FAH1223

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Dave Weigel in the Washington Post on the British election and the US 2020 Election on the link below:


EVERYBODY IS WRONG

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British Prime Minister Boris Johnson holds a sign as he arrives at a Dec. 2 rally in Colchester, England. (Hannah McKay/AP)

On Friday morning, Americans found out that the United Kingdom had relocated somewhere between the Great Lakes. The governing Conservative Party had won its fourth election in a row and its largest majority since the 1980s. Whether British voters knew it or not, they were sending coded messages to the Democrats.

“Look what happens when the Labour Party moves so, so far to the left,” said Joe Biden. “Jeremy Corbyn’s catastrophic showing in the U.K. is a clear warning,” said Mike Bloomberg, referring to the left-wing Labour Party's leader. The two moderate Democrats were echoed by commentators arguing that the election “show[ed] the limits of the Twitter Left” or proved that “wokeness” would kill the Democrats in a 2020 election.

The election was traumatic for America’s left-wing movements, especially its resurgent socialists, who adored Corbyn. His 2015 takeover of the party mirrored the rise of Bernie Sanders, and Sanders himself welcomed the comparison. After the 2017 election, when Labour scored its highest vote in a decade, America’s left saw vindication: Milquetoast liberals lost elections; anti-austerity socialists could win them.

“We got our Bernie,” said Marcus Barnett, an organizer with Momentum (a left-wing campaign organization formed to help Labour win) at the 2017 convention of Democratic Socialists of America. “Don’t give up hope. Your time is coming now.” That optimism kept up through Thursday afternoon, with Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), a Sanders endorser, and former Ohio state senator Nina Turner, a Sanders campaign co-chair, tweeting their support of Labour.

What happened in two years? Some trends, such as Labour’s decline with white voters in postindustrial Britain, mirrored what has happened in America — coal towns went Conservative, just as West Virginia and Minnesota’s Iron Range have gone Republican. Labour gained in big cities, suburbs and university towns, just as Democrats have shed votes in rural Pennsylvania while building electoral steamrollers in the suburbs of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.

But Labour’s particular weakness came from developments with no American analog. Scotland, a Labour stronghold for decades, fell in 2015 to the Scottish Nationalist Party; imagine California suddenly giving its votes to a breakaway party, not the Democrats, and the problem is obvious. Corbyn, who marched for every left-wing cause of his lifetime, took positions that Sanders wouldn't, such as opposition to NATO and the re-nationalization of energy companies. And Corbyn was tangled again and again in allegations of anti-Semitism and of not doing enough to stamp it out in the party.

The Labour Party that fought that 2017 election was deeply skeptical of Corbyn, riven by the sort of infighting that made the 2016 Democratic primary look tame. It got worse over time. This year, nine Labour MPs bolted the party, citing concerns about Corbyn's leadership in general, and the anti-Semitism controversy in particular.

All of that hurt, but Brexit made it worse. The 2016 vote to leave the European Union scrambled the country's map. Outside London and Scotland, many historically Labour communities, skeptical of trade, globalization and in many cases immigration, backed Leave. Labour's 2017 position on Brexit was no more complicated than the Conservatives': The country had voted, and it was time to get the best possible deal.

“The question now is what sort of Brexit do we want,” Corbyn would say, arguing that Labour would focus on a “jobs-first” exit from the European Union.

At the time, that stopped the Conservatives, then led by Theresa May, from making real gains with Leave voters. What really hurt was the governing party's manifesto. (British political parties, unlike ours, run closely on their party platforms.) Leave campaigners had promised that quitting the European Union would lead to millions more in funding for the National Health Service. The manifesto didn't deliver, instead piling on more means-testing for services. Corbyn turned the election into a choice between “austerity” and generous benefits, reversing years of business-friendly tax cuts.

It nearly worked. Corbyn's Labour smashed turnout models in 2017, winning 40 percent of the vote, the party's highest total in 16 years. Never popular, he was briefly seen more positively than May.

And then it fell apart. The Brexit saga isn't worth getting deeply into here, but Labour suffered as the debate over leaving the E.U. dragged on. Pro-Leave voters who stuck with the party grew angry as Labour denied votes to potential deals, repeatedly delaying an E.U. exit. (Read Sebastian Payne's thread of conversations with disaffected Labour voters). The Conservatives entered the election with a promise to “get Brexit done,” while Labour's new position was that it would renegotiate a deal and put it up to a new national referendum.

Johnson avoided the mistakes of 2017, promising to hire more nurses and otherwise protect the NHS. Given a choice between a widely disliked Corbyn and his muddled Brexit position and an only slightly unpopular Johnson who promised to increase services and make Britain carbon-neutral, pro-Leave Labour voters walked away; many pro-Remain voters went for the Scottish National Party or the Liberal Democrats, options with no equal in American politics.

If the 2017 election validated the left's theory of politics, this election validated Johnson's version of populism: less immigration, more nationalism, and more wealth to spread around at home. Trump, an on-again/off-again fan of Johnson, is all in on the nationalism. And an underrated factor in Trump's 2016 victory was his willingness to abandon Republican norms on Social Security, Medicare and trade. But he hasn't shown the same flexibility on “entitlements” since then, giving back an advantage to Democrats.

Britain's election has plenty of lessons for Republicans, who are unlikely to adopt them because it would mean abandoning their fiscal and social welfare policies. It has warnings, but few lessons, for Democrats; the problems that broke Labour may be specific to the U.K.
 

Warren Moon

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took positions that Sanders wouldn't, such as opposition to NATO and the re-nationalization of energy companies.”

I like Bernies realness, but he’s pushed nationalizing energy for decades now. That line isn’t true and just a lie
 

FAH1223

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took positions that Sanders wouldn't, such as opposition to NATO and the re-nationalization of energy companies.”

I like Bernies realness, but he’s pushed nationalizing energy for decades now. That line isn’t true and just a lie
Bernie isn’t calling for nationalizing energy en masse in this campaign or in his 2016 campaign.

Bernie would be at the center left part of the British Labour Party.
 

Warren Moon

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Bernie isn’t calling for nationalizing energy en masse in this campaign or in his 2016 campaign.

Bernie would be at the center left part of the British Labour Party.

I mean he doesn’t talk about it in debates. But It’s in his agenda.

:whoa: I know a lot of y’all get mad when I show you what your candidates actually believe. So please don’t take this personally.

Bernie Sanders unveils $16.3 trillion climate plan. TRANSCRIPT: 8/22/19, All In w/ Chris Hayes.

Bernie Sanders wants to nationalize clean energy


He was praised for it.
 

Pressure

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Is there anything Bernie could do to get the Dem establishment on his side? :mjlol:


How about Bernie winning over mainstream democratic voters.

The reality is he lost last time and trails this time because he doesn't resonate with the voters as well as you all would like to believe.

Bernie Sanders has caucused with he dems longer than most of his target base has been alive.

This narrative needs to die.
 

FAH1223

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I mean he doesn’t talk about it in debates. But It’s in his agenda.

:whoa: I know a lot of y’all get mad when I show you what your candidates actually believe. So please don’t take this personally.

Bernie Sanders unveils $16.3 trillion climate plan. TRANSCRIPT: 8/22/19, All In w/ Chris Hayes.

Bernie Sanders wants to nationalize clean energy


He was praised for it.
Yeah that’s about the green new deal but I was referring to like nationalizing the fossil fuel companies existing right now
 

Warren Moon

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Yeah that’s about the green new deal but I was referring to like nationalizing the fossil fuel companies existing right now

He Effectively eliminating pretty much all fossil fuel industries (Banning fracking, banning off shore drilling, banning selling oil outside the us, banning nuclear new nuclear energy, banning subsidies to fossil fuels, banning current and new leases for fossil
Fuels on public land, banning coal mining on mountain tops) so effectively putting as much financial And legal restriction As possible on fossil fuel companies until they fail; replacing them with sustainable energy ones. Then nationalizing all The sustainable energy ones.

So he’s nationalizing all energy in the us.



I provided the entire transcript. :whoa: And here’s a link to
His plan. Bernie Sanders on Energy Policy Just in case u say I’m spreading disinformation again.

these are the facts.


Personally I think we should have more sustainable energy companies by providing better subsidies. Complete dependence on certain solar companies within a rapidly innovating industry like solar/wind is how we end up with a Solyndra again. I’m anti nationalizing solar, governments kill innovation and sustainable energy companies have new Groundbreaking innovations every 4-5 years. Let them innovate privately. :ld:

Also dems need to realize, most pro or anti fossil fuel and/or solar/wind energy initiatives are driven by money, pure profit. They’ll get “scientists” to agree with whatever side they’re pushing to make some cold hard cash.
 

FAH1223

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NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Poll
(12/9 - 12/11)

Biden 24%
Sanders 22%.
Warren 17%
Buttigieg 13%
Yang 5%
Klobuchar 4%
Booker 4%
Bloomberg 4%
Castro 1%
Gabbard 1%
Bennet 1%
Patrick <1%
Steyer <1%
Williamson <1%
Delaney <1%

Polled 704 Dem & Dem-leaning Indep

MoE +/- 05.4%

76% surveyed are open to changing their mind.
 

NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong

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Uncertain grounds



NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Poll
(12/9 - 12/11)

Biden 24%
Sanders 22%.
Warren 17%
Buttigieg 13%
Yang 5%
Klobuchar 4%
Booker 4%
Bloomberg 4%
Castro 1%
Gabbard 1%
Bennet 1%
Patrick <1%
Steyer <1%
Williamson <1%
Delaney <1%

Polled 704 Dem & Dem-leaning Indep

MoE +/- 05.4%

76% surveyed are open to changing their mind.


Debate Tracker said it would be a qualifying poll

Anybody who pick Yang as a VP
def gonna lose.

:russ:

Na, other than bernie he has the most grassroots support. He would be a good pick. Maybe not a great pick, but a good pick
 

hashmander

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When Obama won twice I remember how Conservatives we’re mad at the EC.

With an unpopular incumbent POTUS, I feel the Dems have more paths to 270. While Trump has a narrow path.
well when obama won twice they were mad at everything. being mad at the electoral college when you also lose the popular vote doesn't even make any sense.
 
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