AndroidHero

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Wait do they actually think she’s going to win?:dwillhuh:

If she ain’t meet the requirements she ain’t meet em. If you ain’t meet the requirements to get into a school then it’s most likely your fault don’t be mad they put rules in place.

Tulsi knows she didn't meet the requirements for the September debate, she just want to bully her way into the debate stage, and she depends on her conspiratorial fans to help her.
 

Hood Critic

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Tulsi didn't qualify for the September debate.

tenor.gif
We'll always have the white suit.....







:shaq:
:ahh:
 

storyteller

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Her model goes against your argument. You've asserted that it's postirve supportive voting behavior that elicits the blue wave.

Whereas her model is in agreement with the establishment model you oppose. That being voting against something, in the case of her arguments against Obama, against Clinton, and against Trump matters more.

These are her own words :sas1:



Come on man. You know how I shine. :Bucketsumad:

The assertion was that progressive models outperformed centrist ones in this past election. The blue wave was a definitely going down, yes, but to maximize the impact you'd assume a better strategy is to lean in to left leaning platforms because of the partisan nature of the electorate. If you're never gonna get Republicans to cross over and you don't have to worry about them; then you should focus on turning out the left leaning independents. She literally points out that moving left won certain candidates the independent voting battle which I'll cite for you later. Anyway here's the actual assertion:


All that said, lemme relink the Bitcofer interview for you because I'm not getting this from no where and it was obvious you didn't read it when you mentioned moderates winning the most seats before. This woman got 2018 seats flipping almost dead on well in advance of anyone else being close. Her model is more confident than I am and one of her main conclusions from the model is that progressive platforms outperformed centrist ones when you factor in certain variables that traditional models miss (and again, her model bodied all of the traditional models).

She predicted the "blue wave" perfectly. So what about 2020?

:sas2:


Here's supporting points in the article with clarification
In your look back, you actually said that there was a Republican surge, but it wasn’t a match for the Democratic surge.

The truth of the matter is Democratic turnout, particularly in midterms, is so bad that with the giant surge the Democrats managed to put together, what they were able to do is come close to matching Republican turnout. Which is good, that's a major victory. But in many districts, especially where the candidates were focusing on being moderate, the Democratic turnout still underperformed its potential, and still underperformed turnout among Republicans, according to this analysis that I'll be releasing after Labor Day.

But the turnout surge among independents — new independents, not ones who voted in 2014 — was so large combined with that turnout surge of Democrats to flip the district. If Republicans had also voted for Democrats, then these margins by which Democrats won would be much larger.

So back to the assertion, the correct strategy could maximize supporters. For one, you could further stoke negative partisanship toward Trump. When I mentioned "lack of meaningful action from House leadership" as something that could reduce turnout, I meant that impeachment would increase negative partisanship and create higher voter turnout. Here's why I think that's the case:

As a corollary to that, would you say concerns that "We shouldn’t do X because Trump will exploit it to rile up his supporters" are off-base, because that's going to happen anyway?

Absolutely. In fact, in the district-level analysis of the voter file in California and Virginia that I'll be releasing after Labor Day, I have competitive districts in those states. The data shows the turnout surge and how much different the composition of the electorate was between 2014 and 2018. I'm also able to show that even in these districts where Democrats ran Blue Dog candidates who were as unobtrusive as possible — with, exactly as you stated, the goal of not riling up Trump voters — the turnout for Republican voters in those districts was huge.

In fact, not only did Democrats not get the benefit of not stirring up the Trump base — the Trump base was stirred up and showed up in huge numbers — but by not tapping into anti-Trump sentiment in their own campaign strategy, by not intentionally activating that Trump angst, they paid a price in terms of their own base turnout. It was depressed, compared to other districts.

But that's not the only strategy that she says can increase the turnout of Democrat voters. She speaks to platforms that showed success versus the ones that were abject failures. Which approach to issues does she cite as the most effective in driving turnout?

I do know there is an increasing voice within Democratic politics that is leaning toward seeing the environment through my lens, and we saw that play out in 2018, in the campaign strategies of Beto O’Rourke and Stacey Abrams. What they were able to do in terms of their contests in both those deep red states was absolutely remarkable, and it speaks to the efficacy of a turnout-based approach, a strategic approach.

In Texas and Georgia, O'Rourke and Abrams both carried the votes of independents, whereas in Missouri and Indiana, where [incumbent senators] Claire McCaskill and Joe Donnelly positioned themselves much more in the Blue Dog camp in terms of issues positions, both of them lost independents.

So you might think, "Why is that? If one group of candidates took more liberal issue positions, why did they win over independents?" It seems counterfactual, and the reason is what mattered was turnout. O’Rourke and Abrams carried independents because turnout surged, with different independents showing up to vote, motivated by the targeting strategy deployed by those campaigns, which were run under my suggested model rather than the old playbook that used to work back in the '90s and '80s.

Now this seems pretty clear. By focusing on turning out left leaning independents, Abrams and O'Rourke were able to increase their turnouts in comparison to blue dogs who played it safe. I think it's obvious that there's such a thing as leaning too far left in those places, but both candidates ran comfortably to the left of what is typical and they almost pulled off upsets in districts they should have been heavy underdogs (Abrams is a nice call back to my prior mention of voter suppression too since she shoulda won).

But I know where you'd probably go next. I did assert that Obama didn't make policies left leaning enough and that it helped to depress voter turnout. Well, here's where I took that idea from

So here's the other thing that both parties’ leaders should come to understand. In these swing areas, your power time is limited, so you should probably use the power when you have it, because the idea that you're going to hold it indefinitely is totally wrong. Under my research assumptions, under my model, Democrats win the White House in 2020, and then in 2022 they're going to have a very tough electoral cycle, because turnout for Democrats will go back to normal.

And because Democrats have poor electoral strategy, they’re going to compound that problem, probably by not appealing to Democrats to get them to the polls. So no matter how moderate you keep your Blue Dogs' legislation, they’re all going to get wiped out anyway. So use your power where you have it. No. 2, there are ways to keep them in office, but the ways they’re choosing are not the ways to do it.

Now when she says "there are ways to keep them in office" my assumption is that she means passing legislation that encourages them to keep showing up. I acknowledge, that is a reach. But given the other aspects of her comments and that she pointed out completely different constituencies and then mentioned issue sets that encouraged those constituencies to show up...I'm inferring that she's again referring to issue sets and the role that they play in encouraging or depressing turnout.

And damn breh, did you manage to mention me 3 times all while attacking a drastic oversimplified strawman? :umad:
 
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Pressure

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The assertion was that progressive models outperformed centrist ones in this past election. The blue wave was a definitely going down, yes, but to maximize the impact you'd assume a better strategy is to lean in to left leaning platforms because of the partisan nature of the electorate. If you're never gonna get Republicans to cross over and you don't have to worry about them; then you should focus on turning out the left leaning independents. She literally points out that moving left won certain candidates the independent voting battle which I'll cite for you later. Anyway here's the actual assertion:


QUOTE="storyteller, post: 34751038, member: 2612"]
All that said, lemme relink the Bitcofer interview for you because I'm not getting this from no where and it was obvious you didn't read it when you mentioned moderates winning the most seats before. This woman got 2018 seats flipping almost dead on well in advance of anyone else being close. Her model is more confident than I am and one of her main conclusions from the model is that progressive platforms outperformed centrist ones when you factor in certain variables that traditional models miss (and again, her model bodied all of the traditional models).

She predicted the "blue wave" perfectly. So what about 2020?

:sas2:


Here's supporting points in the article with clarification


So back to the assertion, the correct strategy could maximize supporters. For one, you could further stoke negative partisanship toward Trump. When I mentioned "lack of meaningful action from House leadership" as something that could reduce turnout, I meant that impeachment would increase negative partisanship and create higher voter turnout. Here's why I think that's the case:



But that's not the only strategy that she says can increase the turnout of Democrat voters. She speaks to platforms that showed success versus the ones that were abject failures. Which approach to issues does she cite as the most effective in driving turnout?

Here you go moving the goalposts. :unimpressed:


You initially stated that Obama lost because he did not have bold policy proposals and that depressed the base. You went on to suggest that Dems will lose because they are not progressive enough.

The study you cited did not support this. Further your retort does not dispel my initial statement that it is common for incumbents to lose seats.

Actually, the piece you quoted actually proves my point that many of those seats Obama lost were going to be lost anyway. While I was right in saying ACA and the bailout were major drivers for Obama losing I was wrong in that it wasn't so much about depressing the dem base, but his successes actually motivated Republicans at historic levels. So this normal trend coupled with gerrymandering gives up a better idea of why dems lost seats than you saying it's because dem legislation wasn't bold enough.

Her critique on blue dogs is fine, but blue dogs only picked up 6 new seats in 2018. They were about as successful as progressives. And those who won on both sides were either in safe seats or spoke out against Trump and the GOP.

Now when she says "there are ways to keep them in office" my assumption is that she means passing legislation that encourages them to keep showing up. I acknowledge, that is a reach. But given the other aspects of her comments and that she pointed out completely different constituencies and then mentioned issue sets that encouraged those constituencies to show up...I'm inferring that she's again referring to issue sets and the role that they play in encouraging or depressing turnout.
But that isn't what she said. She said that you have a finite window to pass legislation so you should pas whatever you ran on because you're going to lose those seats anyway.

That's directly at odds with how this started.

The funniest part is the type of candidate that seems ideal in her metric is almost someone like Hillary Clinton. :Madwithher:


I dont forget all the progressives saying democrats running anti-trump campaigns wasn't the way to win back the house, but instead they need to focus on policies
:Obeezyha:
 

88m3

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The Onion
August 26 at 5:11 PM ·
“I’ve been busy with other things, so it’s not as extensive a kill list as some I released back when I was president, but I hope you find who I’ve been authorizing the deaths of over the last few months interesting,” said the former commander in chief.


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THEONION.COM

Obama Upholds In-Office Tradition By Releasing 2019 Summer Kill List
WASHINGTON—Continuing a practice that he followed as president, Barack Obama reportedly upheld an old in-office tradition Saturday by releasing his 2019 summer kill list. “I’ve been busy with other things, so it’s not as extensive a kill list as some I released back when I was president, but...
 

Pressure

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In this new era that we’re moving into, we have college-educated voters moving towards the Democrats, and white working-class voters moving away from them. That allowed me to look months and months ahead at polling and say, these are the races where Democrats are going to do really well.

#WarrenGang:Blessed:
 

the next guy

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Here you go moving the goalposts. :unimpressed:


You initially stated that Obama lost because he did not have bold policy proposals and that depressed the base. You went on to suggest that Dems will lose because they are not progressive enough.

The study you cited did not support this. Further your retort does not dispel my initial statement that it is common for incumbents to lose seats.

Actually, the piece you quoted actually proves my point that many of those seats Obama lost were going to be lost anyway. While I was right in saying ACA and the bailout were major drivers for Obama losing I was wrong in that it wasn't so much about depressing the dem base, but his successes actually motivated Republicans at historic levels. So this normal trend coupled with gerrymandering gives up a better idea of why dems lost seats than you saying it's because dem legislation wasn't bold enough.

Her critique on blue dogs is fine, but blue dogs only picked up 6 new seats in 2018. They were about as successful as progressives. And those who won on both sides were either in safe seats or spoke out against Trump and the GOP.


But that isn't what she said. She said that you have a finite window to pass legislation so you should pas whatever you ran on because you're going to lose those seats anyway.

That's directly at odds with how this started.

The funniest part is the type of candidate that seems ideal in her metric is almost someone like Hillary Clinton. :Madwithher:


I dont forget all the progressives saying democrats running anti-trump campaigns wasn't the way to win back the house, but instead they need to focus on policies
:Obeezyha:
All elections are economy elections. Looking at any opinion poll tells you what people care about.
 
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Those platforms ain’t doing shyt :pachaha:

you motivate voters to vote by running for office.:stopitslime:

Abrams is engaging in political entrepreneurship.

AOC got put on by the justice democrats not some ambiguous “voter suppression” group. Might as well tell me she’s baking cookies to help voter turnout out.

at least Eric Holder is doing work with his gerrymandering initiative
I agree the worst thing to the USA is for mitch mcconell to hold the majority in the next congress even with a democratic president they cant accomplish anything.
 
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