prophecypro
Hollywood North
Inside Man?
WHY SPIKE LEE NEVER MADE A FILM GIVING THE BLACK MAN JUSTICE?
- Thread starter gluvnast
- Start date
Once again @gluvnast your logic is faulty from your beginning argument until now. Your initial post is "Why Spike Lee never made a film giving the black man justice?" Your FIRST mistake was to compare Spike Lee's films (namely Malcolm X) to Django Unchained, which given ANY thought whatsoever would have dawned upon you as an absolutely terrible comparison given that Malcolm X is a biopic based upon the TRUE events of a real individuals life while Django Unchained is an exaggerated work of fiction. Your second mistake in logic is equating "Justice" with "Heroism" and insinuating that Spike Lee's films are ultimately negative in their depiction of African Americans.
1). Malcolm X is one of the two greatest modern examples of an African American "Hero" that we have. Malcolm X was a true soldier of struggle and leader in the African American community who preached Self Pride and Afrocentricity at a time period of great cultural and social strife for our people. Malcolm X was a fearless, passionate, masculine, intelligent, and determined individual who, despite his flaws and earlier lifestyle of petty crime, was able, through his own awakening, to help give voice to a generation of beaten and broken people. Spike Lee not ONLY captured the humanity of this man, but he captured the HEROISM of this man's fearless determination to see black people be respected, not only by the white man, but to one another. Spike also depicted the man's ultimate sacrifice in giving his life for his people. There was nothing "negative" in showing the assassination of Malcolm, because in effect Malcolm's sacrifice was no different than what Jesus Christ sacrificed. Malcolm died because he believed until his last breath that his people were WORTH the struggle and pain. What greater example of a "Hero" do you need in cinema? What you think if Spike would've had Malcolm blow up a plantation owner's house in the end, murder every white man in sight, and ride off into the sunset with Betty Shabazz that would've made more heroic?
Did you MISS the entire POINT of the film?
Or are you relying upon a flawed opinion with no basis in FACT?
2). Spike Lee portrays African Americans as complex and flawed individuals, because...well you know....WE ALL as HUMANS are complex and flawed individuals, filled with self doubt and uncertainty. Any "heroism" that we as humans display likely comes with a mixture of mistake and fault. Bleek Gilliam in Mo Better Blues is a flawed, arrogant, misogynistic man who leads two women on throughout the course of the film. He is also passionate, loyal, and good friend who is willing to put his life on the line for his oldest friend. A friend he KNEW had a gambling addiction and most probably deserved the trouble coming his way. Bleak STILL came to the aid of his friend, at great physical injury and cost to his career. Is this not an act of sacrifice? An act of atonement? An act of HEROISM? The fact that in the end the scene of him becoming a better man and allowing his son the childhood freedom that was denied himself shows him coming full circle as an individual showcases that he learned a valuable. Is this not a POSITIVE? No Bleek didn't ride off into the sunset as a famous musician, but he learned and accepted peace of mind as a faithful husband and loving father.
Again, your version of "Heroism" is based upon fantasy. Your definition of "Justice" is also skewed. Do The Right Thing is one of the greatest examples of an angry, frustrated, people attempting to gain justice ever in black cinema. The scene of Mookie throwing that trash can through Sal's window is the DEFINITION of gaining justice when the powers at large deny it to you. Radio Raheem was killed because of an argument he had with a white man. A white man who moved into a BLACK neighborhood, made a living off selling pizza to a BLACK populace, allowed his RACIST Son to display open bigotry to said black populace, and destroyed the property of a BLACK man who was ordering from him. Radio Raheem and Buggin Out were the ones killed and arrested. Sal and sons faced no charges, were not questioned on the incident, were not arrested. Mookie and the crowds frustrated NEED for JUSTICE caused them to destroy Sal's business and burn it to the ground. Was the action that Mookie took a sign of Heroism? Maybe and maybe not. Again, in REALITY the concept of heroism is often not so cut and dry.
Spike Lee's films showcase African Americans as we are, HUMAN. With all the complexities, faults, positives, contradictions, heroisms, and tyranny that we possess as individuals. He showcases the good and bad because that is REALITY. Are you so blind or thirsty for an out and outright black "Hero" that you cannot process the themes expressed in his films? Perhaps you should read a comic book, read Black Panther or Static Shock and you'll have all the black heroism you can handle. Meanwhile us adults will appreciate Spike Lee joints for what they are
#TPC
1). Malcolm X is one of the two greatest modern examples of an African American "Hero" that we have. Malcolm X was a true soldier of struggle and leader in the African American community who preached Self Pride and Afrocentricity at a time period of great cultural and social strife for our people. Malcolm X was a fearless, passionate, masculine, intelligent, and determined individual who, despite his flaws and earlier lifestyle of petty crime, was able, through his own awakening, to help give voice to a generation of beaten and broken people. Spike Lee not ONLY captured the humanity of this man, but he captured the HEROISM of this man's fearless determination to see black people be respected, not only by the white man, but to one another. Spike also depicted the man's ultimate sacrifice in giving his life for his people. There was nothing "negative" in showing the assassination of Malcolm, because in effect Malcolm's sacrifice was no different than what Jesus Christ sacrificed. Malcolm died because he believed until his last breath that his people were WORTH the struggle and pain. What greater example of a "Hero" do you need in cinema? What you think if Spike would've had Malcolm blow up a plantation owner's house in the end, murder every white man in sight, and ride off into the sunset with Betty Shabazz that would've made more heroic?
Did you MISS the entire POINT of the film? Or are you relying upon a flawed opinion with no basis in FACT?2). Spike Lee portrays African Americans as complex and flawed individuals, because...well you know....WE ALL as HUMANS are complex and flawed individuals, filled with self doubt and uncertainty. Any "heroism" that we as humans display likely comes with a mixture of mistake and fault. Bleek Gilliam in Mo Better Blues is a flawed, arrogant, misogynistic man who leads two women on throughout the course of the film. He is also passionate, loyal, and good friend who is willing to put his life on the line for his oldest friend. A friend he KNEW had a gambling addiction and most probably deserved the trouble coming his way. Bleak STILL came to the aid of his friend, at great physical injury and cost to his career. Is this not an act of sacrifice? An act of atonement? An act of HEROISM? The fact that in the end the scene of him becoming a better man and allowing his son the childhood freedom that was denied himself shows him coming full circle as an individual showcases that he learned a valuable. Is this not a POSITIVE? No Bleek didn't ride off into the sunset as a famous musician, but he learned and accepted peace of mind as a faithful husband and loving father.
Again, your version of "Heroism" is based upon fantasy. Your definition of "Justice" is also skewed. Do The Right Thing is one of the greatest examples of an angry, frustrated, people attempting to gain justice ever in black cinema. The scene of Mookie throwing that trash can through Sal's window is the DEFINITION of gaining justice when the powers at large deny it to you. Radio Raheem was killed because of an argument he had with a white man. A white man who moved into a BLACK neighborhood, made a living off selling pizza to a BLACK populace, allowed his RACIST Son to display open bigotry to said black populace, and destroyed the property of a BLACK man who was ordering from him. Radio Raheem and Buggin Out were the ones killed and arrested. Sal and sons faced no charges, were not questioned on the incident, were not arrested. Mookie and the crowds frustrated NEED for JUSTICE caused them to destroy Sal's business and burn it to the ground. Was the action that Mookie took a sign of Heroism? Maybe and maybe not. Again, in REALITY the concept of heroism is often not so cut and dry.
Spike Lee's films showcase African Americans as we are, HUMAN. With all the complexities, faults, positives, contradictions, heroisms, and tyranny that we possess as individuals. He showcases the good and bad because that is REALITY. Are you so blind or thirsty for an out and outright black "Hero" that you cannot process the themes expressed in his films? Perhaps you should read a comic book, read Black Panther or Static Shock and you'll have all the black heroism you can handle. Meanwhile us adults will appreciate Spike Lee joints for what they are
#TPC
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then explain DJANGO
He's impulsive.
It's why Stephen catches him reaching for his gun when Candie exposes Hildy's back.
This nikka Ziggiy is a monster
Honestly yes. Thats what made the blaxploitation films so special at the time. Thats what made the Cosby Show so groundbreaking. And some black folks have criticized both for not being true to life. You're acting like we have a ton of examples to choose from.
The whole point of fiction is that you get to write whatever you want. But a lot of black writers and filmmakers feel obligated to focus on the "woe is us/ life sure is hard for black folks" themes (I'm being facetious before ya'll call me a c00n) cuz if they don't drive that point home they feel like they are somehow denying reality or letting white folks off the hook...and thats valid.
But theres room for other shyt too. Lots of room. Matter fact most of the room is for the other shyt, thats why black people happily spend money on white films every single day. Its storytelling, and people like "happy" stories.
This same debate goes on with the messages in black music. Hip Hop was called the black CNN. Even RnB love songs have to include the nikkas other girlfriend cuz thats "real"
For some reason black culture keeps a very thin line between entertainment and education/reality. Some fantasy would be nice (beyond lying about how much money you have).Edit: And this has nothing do with Spike Lee specifically. I like Spike Lee's movies, sometimes.
Data-Hawk
I have no strings on me.
superman disagrees.
He does have a weakness; it's kryptonite. That's part of the reason why Superman's not all that interesting, and nearly all of the Superman movies suck.
Honestly yes. Thats what made the blaxploitation films so special at the time. Thats what made the Cosby Show so groundbreaking. And some black folks have criticized both for not being true to life. You're acting like we have a ton of examples to choose from.
The whole point of fiction is that you get to write whatever you want. But a lot of black writers and filmmakers feel obligated to focus on the "woe is us/ life sure is hard for black folks" themes (I'm being facetious before ya'll call me a c00n) cuz if they don't drive that point home they feel like they are somehow denying reality or letting white folks off the hook...and thats valid.
But theres room for other shyt too. Lots of room. Matter fact most of the room is for the other shyt, thats why black people happily spend money on white films every single day. Its storytelling, and people like "happy" stories.
This same debate goes on with the messages in black music. Hip Hop was called the black CNN. Even RnB love songs have to include the nikkas other girlfriend cuz thats "real"
Edit: And this has nothing do with Spike Lee specifically. I like Spike Lee's movies, sometimes.
And I can respect and agree with your opinion. You however, took my quote ENTIRELY out of context and if you would've read the entire post you'd see that. My post was in regards to the topic creator erroneously comparing a work of PURE fiction to a Biopic, which stresses the FACTS of an individuals life (or course with some alterations) and using that as the basis for an argument that Spike Lee doesn't potray black Americans as "Heroic" or in a "positive" manner which is ludicrous. Criticizing Spike Lee in that manner, when he essentially FOUGHT for the right to make Malcolm X, first against a white director that the studio wanted and then against the studio itself over budgetary concerns. Malcolm X again, is one of THE TWO MOST FOREFRONT African American Heroes of the modern era, and Spike Lee doesn't make movies about black heroes? REAL LIFE black heroes!!??!??
where is the logic?#TPC
Or Batman. Or Jason Bourne. Or James Bond etc etc
BTW I don't think ya'll are being clear when you're talking about flaws and faults. Most characters have "flaws" in their history, its usually whats driving the plot. Batman lost his parents, Superman lost his planet, Django lost his wife etc etc
But I think what the threadstarter is talking about is black characters who just get to "win" outright in the end like white characters usually do. Kill their enemies and go home happy. Django got to do that where most black characters would have been killed so it could be "realistic"...
Yup I did. And thats why I threw the edit in at the end. I don't really care to discuss Spike Lee's catalog of characters I just wanted to focus on that one point to explain I liked Django so much.
Yup I did. And thats why I threw the edit in at the end. I don't really care to discuss Spike Lee's catalog of characters I just wanted to focus on that one point to explain I liked Django so much.
Yes I enjoyed Django as well, enjoyed it immensely and really can't wait to see it again. I however, would NEVER compare this work of "fiction" to Malcolm X or any other Spike Lee film as it would make zero sense. I will not either, award Quentin Tarantino any sort of praise for providing a "Black Hero" who gets to walk off into the sunset just because us negroes are so "starved" for a hero that we'll give special precedent of this film over the works of a black man who has successfully brought to film many instances of REALISTIC portrayals of black heroes, heroism, and multi-dimensional characterization. Naw, fukk that, Django is an entertaining work of fantasy, nothing else.
For instance, I'd love to see more movies based upon heroic black fantasy characters. I desperately want to see a Black Panther film for example. Would I go see a black panther film and then say "Why Can't Spike Lee ever make us Heroes???!!!" No I wouldn't, because that would be RETARDED...
An example of Spike Lee in REAL LIFE using his platform to help Black Journalists.
Mr. Lee, in a telephone interview, spoke heatedly about his request for black interviewers. "I'm doing what every other person in Hollywood does: they dictate who they want to do interviews with," he said. "Tom Cruise, Robert Redford, whoever. People throw their weight around. Well, I get many requests now for interviews, and I would like African-Americans to interview me."
He added: "Spike Lee has never said he only wants black journalists to interview him. What I'm doing is using whatever clout I have to get qualified African-Americans assignments. The real crime is white publications don't have black writers, that's the crime." Mr. Lee said black journalists would be more responsive and sympathetic to the events of "Malcolm X," starring Denzel Washington as the slain black leader. The 3-hour-21-minute film opens on Nov. 18.
Ms. Lyne said: "We had a lot of discussion. There were a lot of people in the office who were horrified that he would insist on a black writer for the story. I felt differently. Had we had a history of putting a lot of black writers on stories about the movie industry we'd be in a stronger position. But we didn't. It was an interesting challenge he laid down. It caused some personnel changes. We've hired a black writer and a black editor." Acquiescence? 'An Exception'
Four weeks before the opening of his widely anticipated film "Malcolm X," Spike Lee, the director, has laid down a challenge to newspapers, magazines and television stations around the country. He has told them that he prefers black journalists to interview him.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/29/movies/spike-lee-s-request-black-interviewers-only.html?src=pm
Now THAT is an act of positivity from a Black Man on behalf of the Black journalist community at large. And you want to actually accuse THIS man of having negative themes/opinions/intentions of black culture?
#TPC
Money Talks?
Agreed. The premise of this thread is retarded but I think theres a valid point.
that's EXACTLY whut i am talking about. spike lee typically portrays black people at VICTIMS or playing up to the stereotypes or other negative imagery placed upon black people.
hell, hardly we don't have any black HEROS as it is, not to honor US. most of our "heros" serve for white people. never really anyone representing US.
i used QT's django, because that's the 1st time i've seen a true BLACK hero in a long ass time. and you got someone like SPIKE lee who has the creative freedom to at least TRY to make a film in which the black man is the unequivocal hero. like i said, the closest he done was malcolm x...and even that resorted in tragedy.
whut is wrong with having a film where the black man RISES to the top? representing for HIS people?
