2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

dora_da_destroyer

dora_da_destroyer

Master Baker
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
65,565
Reputation
16,302
Daps
269,487
Reppin
Oakland
King Kreole said:
I think that money would have been spent fighting a public option if M4A wasn't in the public consciousness anyway, just like it was spent fighting the ACA. I don't think M4A has poisoned the concept of public coverage at all, I think it has strengthened it. It doesn't have universal approval from the entire population right now, but it has provoked a positive shift in the way people think about healthcare as a basic right. People are becoming familiar with the idea of single-payer, universal healthcare, even if they don't fully agree with it right now. M4A has normalized these goals and principles. It hasn't made the next Dem President implementing a public option harder, it's made it easier because now the public option can be sold as a compromise position. Basically, looking at the healthcare conversation with M4A present and the hypothetical conversation without M4A present, I think the average person is more likely to support a public option in the former conversation than the latter. Makes change much easier to swallow because the public option is no longer the radical position.

M4A is only a losing proposition if you take the position of "M4A or Bust". I think the real problem you're describing is a vocal, radical minority of M4A supporters who are becoming divorced from reality and are using M4A as a cudgel in a related but adjacent culture war, which is why they've lost the plot and are trading in absurd theories about how the political process works. They don't see M4A as a health care policy, they see it primarily as a litmus test designed to promote their preferred primary candidate.
Click to expand...
it would have, but i don't think health care/pharma would have been as successful with a more palatable option being explained to the public

again, same thing would have been accomplished by introducing a realistic plan, one that didn't start off talking about we're taking private insurance away, and one that wasn't also convoluted in immigration talk - we're also going to insure people here illegally who aren't paying taxes into the system we're taxing you to build!

quite literally some people are, the whole segment of those in the bernie camp who attacked liz's plan and compromise, they act as if bernie becomes president and viola---- free health care on day 2

anyway, i think some policies you need to come out and discuss realistically, as in what can be done in your one term (being that two is no guarantee). M4A as such a big lynchpin of this cycle has always bothered me because it's not happening and i'd rather hear real policies be presented so i can vote based on what people actually can/will pursue, not the ideal they hold upon high
 
King Kreole

King Kreole

natural blondie like goku
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
15,842
Reputation
4,503
Daps
43,625
dora_da_destroyer said:
it would have, but i don't think health care/pharma would have been as successful with a more palatable option being explained to the public

again, same thing would have been accomplished by introducing a realistic plan, one that didn't start off talking about we're taking private insurance away, and one that wasn't also convoluted in immigration talk - we're also going to insure people here illegally who aren't paying taxes into the system we're taxing you to build!

quite literally some people are, the whole segment of those in the bernie camp who attacked liz's plan and compromise, they act as if bernie becomes president and viola---- free health care on day 2

anyway, i think some policies you need to come out and discuss realistically, as in what can be done in your one term (being that two is no guarantee). M4A as such a big lynchpin of this cycle has always bothered me because it's not happening and i'd rather hear real policies be presented so i can vote based on what people actually can/will pursue, not the ideal they hold upon high
Click to expand...
I don't really have a problem with campaigning on a vision of what your ideal end-state is. Planting a flag and letting your ideals be known is important for the mobilization of popular will to actually get to that destination. People sing songs of home on long journeys for this reason.

A very important element of M4A - and arguably its most disruptive element - is essentially eliminating the private insurance industry, so that should be foregrounded when discussing the plan. There's really no way to avoid talking about that. Same with the insurance of illegal immigrants that comes with truly universal coverage, although this is less necessary than eliminating private insurance. Ultimately, it seems like you're saying M4A (as it's currently constructed) isn't what you believe to be the optimal healthcare policy outcome.

And yeah, I definitely agree that M4A is taking up perhaps too much space in this primary, even if I think healthcare is the most important issue. There are a bunch of other really important issues that need to be discussed as well. But this is primarily a failure of the journalistic class in my opinion. And yeah, I think I've made my disagreement with those elements of the Bernie camp very clear. A lot of people are acting politically immature when it comes to this.
 
dora_da_destroyer

dora_da_destroyer

Master Baker
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
65,565
Reputation
16,302
Daps
269,487
Reppin
Oakland
King Kreole said:
I don't really have a problem with campaigning on a vision of what your ideal end-state is. Planting a flag and letting your ideals be known is important for the mobilization of popular will to actually get to that destination. People sing songs of home on long journeys for this reason.

A very important element of M4A - and arguably its most disruptive element - is essentially eliminating the private insurance industry, so that should be foregrounded when discussing the plan. There's really no way to avoid talking about that. Same with the insurance of illegal immigrants that comes with truly universal coverage, although this is less necessary than eliminating private insurance. Ultimately, it seems like you're saying M4A (as it's currently constructed) isn't what you believe to be the optimal healthcare policy outcome.

And yeah, I definitely agree that M4A is taking up perhaps too much space in this primary, even if I think healthcare is the most important issue. There are a bunch of other really important issues that need to be discussed as well. But this is primarily a failure of the journalistic class in my opinion. And yeah, I think I've made my disagreement with those elements of the Bernie camp very clear. A lot of people are acting politically immature when it comes to this.
Click to expand...
No, I don’t. Thus I’ve never been a proponent of M4A, and a lot of people are like me. But instead of being engaged in politics and understanding there are other ways to reform healthcare, many of them are simply over the healthcare debate because they don’t agree with it and no compromise/alternative plan has gotten much air time thus people are writing off the whole thing and are find staying with the status quo. that’s why I feel like hinging the healthcare debate on m4a was a mistake.
 
dtownreppin214

dtownreppin214

l'immortale
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
56,064
Reputation
10,662
Daps
193,036
Reppin
Shags & Leathers
full


This is why Trump got Giuliani going around the world like Carmen Sandiego.
 
P

Prince.Skeletor

Don’t Be Like He-Man
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
28,924
Reputation
-7,164
Daps
56,272
Reppin
Bucktown
if this video struck a chord with you then your chords suck!
what is up with the comments saying this is a good ad?

his message is "vote for me because i'm not the other guy", what is great about that?

shouldnt you all be praising ads that actually speaks on solutions?

no clear message is what was a weakness for hillary and a reason why kamala dropped out.
what is good here?
 
FAH1223

FAH1223

Go Wizards, Go Terps, Go Packers!
Staff member
Supporter
Hall of Fame
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
74,594
Reputation
8,701
Daps
224,227
Reppin
WASHINGTON, DC
BrownSkin Intellect said:
if this video struck a chord with you then your chords suck!
what is up with the comments saying this is a good ad?

his message is "vote for me because i'm not the other guy", what is great about that?

shouldnt you all be praising ads that actually speaks on solutions?

no clear message is what was a weakness for hillary and a reason why kamala dropped out.
what is good here?
Click to expand...

On second glance, I agree with you.

But the difference now is that Trump is POTUS and he has a record. Which may hit home more.

but you’re right this type of ad isn’t bringing in new voters
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top