[5/15/24] AEW Dynamite: Swerve/Brian Cage, Okada/FTR Bald, BCC/United Empire, TnA Action and More

[mannyrs13]

My point is Mercedes could survive a loss just like Danielson can for the exact reason you said, they are established stars. I'm not even remotely saying they're in the same boat/predicament

Oh yeah for sure i get that. I was referring more to the sentiment that having BD lose early killed his momentum when the expectations for him weren't as high. He wasn't looked at as someone that was coming in to change things cuz they already had a decent male roster. Even now he's not looked as someone that can lead the division. A few people commented saying he's not as big a star now but he's been playing the same role as when he got in.

Mercedes can definitely afford a loss since she's still young but the long delay is what hurt them. She does have the star power, I agree. But you right on whether she has the title two weeks from now or two months from now. She can still promote for the brand even without a title.

I think it helps having a title when promoting but for her being an established star and already doing some promotional work, it shouldn't matter.

Far as main title goes, Toni Storm is doing incredible work & i don't feel like she should be dethroned to please Mercedes or Willow. The core group of women that have been involved with main title way different than tbs group. Issue was that they grouped Mercedes with TBS title cuz of history with Willow.

It's a tough predicament cuz either way they go, they gotta make sure the longer term goes right for both Mercedes and Willow.

I feel like Stat turning heel may be best buy let's see how they do things.

 

[Jmare007]

What's the difference between her holding the belt two weeks from now than two months from now? Is AEW going to miss 1M+ viewers on Dynamite for those two extra months she's not champion? As much as you guys talk about her being a ratings draw, she barely moved the needle in terms of viewership so far. And you of all people should know that since you're posting numbers every week

What the difference for Willow to get that a 2nd straight W over Mercedes so she can lose it soon after? You said it yourself, once she drops the belt TK wont have a clue as to what to do with her.

My point is that as a promoter, you should try to see what Mercedes has as potential draw (not ratings, forget about that because no one in AEW is doing a damn thing with that until WWE starts losing some steam and who knows when that's gonna happen) and for that you should present her as a winner and as a formidable wrestler from the moment she steps a foot in the ring.

Between trying shyt out with Willow and Mercedes, in the middle of 2024, I choose Mercedes no doubt about it. Willow will have to wait for another chance. And look, anyone can be rebuilt and promoted with good booking (see Mark Henry) but AEW doesn't really have much of that, sadly.

 

[mannyrs13]

If TK was booking the divisions the way they are supposed to be booked, the TBS title should be like the U.S. title was for WCW.... you are essentially the #1 contender to the world title and if you happen to lose your belt, it's a natural transition into a title program for the main belt.

I mean shyt... that's how the intercontinental title was once utilized as well..

But you already said you don't trust Snowman and I don't either which is why I think they need to course correct with Mercedes before they burn out any goodwill they had with their fans. The core fanbase is already going to have a hard time accepting her because she's a legitimate "sports entertainer" star from the company they hate.

I'm curious to know what percentage actually hates WWE. Wouldn't even say Cattle cuz he said he watches the PLEs and knows what's going on. It's not like people who hate AEW. I feel like the people that are anti WWE are more like the ones who dislike certain storylines or how wrestlers are used. But the hate is much more towards AEW with plenty of fans celebrating the low ratings & hopes the company goes out of business.

Of course it could be true, not sure how big that core fanbase that hates wwe may be tho.

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

Oh yeah for sure i get that. I was referring more to the sentiment that having BD lose early killed his momentum when the expectations for him weren't as high. He wasn't looked at as someone that was coming in to change things cuz they already had a decent male roster. Even now he's not looked as someone that can lead the division. A few people commented saying he's not as big a star now but he's been playing the same role as when he got in.

Mercedes can definitely afford a loss since she's still young but the long delay is what hurt them. She does have the star power, I agree. But you right on whether she has the title two weeks from now or two months from now. She can still promote for the brand even without a title.

I think it helps having a title when promoting but for her being an established star and already doing some promotional work, it shouldn't matter.

Far as main title goes, Toni Storm is doing incredible work & i don't feel like she should be dethroned to please Mercedes or Willow. The core group of women that have been involved with main title way different than tbs group. Issue was that they grouped Mercedes with TBS title cuz of history with Willow.

It's a tough predicament cuz either way they go, they gotta make sure the longer term goes right for both Mercedes and Willow.

I feel like Stat turning heel may be best buy let's see how they do things.

I agree with everything you said. I think they're setting things up for a DMD/Hayter return for the other belt. One of them will likely dethrone Toni, with I'm guessing the preference being Hayter at All In assuming she's healthy. If Hayter is not healthy, then maybe DMD at All Out the next weekend. I also can't see Statlander as a heel working out either. She's a natural babyface like Willow. As much as it pains me to say it, maybe it's time for some form of women's tag belts.

What the difference for Willow to get that a 2nd straight W over Mercedes so she can lose it soon after? You said it yourself, once she drops the belt TK wont have a clue as to what to do with her.

My point is that as a promoter, you should try to see what Mercedes has as potential draw (not ratings, forget about that because no one in AEW is doing a damn thing with that until WWE starts losing some steam and who knows when that's gonna happen) and for that you should present her as a winner and as a formidable wrestler from the moment she steps a foot in the ring.

Between trying shyt out with Willow and Mercedes, in the middle of 2024, I choose Mercedes no doubt about it. Willow will have to wait for another chance. And look, anyone can be rebuilt and promoted with good booking (see Mark Henry) but AEW doesn't really have much of that, sadly.

Fair enough. I think the win against her in AEW establishes Willow as a main event women's performer whereas a loss hurts her more. That's the difference. But I understand the other point of view too.

 

[mannyrs13]

I agree with everything you said. I think they're setting things up for a DMD/Hayter return for the other belt. One of them will likely dethrone Toni, with I'm guessing the preference being Hayter at All In assuming she's healthy. If Hayter is not healthy, then maybe DMD at All Out the next weekend. I also can't see Statlander as a heel working out either. She's a natural babyface like Willow. As much as it pains me to say it, maybe it's time for some form of women's tag belts.



Fair enough. I think the win against her in AEW establishes Willow as a main event women's performer whereas a loss hurts her more. That's the difference. But I understand the other point of view too.

Think tag belts may be coming by end of year. Division got way too many worthy stars that deserve a championship.

 

[Jmare007]

I don't know if you can compare Danielson & Mercedes. Both were already established stars before AEW but BD was more towards the end of his career so putting others over may not have the same effect. Especially if Mercedes there to help build up the women's division. BD was not brought in to do what Mercedes is expected to do.

I'm more talking about the difference between established wrestlers potential ability to draw vs risk of losing how over they are. A guy like Danielson is teflon, people will react to him no matter what (specially once the bell rings) and there's no amount of losing that will change that. But a guy like Danielson, to make a difference in how many people wanna spend money on his promotion because of him, needs to be presented and promoted as formidable wrestler that doesn't lose...just like 99% of wrestlers really.

Him coming in to AEW and doing what he did translated in a bunch of dope matches and promos but as you said, it also meant he was still in the same role as he's been for the past decade, so by month 4 of him being in AEW, any potential drawing power he had was reduced to its minimum. The company had two other chances to try it out with him, but he decided he didn't want them and he put other people over as well.

But at the end of the day, there was no better chance to try/prove if he could draw than in that 6-8 week stretch were he was killing folks every week on Dynamite and cutting great heel promos. His and TK's decisions was to "make" Hangman and that's OK, it was a valid choice for sure, but it did kill Dragon's drawing potential.

With Mercedes, you ain't gonna get a better chance as establishing her and the women division that this debut. If you choose to delay it, it will mean you are gonna need a level of booking and promoting that AEW hasn't shown it has, so you would be risking her potential because you wanna try something with Willow. Which again, it's valid -Mercedes isn't gonna be less over because of it-, but to me it' the wrong decision.

 

[TheSuperkick!]

Think tag belts may be coming by end of year. Division got way too many worthy stars that deserve a championship.

For the love of God I hate this mentality. Why? Why do they deserve a championship? They have 2 belts that have the same problem as the men's belts, TK's booking. It's just duck duck goose until it's the next girl's turn. Girl debuts, she gets a title feud. Girl comes back from injury, she gets a title match. Wash rinse repeat. That's Mercedes, Deonna, Rosa, Stat, Riho and Deeb right there back to back. For all intent and purpose, show up, get title match.

I see Willow get momentum and win her way to the TBS Title, that's great. That's supposed to be how it works. I asked a few weeks ago, what's stopping Deeb from feuding with Rosa, or something of the like? Nope, they just line up for Toni, (and this is not a dig at Storm, she's phenomenal) but none of them are even remotely in her league at this stage. Not one of them got any type of momentum before coming for her crown.

What was stopping Deonna from debuting as a heel and Stat feeling some kind of way about her talking down about the women?

I understand that Rosa was the champion, but what was the plan AFTER her loss to Toni? The Deonna feud that may not even get a mention?

What is the point of Riho? She shows up and then leaves for MONTHS. To hell with her.

You want to add tag titles? Who's gonna team? What true depth would this hypothetical division have? Because as I have pointed out, none of these girls seem to feud with each other and then the rest are out injured.

I don't want or need to see Emi Sakura show up with a random joshi and get a random tag title match on a random Dynamite.

STOP!

 

[mannyrs13]

I'm more talking about the difference between established wrestlers potential ability to draw vs risk of losing how over they are. A guy like Danielson is teflon, people will react to him no matter what (specially once the bell rings) and there's no amount of losing that will change that. But a guy like Danielson, to make a difference in how many people wanna spend money on his promotion because of him, needs to be presented and promoted as formidable wrestler that doesn't lose...just like 99% of wrestlers really.

Him coming in to AEW and doing what he did translated in a bunch of dope matches and promos but as you said, it also meant he was still in the same role as he's been for the past decade, so by month 4 of him being in AEW, any potential drawing power he had was reduced to its minimum. The company had two other chances to try it out with him, but he decided he didn't want them and he put other people over as well.

But at the end of the day, there was no better chance to try/prove if he could draw than in that 6-8 week stretch were he was killing folks every week on Dynamite and cutting great heel promos. His and TK's decisions was to "make" Hangman and that's OK, it was a valid choice for sure, but it did kill Dragon's drawing potential.

With Mercedes, you ain't gonna get a better chance as establishing her and the women division that this debut. If you choose to delay it, it will mean you are gonna need a level of booking and promoting that AEW hasn't shown it has, so you would be risking her potential because you wanna try something with Willow. Which again, it's valid -Mercedes isn't gonna be less over because of it-, but to me it' the wrong decision.

Yeah I feel you on that. Who knows what things would look like now is BD had ever been a champion.

Tho that's an unfortunate issue with fans & certain wrestlers. Especially obvious with Punk and that whole saga. I know some fans tuned in strictly for him & blame everything on what went wrong with the company on how things turned out during that situation.

It's good to have a major star but hurts when that's the only one the fans care about. It be like that tho so they do gotta make sure a multitude of people get focused on. But yeah def should've given him a title reign at one point. Of course we'll never know how big an effect he may have had on ratings & merch sales.


It's an impossible metric to track, but it makes me wonder how much effect a championship has on a wrestlers merch sales. I know I saw the wwe top 5 sellers posted somewhere recently but don't remember which of those were champions.

 

[mannyrs13]

For the love of God I hate this mentality. Why? Why do they deserve a championship? They have 2 belts that have the same problem as the men's belts, TK's booking. It's just duck duck goose until it's the next girl's turn. Girl debuts, she gets a title feud. Girl comes back from injury, she gets a title match. Wash rinse repeat. That's Mercedes, Deonna, Rosa, Stat, Riho and Deeb right there back to back. For all intent and purpose, show up, get title match.

I see Willow get momentum and win her way to the TBS Title, that's great. That's supposed to be how it works. I asked a few weeks ago, what's stopping Deeb from feuding with Rosa, or something of the like? Nope, they just line up for Toni, (and this is not a dig at Storm, she's phenomenal) but none of them are even remotely in her league at this stage. Not one of them got any type of momentum before coming for her crown.

What was stopping Deonna from debuting as a heel and Stat feeling some kind of way about her talking down about the women?

I understand that Rosa was the champion, but what was the plan AFTER her loss to Toni? The Deonna feud that may not even get a mention?

What is the point of Riho? She shows up and then leaves for MONTHS. To hell with her.

You want to add tag titles? Who's gonna team? What true depth would this hypothetical division have? Because as I have pointed out, none of these girls seem to feud with each other and then the rest are out injured.

I don't want or need to see Emi Sakura show up with a random joshi and get a random tag title match on a random Dynamite.

STOP!

Ok first I understand your frustration, and you make valid points. Now my post can easily be divided into separate parts. Issue with women vs men is that women have less titles & less focus and tv time on them.

Now it doesn't necessarily mean tag titles but women like Mariah, Skye, and Thunder Rosa have been doing well this year, not to mention ones that are out like Britt and Jamie.

Problem is there is two titles for many women, compared to WWE that has a women's tag. And fact that Toni Storm has been champion for what like a year now?

I'll refer to WWE as an example since its best looked at thru them. No matter man or woman. Reigns held the title for a few years. Seth had a long reign, as did Gunther. Logan Paul has had a long one as well. Not saying that those reigns haven't been great, other than Logan. But there have been guys thru out those reigns that people here feel are deserving of holding a championship. But when there's a limited amount of titles that isn't possible for everyone. Especially when it's 2 titles compared to 4 men.

Problem with women's wrestling is that they often don't go past feuding for a title. It's not like the men that don't need one. Look at the bcc vs dcf thing or anarchy in the arena or any random mens match that's not involving a title. It's easier to do them cuz the men get more opportunities as the focus of the promotions.



Tag titles have pros and cons no doubt. Like with Bianca and Jade, while its cool they have them, it would be better if they were going for one of the main titles. Tag titles are a temporary solution but not a long term plan. They would need to build up a decent tag division first if they were gonna attempt something like that.

 

[Vic Damone. Jr]

 

[StatUS]

Darby got that X gene or he's a top tier carny.

Yall are talking about ratings but once the playoffs are over the ratings are gonna go back up a bit.

But Tony doesn't seem to be falling back from this slow reset so hopefully they can reap the rewards of these signings in the summer until All In.

The crowds are getting slightly larger and more active and the shows are entertaining enough.

I think they're in a much better position then they were last fall when they failed to pivot from Cole/MJF.

 

[Cattle Mutilation]

Sasha Banks with your title belt on her shoulder on talk shows or red carpets means more than anything Willow is capable now (and probably ever), this is the chance to make a statement (no pun intended) that the women's division is getting elevated to a new level. When Hogan showed up in WCW in 94 they didn't say "Now would be a great time to MAKE Dustin Rhodes!"

Valid point.

 

[Finn Baller]

Darby got that X gene or he's a top tier carny.

Yall are talking about ratings but once the playoffs are over the ratings are gonna go back up a bit.

But Tony doesn't seem to be falling back from this slow reset so hopefully they can reap the rewards of these signings in the summer until All In.

The crowds are getting slightly larger and more active and the shows are entertaining enough.

I think they're in a much better position then they were last fall when they failed to pivot from Cole/MJF.

Other than that Vancouver show the other day, the crowds are still in the same range they’ve been for most of the year, including some pretty low advances coming up for the Cali swing they are about to embark on

 

[Cattle Mutilation]

Darby got that X gene or he's a top tier carny.

Yall are talking about ratings but once the playoffs are over the ratings are gonna go back up a bit.

But Tony doesn't seem to be falling back from this slow reset so hopefully they can reap the rewards of these signings in the summer until All In.

The crowds are getting slightly larger and more active and the shows are entertaining enough.

I think they're in a much better position then they were last fall when they failed to pivot from Cole/MJF.

Other than Jericho I generally like the programs they got going on right now.

Are they all as well fleshed out as they can be? No to varying degrees, but I think some are as good as they can be for a one-PPV-cycle program like I assume Swerve-Christian will be.

Stuff is generally logically written with past history coming into play in several of the stories.

Also, there is the long term story telling that looks like it could go thru the summer (if not longer) like The Elite hostile takeover, Toni Storm and Mariah May, and Swerve having to pay for all his wrongs when he was a heel.

Once one of Storm or May turn on the other, I think that story has a chance to really catch fire with the charisma and in-ring skills those two have. It may not do much business wise though since it’s women’s wrestling, but I’m a fan, not an employee or investor, so I’m not really going to concern myself with that.

And not necessarily a story, but the strategy they are seemingly going for to elevate all the non-world title singles belts by putting them on world title caliber talents is hopefully going to pay big dividends for those titles down the road.

 

[Cattle Mutilation]

Christopher Daniels got me believing he got fired for real