, so even if our ball handlers want to attack off the dribble it's a promised double team. The lack of chemistry is horrifying and while it's hard to see a way to fix it, I'd love to see Hornacek at least attempt some new combinations. Willy actually had some chemistry with Baker of all people and I think McDermott/Hardaway is a floor stretching combination that needs time when the offense is hurting or teams are committed to doubling KP like last night. Their gravity will break the double team or give us open three's.
