2024 U.S. Presidential Election Thread: Donald Trump wins & will return to the White House; GOP wins U.S. Senate & U.S. House

WHO WINS?


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jj23

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I remember the argument months ago about this. I didn't ignore the idea that many people won't give a shyt if "basic cabinet seats" go to Generic Moderate Republicans. I said it's bad regardless and has no upside other than rehabilitating a dangerous and toxic ideology. A Generic Moderate Republican is a dangerous extremist who should be ostracized from the levers of power in this country, not given "token" positions to coddle their ego. And there really aren't any token Cabinet positions, they all have some degree of power to improve or make worse the lives of people in this society.

The rationale for accepting decisions from the President cannot just be "Well, nobody will connect the dots if this decision goes poorly" or "This decision may not be actively good, but it's not actively terrible." We should expect our political leaders to be pushing as hard and far as possible in the direction of the good. When they don't do that, they should be heavily criticized and made to change direction. Allowing Kamala to give Republicans a little power as a treat is such a toxic idea, and speaks to a deeper, structural problem with her understanding of the political landscape and her role in political life at this moment in history. Even if the role she gives this Republican is completely devoid of actual power, the mere symbolism is so noxious and damaging to our political life.


Yeah, this is a very bad approach to politics and should be called out and condemned.


I agree that Blinken and Garland are utter disasters, who should be thrown out on day 1. Blinken should probably be in jail if we're being honest.
I fundamentally disagree with that.

Yes the republicans stab you in the back every chance they get. That said, as a politician you have to try to reach across the aisle. That's how these democratic systems of government were built to work. So either get rid of the system or you do what is necessary, and negotiate to try to do the best you can for people.
 

King Kreole

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At this stage it should be pointed out that you haven't even given her a chance to lead yet, but you have already judged her possible presidency.
I haven't judged her non-existent presidency, I'm judging her campaign. It's possible she does a complete 180 when she gets into office but history tells us that's incredibly unlikely.

Yes the republicans stab you in the back every chance they get. That said, as a politician you have to try to reach across the aisle.
This statement can only be made by someone who views politics as a fundamentally unserious game of sportsmanship instead of a deadly serious, high-stakes venture that has the ability to improve or destroy the very lives of the populace. Unfortunately, it's evident that the media class and Democratic Party agree with you.
 

jj23

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I haven't judged her non-existent presidency, I'm judging her campaign. It's possible she does a complete 180 when she gets into office but history tells us that's incredibly unlikely.


This statement can only be made by someone who views politics as a fundamentally unserious game of sportsmanship instead of a deadly serious, high-stakes venture that has the ability to improve or destroy the very lives of the populace. Unfortunately, it's evident that the media class and Democratic Party agree with you.
To judge her campaign you need to step back and appreciate that as a black woman running for President in America it is important for her to peel republican votes off Trump. That's what she is trying to do. The dikk Cheney shout out withstanding I don't think she has done anything wrong in pursuing this, she has a LOT less wriggle room than Trump and that's why she is closer to the center. She has to try to appeal to all Americans.

Your second statement is simply obtuse when you look at the alternative if Kamala doesn't win. Four more years of Trump. How does THAT IMPROVE THE LIVES OF THE POPULACE?

For all of Kamala’s faults there is nothing more cynical than pretending you are morally superior and more interested in improving people's lives, and others on here are playing games when the other option is fascism.

So her stance on Israel? I vehemently disagree with her.

Her dikk Cheney shout out was in poor taste.

Her saying she would have republicans in her cabinet is a nothing burger to me. You made it sound like she committed high treason.

This is why folks get into arguments over stuff like this and HL descends to TLR levels with the insults.

This is also a microcosm of the stuff that's wrong with politics. No one can reason or negotiate anymore , arguments are polarised and no one sees past themselves being right.
 

AquaCityBoy

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Progressives: "Please stop supporting genocide and courting warmongering Republicans"

Democrats: "No."

Higher Learning: "THERE'S NO MAKING THESE PEOPLE HAPPY!"

Go vote for Trump or Stein. I don't think Harris camp can do anything to satisfy you.
You want to argue for the sake of arguing.

Not even an hour later :francis:
 

MAKAVELI25

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Go vote for Trump or Stein. I don't think Harris camp can do anything to satisfy you.
You want to argue for the sake of arguing.

Bottomline, this is less about a division between moderates and progressives than it is a debate between adults and nihilistic children.

If you are willing to risk a Trump presidency, you are not as serious about progressive ideals as you claim to be. A Trump presidency will lead to multiple steps back in every area progressives are concerned about including the environment, racial justice, women's rights, wealth inequality, etc.

Biden has been terrible on his Israel policy and I do not think Kamala will be better. But based on his 1st term, I do know that Trump will be worse.

You think things are bad now? Wait until the Trump admin allows a full on and unequivocal annexation of the West Bank in order to satisfy Miriam Adelson.

Do not claim to care about the Palestinians if you are willing to risk a Trump Presidency. There are two choices in this election and one will lead to a worse outcome for Palestinians. So those of you who are more concerned about preserving your ideological purity than the actual well being of Palestinians are full of shyt and more interested in lecturing from your high horse than you are concerned the people you claim to care about.
 
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