1990s NBA teams vs Current teams.

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The irony of this post is the bulls lost partly because they couldn't matchup with orlando (they were starting a "stretch 4" as you love and he couldn't defend and there were matchup nightmares all over the court). Then the next year they get a guy who couldn't shoot outside 10 feet and they swept that same team :mjlol:
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Joe Sixpack

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I never said anything about LeBron, but this season Harden was a top 3 player. The facts bear out.
top 3 :mjlol:

No one cares about some mythical list.

Everyone knows who the best player in the game is. Everybody after that is just some subjective mythical bullshyt

Harden is a fraud and it will "bear out" over time.
 

NYC Rebel

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I don't get why people think by bringing up HOF player names spread out across the NBA landscape automatically means team play of the era they played in matches their quality as individual players.

Stop marrying the two
 

Joe Sixpack

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I don't get why people think by bringing up HOF player names spread out across the NBA landscape automatically means team play of the era they played in matches their quality as individual players.

Stop marrying the two
I had this very same discussion with some Jplaya ass nikka in the gym I workout out with and he was doin this dumb shyt..

He tried to tell me that Jeff Hornacek is a Hall of Fame player :deadmanny:
 

sportscribe

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top 3 :mjlol:

No one cares about some mythical list.

Everyone knows who the best player in the game is. Everybody after that is just some subjective mythical bullshyt

Harden is a fraud and it will "bear out" over time.

So by best player in the game I'm assuming you're referring to LeBron?

Not that I'd argue with that, but there's also an argument for that guy on the Warriors. It's why we are having this discussion. Opinions as they are like a$$holes...and you got to learn to unclench yours from time to time.
 
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SchoolboyC

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I never said anything about LeBron, but this season Harden was a top 3 player. The facts bear out.

So I'm gonna assume you're saying that Harden was better than Westbrook & AD.

Both of them had better seasons individually than he did, Harden got more MVP votes because A) They missed more games due to injury and B) He played on a better team than them

Anyone who knows how MVP voting works knows that regardless of what type of numbers they're putting up, they're not gonna give that award to someone on a sub-50 win team and they won't come close to winning it. Team success plays as big of a factor if not a bigger factor than the individual play.

So yes, Harden was a consensus top 3 MVP candidate based on the typical criteria the voters have. But that doesn't mean he was a consensus top 3 player this past season.
 

Joe Sixpack

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So by best player in the game I'm assuming you're referring to LeBron?

Not that I'd argue with that, but there also arguments for that guy on the Warriors. It's why we are having this discussion. Opinions as they are like a$$holes...and you got to learn to unclench yours from time to time.
Stephen Curry had a great season and won the MVP but no one would say he is the best player in the game..
 

mbewane

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:dwillhuh:

What relevance does this have - has the ruling on 3-pt attempts/makes changed since the 90s?

Having an average interior player who can score consistently (50 %) is better imo (if said player is willing to work on moves, because you're that closer to the basket) than having an average three point shooter (35 % is closer to the "average" 3 point shooting, only a handfull sniff 45-50 %), because more efficient because the former sets up the game and forces the whole defense to react while the latter doesn't that much. Only teams who won without a serious/reliable offensive interior player since like 20 years are the Mavs (who caught lightning in a bottle) and the Heat (needed a Big 3 + immature Thunder team and Duncan missing a gimme to do it).

It's relevant because you're judging yesterday's game by today's system. If you set up you team to play according to certain rules and style of play, it's obvious that you will perform better than a team set up according to different rules (zone, hand check, defense being at a systematic disadvantage) and different style of play. That's why it makes no sense to imagine a 90s vs Current team, because it's damn near two different leagues.
 

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I don't get why people think by bringing up HOF player names spread out across the NBA landscape automatically means team play of the era they played in matches their quality as individual players.

Stop marrying the two

The NBA is a top-heavy league. You only have a handful of teams that are competitive in any given era, and a valid way to gauge the relative strengths of individual eras is to compare the cream of the crop of each of those eras. At the end of the day, it's why the NBA is a star-driven league. For instance, you can insert many a random player into the Heatles team and they would still have at least one championship. Same with the 90's Bulls and many other championship teams.

That said, when you compare the very best players from this era to previous ones, you have to think the level of talent in certain positions is not the same. The league is definitely better today at the PG position, but it has declined in the C position, and to a much lesser extent, the PF position (now you have PFs with range which can make up for lack of post skills). SF is a top heavy position with LeBron, Durant and Carmelo being the best players here. As I mentioned previously, there is an argument for James Harden being the best 2-guard playing in the NBA today. We are talking about a position that has had Jordan, Kobe, Wade and Iverson in the past few decades.
 
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mbewane

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Part of the reason these teams are shooting this many threes in the first place is lack of efficient post play.

The 2000-01 Lakers shot less threes than every single team in the NBA this season except two. You don't need to shoot threes when you have a dominant big man that will score on nearly every possession when he's in the right position.

Case in point is the 2004-05 Spurs that literally made the LEAST threes out of any team in the league that season, and they went on the win an NBA Championship. What those two teams have in common is dominant big men - Shaq and Duncan. The 90's era Bulls did not have a dominant big man, but they did have the greatest NBA scorer of all time, along with elite wing defense (as did the Spurs with Bowen).There are no dominant big men today that are going to get you points in the paint and mid-range like your Robinsons, Olajuwons, Ewings, Malones, Barkleys etc were able to. The likes of Rik Smits would be a multiple-time all-star today based on statistics. At the end of the day, when the pace of the game is slowed in the playoffs and teams get into their half court sets, team defense becomes the most important aspect of the game. In that regard, the 90's Bulls would smother Curry's Warriors. Curry and Klay are good perimeter defenders, but they are no Jordan and Pippen. Draymond Green is a good role player and workhorse, but he is no Rodman. None of these 2010 era teams would know what to do with a Prime Shaq. The Grizzlies are the closest thing to a 90s era team, and they have been very effective in this era, but lack a dominant scorer - or any scorer for that matter. If they had just one, they would be a Championship contender.

That Seattle Supersonics team that you've listed is pretty solid, and would give most teams in the league today a run for their money. The Knicks team you listed held opponents to 95 pts/game that season, you should really frame some of these points in the right context. While I will agree with the OP that spreading the floor with good perimeter shooters has revolutionized the game somewhat, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is now superior (perhaps offensively it is). These teams still lack the post presence that would force their opponents to double on their dominant center and make their defense collapse.Teams from the 90s had inferior shooting on the wings, but they did have superior post play and defense and the greatest teams have usually been built on that. I guess I will disagree with the premise of this thread, and chalk it up simply to it being a preference for eras. But I am not seeing anything convincing enough to conclude that teams in this era are better than teams from the 90s.

As for this whole nostalgia debate in sports; no one has any problem calling Manning and Brady the greatest QBs of all time or Messi the greatest soccer player of all time, or Federer the greatest tennis player of all time. I think people genuinely feel that the 90s were the golden era of basketball. It's an era that was stacked with Hall of Fame greats and not one where James Harden is a consensus top 3 player in the league.

Agree with every single word here.
 

NYC Rebel

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The NBA is a top-heavy league. You only have a handful of teams that are competitive in any given era, and a valid way to gauge the relative strengths of individual eras is to compare the cream of the crop of each of those eras. At the end of the day, it's why the NBA is a star-driven league. For instance, you can insert many a random player into the Heatles team and they would still have at least one championship. Same with the 90's Bulls and many other championship teams.

That said, when you compare the very best players from this era to previous ones, you have to think the level of talent in certain positions is not the same. The league is definitely better today at the PG position, but it has declined in the C position, and to a much lesser extent, the PF position (now you PFs with range which can make up for lack of post skills). SF is a top heavy position with LeBron, Durant and Carmelo being the best players here. As I mentioned previously, there is an argument for James Harden being the best 2-guard playing in the NBA today. We are talking about a position that has had Jordan, Kobe, Wade and Iverson in the past few decades.
The issue with the 90s is that it became less top heavy and the talent base scattered a bit more. Teams like the Bulls were fortunate that MJ took a shyt salary and Pippens dumb ass was happy making $2 million a year as a Bull or that Bulls team would have scattered about in the Free agency landscape and broke apart like many good teams of the 90s that didn't have a chance to become great.

Saying names alone lacks context. The NBA was a league in flux in the 90s
 
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