2016 LeBron beats out 1993 MJ in poll for Greatest Finals MVP

[DetroitEWarren]

Prime Lebron is the best player in history.

No matter what LeBron you bring to the table, he will be useless without the ball in his hands.

He's lost multiple series because the ball was stuck to his hands without running an offensive system.

If this shyt has lost so many times, why do people think LeBron ball is a better strategy than an actual offensive system where the ball moves?

Wade went from the least assisted player in the NBA to leading the league in ppg off cuts (maybe that was amongst guards, but STAT was out in 11-12 and no other big got buckets off cuts on Wades level, I think he led the NBA).

Without Wade being a more versatile player than Bron, I don't think they win a single ring. They underachieved like a mfer.

 

[Surreal]

Dirk in 2011>>>>

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Crazy part about it, if you go back and watch the '91, '92, and '93 Finals; from a physical standpoint, MJ didn't totally look like himself in '93.You could tell the battle of attrition was starting to wear him down.That '93 Finals version of the Chicago Bulls was the most vulnerable of their 6 title run imo.It's just that the soft Suns were too light in the azz/finesse to capitalize on it.

 

[Diondon]

Was MJ ever in a 1-3 hole in a Finals?

 

[Left.A1]

They no doubt would have been in contention for the best team ever if they completed that championship.. come on now

You believe that that team was BETTER than the Durant teams

 

[seemorecizzy]

ì dont think ppl fully understand what Bron did in that series lol. It hasn't been done in any series in any round in da history of basketball lol

not to mention he did it against one of da best teams ever

 

[jdubnyce]

Only if Jordan had a Kyrie to post bail

 

[jaydawg08]

You believe that that team was BETTER than the Durant teams

I think you’re misreading my post… I said UP TO THAT POINT they would have been the greatest regular season team of all time, and in contention for the greatest ever if they had won that title

 

[Left.A1]

I think you’re misreading my post… I said UP TO THAT POINT they would have been the greatest regular season team of all time, and in contention for the greatest ever if they had won that title

Those voting on this poll have the luxury of hindsight why are you still talking as if it’s pre finals 2016 …we’re in 2024 bruhthey weren’t the best team ever they weren’t even the best Warriors team of that era so why are you even bringing that up as if they are relevant or factual points to begin with.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

No matter what LeBron you bring to the table, he will be useless without the ball in his hands.

Completely false. In Miami, Bron spent significant time off-ball in effective sets.

» The Evolution of King James

grantland.com

I don't have stats for before 2014, but in 2014 he only averaged 5.5 seconds with the ball per possession, 32nd in the league and only slightly more than Wade (3.7) or Chalmers (4.7). Time per touch was even less, he doesn't make the top-50:

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In 2012 and 2013 when Wade wasn't as as he was in 2014, the time of possession for LeBron would have been even less.



In Cleveland 2015 he held the ball a little more, but was still just 20th in the league at 6.5 seconds per possession, the exact same as Kyrie.

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By 2016, he was down to 5.3 seconds/possession, a full second less than Kyrie:

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After Kyrie left in 2018 and there was no one to trust with the Ball, LeBron went up to 6.7 seconds/possession, 10th in the league but still nowhere near the real dominant ballhandlers like Westbrook, Harden, Wall, Lillard, and Kemba (7.8 to 9.1 seconds/possession).

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The most that Bron even held the ball was when he became the full-time point guard in 2020, leading the league in assists. He averaged 7.4 seconds/possession that year, 6th in the league but still fewer than Trae, Luka, Dame, Harden, and Graham (8.2 to 9.1 seconds).

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He's lost multiple series because the ball was stuck to his hands without running an offensive system.

Which coach's offensive system was he failing to run?

Heat had a terrible offensive strategy in 2011, but that was partly personnel (Heat had zero three-point shooters in the starting lineup) and partly coaching inexperience (Spo hadn't come up with anything better than Bron/Wade taking turns). Through 2012-2014, Spo improved and Bron ran the system extremely well.

 

[DetroitEWarren]

Completely false. In Miami, Bron spent significant time off-ball in effective sets.

» The Evolution of King James

grantland.com

I don't have stats for before 2014, but in 2014 he only averaged 5.5 seconds with the ball per possession, 32nd in the league and only slightly more than Wade (3.7) or Chalmers (4.7). Time per touch was even less, he doesn't make the top-50:

Players Touches | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring touches information for each player in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

In 2012 and 2013 when Wade wasn't as as he was in 2014, the time of possession for LeBron would have been even less.



In Cleveland 2015 he held the ball a little more, but was still just 20th in the league at 6.5 seconds per possession, the exact same as Kyrie.

Players Touches | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring touches information for each player in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

By 2016, he was down to 5.3 seconds/possession, a full second less than Kyrie:

Players Touches | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring touches information for each player in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

After Kyrie left in 2018 and there was no one to trust with the Ball, LeBron went up to 6.7 seconds/possession, 10th in the league but still nowhere near the real dominant ballhandlers like Westbrook, Harden, Wall, Lillard, and Kemba (7.8 to 9.1 seconds/possession).

Players Touches | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring touches information for each player in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

The most that Bron even held the ball was when he became the full-time point guard in 2020, leading the league in assists. He averaged 7.4 seconds/possession that year, 6th in the league but still fewer than Trae, Luka, Dame, Harden, and Graham (8.2 to 9.1 seconds).

Players Touches | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring touches information for each player in the league based on selected filters.

www.nba.com

Which coach's offensive system was he failing to run?

Heat had a terrible offensive strategy in 2011, but that was partly personnel (Heat had zero three-point shooters in the starting lineup) and partly coaching inexperience (Spo hadn't come up with anything better than Bron/Wade taking turns). Through 2012-2014, Spo improved and Bron ran the system extremely well.

Great post my guy. Major props. I think you responded to a post I made similar to this years ago.

But............ You didn't reply when I asked about his off ball numbers, in which he has always been one of the worse in the league out of all top tier players. Think about how many times you seen Bron get easy buckets in the half court without the ball. Barely any oop highlights, barely any cuts in any game. Remember, I'm talking half court ONLY. Bron might be the GOAT in transition, with or without the ball, but you can't include that in this conversation.

 

[34TheTruth]

Prime Lebron is the best player in history.

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

And Bron was even better the next two finals. KD just happen to make a healthy Warriors unstoppable.

 

[jaydawg08]

Those voting on this poll have the luxury of hindsight why are you still talking as if it’s pre finals 2016 …we’re in 2024 bruhthey weren’t the best team ever they weren’t even the best Warriors team of that era so why are you even bringing that up as if they are relevant or factual points to begin with.

Because they probably don’t get KD if they win the finals… if they win that chip KD is not a Warrior

 

[Left.A1]

Because they probably don’t get KD if they win the finals… if they win that chip KD is not a Warrior

But they did and you know they did so did the people voting on this poll ....so why are you commenting again as if you don't have the results in front of you as if your in a twilight alternative reality lmao wtf is going on with you bruh