2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[A.R.$]

Not at all. It's deflection and obfuscation.

No one was asking the number of people who voted dem in the primary and then voted for Trump in the general.



No one did.

This was one of the quites:



I suppose I should just ask a few questions to get this on track.

Do you think PUMAs would have gained nothing out of a McCain presidency policy wise?

Spoiler

if they are centrists as often pegged I imagine they would

Do you think Bernie or Busters are gaining anything policy wise out of the Trump administration?

Spoiler

if the implementation of leftist policy is the goal I can't imagine Trump offering them any wins

The only thing they seemingly have in common is a protest vote that didn't lead to their candidate ever becoming president.

If we take a step back we can also see another difference between PUMAs and BoBers. One group has a history of supporting and working within the establishment while the others have viewed themselves as outsiders altogether.

Hence the suggestion by @DIO Brando to form your own party.

If you've always viewed yourself as an outsider and operated as an outsider how do you expect your absence to matter? That's like me not going to a business I never went to as a form of protest. I doubt it makes a difference in the end unless their customers stop going.

Wouldn't it be better for those customers to start their own business than boycott a business they never patroned?

A little humor, Obama won in 08 without Pumas and in return Clinton was put in as secretary of state which ultimately led to her not becoming president due to emails and benghazi from that position.

Absolutely nothing about my post was a deflection. And yes posters/ people in general do act like this is unique to Bernie supporters. It is super disingenuous to say no one did.

PUMAs weren’t voting for McCain for policy. It was very little daylight between Obama and Hillary on policy. It was purely a protest vote. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.

The majority of Bernie supporters are registered Democrats. Also, there is no way to start a successful third party with the way the system is currently constructed. If Bernie or his supporters were to start their own party, the very same people would blame them for securing the election for Trump and the republicans. It is not even a realistic option. There was a discussion about this in the Bernie Thread.

Also my post wasn’t just about PUMAs. I brought up Carter and Kennedy, and the 68 primary as examples of losing candidates supporters being unhappy with the party nominee. It is actually quite common. IMO a lot of these discussions are wasted energy. The majority of people who voted for Bernie will end up voting for Biden. However, there is going be a segment of Bernie supporters that is not going to vote for Biden no matter what. It is a waste for energy to tell them their logic is stupid (even though I disagree with them). The only argument that might work on a small portion of them is reminding them about the federal courts. Other than that it is just debating for the sake of debating.

 

[A Cop]

Look at this hateful rhetoric from Biden Boys online:

When will Biden condemn these terrible people? Because of Biden's fans, I will not vote for him.

 

[Pressure]

PUMAs weren’t voting for McCain for policy. It was very little daylight between Obama and Hillary on policy. It was purely a protest vote. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.

If Hillary was a centrist and McCain was a centrist there is undoubtedly crossover in their platform.

Plenty of Hillary voters voted for McCain who weren't PUMAs. There was obviously some crossover appeal there.

The majority of Bernie supporters are registered Democrats.

We're not talking about the majority of Bernie supporters. We're talking specifically about BoBers. This is why I keep saying you're deflecting talking about Bernie supporters as a whole to lessen the idiocy of BoBers and then trying to compare all Bernie Supporters to PUMAs. You're doing exactly what you're accusing others of doing.

Also, there is no way to start a successful third party with the way the system is currently constructed. If Bernie or his supporters were to start their own party, the very same people would blame them for securing the election for Trump and the republicans. It is not even a realistic option. There was a discussion about this in the Bernie Thread.

If there's no way to successfully start a third party, then you have to work with one of the major parties. If you agree, then the whole anti-establishment message is never going to lead to major success outsiders.

Another striker against BoBers.

Also my post wasn’t just about PUMAs. I brought up Carter and Kennedy, and the 68 primary as examples of losing candidates supporters being unhappy with the party nominee. It is actually quite common. IMO a lot of these discussions are wasted energy.

A lot of people have disappointment when their candidate loses. Most of them are mature enough to see the bigger picture.

Another strike against BoBers.

It is a waste for energy to tell them their logic is stupid (even though I disagree with them). The only argument that might work on a small portion of them is reminding them about the federal courts. Other than that it is just debating for the sake of debating.

We were talking amongst ourselves about how stupid BoBers are and told them they should form their own party if they are unhappy.

I'm not sure how you've turned that into anyone trying to convince them they should vote dem because of reasons xyz.

I've said time and time again I view them as people who were probably never involved in political process to begin with so their absence means little in the end, unless you're a candidate basing your entire candidacy on them turn out to vote. That applies to Sanders, not anyone else in this case.

No need in trying to change my mind on this

 

[saturn7]

The homey Irami made it on the Hill.

 

[FAH1223]

 

[A.R.$]

If Hillary was a centrist and McCain was a centrist there is undoubtedly crossover in their platform.

Plenty of Hillary voters voted for McCain who weren't PUMAs. There was obviously some crossover appeal there.

We're not talking about the majority of Bernie supporters. We're talking specifically about BoBers. This is why I keep saying you're deflecting talking about Bernie supporters as a whole to lessen the idiocy of BoBers and then trying to compare all Bernie Supporters to PUMAs. You're doing exactly what you're accusing others of doing.


If there's no way to successfully start a third party, then you have to work with one of the major parties. If you agree, then the whole anti-establishment message is never going to lead to major success outsiders.

Another striker against BoBers.


A lot of people have disappointment when their candidate loses. Most of them are mature enough to see the bigger picture.

Another strike against BoBers.



We were talking amongst ourselves about how stupid BoBers are and told them they should form their own party if they are unhappy.

I'm not sure how you've turned that into anyone trying to convince them they should vote dem because of reasons xyz.

I've said time and time again I view them as people who were probably never involved in political process to begin with so their absence means little in the end, unless you're a candidate basing your entire candidacy on them turn out to vote. That applies to Sanders, not anyone else in this case.

No need in trying to change my mind on this

1. Again,
PUMAs didn’t vote against Obama due to policy. The policy crossover between Obama and Hillary was much higher than the crossover between McCain and Hillary. That is just a fact. It was a protest vote simple and plain. And if you are going to make that argument there is a small policy crossover with Bernie and Trump when it comes to trade. Bernie and Trump are closer in Trade than Biden and Bernie. But overall Biden positions are much closer to Bernie than Trump’s positions. So if a Bernie supporter were to vote for Trump it would be a protest vote just like it was with PUMAs.

2. You stated I am trying to cover for idiots that are Bernie Bros. As Biden would say that is malarkey. I have been extremely critical of the cult of personality that some of the Bros have fell victim to. I have also been critical in the way they engage people, and think they have been very counterproductive in pushing forward his agenda. My point is that all candidates have a portion of supporters that are ignorant. I also point out the hypocrisy of some of the moderates/centrist. For the brief moment it looked like Bernie was going to take the nomination, people were outright talking about taking the election from him, or voting for someone else in the general election. When you do this it is hard to come back to a Bernie supporter and say “party unity”! Fall in line! When if it was the other way around a good portion of them wouldn’t fall in line behind Bernie.

3.I never said Bernie or his supporters strategy was good. I actually have said the opposite. However, that have nothing to do with the reality of starting a new party.

4. Again, you go after Bernie Bros by stating that most candidates supporters are mature enough see the bigger picture, while simultaneously excusing PUMAs, and neglecting the Cater Kennedy beef and 1968.

5. Your last point make no sense. You are again telling them to start their own party if they are unhappy, when you are smart enough to know that isn’t realistic. I would be willing to bet if they really did start a new party and Biden were to lose, you would probably be one of the first people to blame them for Biden losing.

 

[Piff Perkins]

Sanders people don't understand this. And frankly, nor did Warren stans. This is not an election about plans or policy. It's a complete referendum on the president. This was true before the coronavirus but is even more true now. Trump's handling of this is going to determine the election. And based on everything we've seen so far, and what is projected to happen in the coming weeks/months, I think it's safe to say it will be a disaster for him. He already fukked up the preparation. He has fukked up the response, and will likely continue to do so. Meanwhile bodies are stacking up daily...a thousand a day in many cases.

This is gonna come down to...who do the American people think can handle this crisis. The idea that Biden isn't the best speaker or can't do xyz are irrelevant at this point. Nothing more than troll shyt for Trump (and Sanders) chaos agents to peddle online. People are losing their lives, income, and businesses. It's clear the guy in office isn't helping, so the question is what to do next: stick with him, or go with the other guy. The answer is simple.

 

[the cac mamba]

It's already being repeated

He's Hillary but less electable

HOW DO PEOPLE NOT SEE THIS

how the fukk is biden less electable than clinton

biden crushed bernie in michigan. hillary lost to bernie

 

[Foxmulder]

how the fukk is biden less electable than clinton

biden crushed bernie in michigan. hillary lost to bernie

Dudes is delusional. Only reason Bernie even did well in 16 is because people hated Clinton. People like Biden simple as that no way in hell is he less electable than Clinton.

 

[Pressure]

Sanders people don't understand this. And frankly, nor did Warren stans. This is not an election about plans or policy. It's a complete referendum on the president. This was true before the coronavirus but is even more true now. Trump's handling of this is going to determine the election. And based on everything we've seen so far, and what is projected to happen in the coming weeks/months, I think it's safe to say it will be a disaster for him. He already fukked up the preparation. He has fukked up the response, and will likely continue to do so. Meanwhile bodies are stacking up daily...a thousand a day in many cases.

This is gonna come down to...who do the American people think can handle this crisis. The idea that Biden isn't the best speaker or can't do xyz are irrelevant at this point. Nothing more than troll shyt for Trump (and Sanders) chaos agents to peddle online. People are losing their lives, income, and businesses. It's clear the guy in office isn't helping, so the question is what to do next: stick with him, or go with the other guy. The answer is simple.

I agree. At the end of the day people are going to walk into the voting booth and answer the question, is Trump who you want to handle any emergency that comes up in the next 4 years?

In 2018 the top mover was putting a check on Trump despite a sizable portion of voters who wanted to put a check on Trump still supporting Trump.

If those same people no longer trust him running the country it's a rap.

Biden's return to normalcy campaign works well when put against Trump's unorthodox failures.

 

[A Cop]

Boots makes a good point. Biden has to chill in his house whether Bernie drops out or not.

 

[Piff Perkins]

Boots makes a good point. Biden has to chill in his house whether Bernie drops out or not.

Bernie, who has struggled to get 40% of the vote in many states, is gonna magically win 60% of the remaining votes from here on you. Yea man that's a logical path, Boots.


I don't even think Bernie should drop. I agree it doesn't matter much. Politics don't matter outside of Trump right now, no matter what. Biden is the presumed nominee and Bernie's path is damn near mathematically impossible...but even if he dropped out nothing really changes. This is the Trump show, and the country is gonna watch until it's time to turn it off in November on election day.

 

[A Cop]

This is the Trump show, and the country is gonna watch until it's time to turn it off in November on election day.

Polls closed due to pandemic. USPS out of business, mail-in ballots impossible.

Trump remains president until he dies of old age or chokes on a well done steak.

 

[wire28]

If you've always viewed yourself as an outsider and operated as an outsider how do you expect your absence to matter? That's like me not going to a business I never went to as a form of protest. I doubt it makes a difference in the end unless their customers stop going.

Wouldn't it be better for those customers to start their own business than boycott a business they never patroned?

ive already brought this up several times over the months/years. the idiocy of trying to take over a party which you are insistent doesnt meet your values and is corrupt makes no sense.

the idiocy is further worsened by the defensive logic that you have no other choice but to join/take over the party, even though you've spent years touting your belief that your political ideologies are so superior they would appeal to everyone

once you realize you are talking to a self righteous, elitist and not so ironically self harming brick wall who refuses even consider alternative points of view, you can focus your time on other matters and save the key strokes

 

[A Cop]

Bernie is not dropping out because the sooner he does so, the moreso corporations get to determine the entirety of the party's policies.