I believe that dude @Blackking may know it as well.
and really, it's not something boring to read or anything like that.... most people can learn and memorize it.. children under 12 years old learn it all over the world.
Why didn't Muhammad appoint a successor?
- Thread starter The War Report
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and really, it's not something boring to read or anything like that.... most people can learn and memorize it.. children under 12 years old learn it all over the world.
Elle Driver
Veteran
Because of arrogance, basically certain people felt that the successor should be from his blood line (like the royals did), others felt it should be the most knowledgeable. It's like whoever leads the prayer is supposed to be the one with the most knowledge of the religion basically.
And I believe there was no successor because God told him that basically there will be 72 different versions of Islam and only one will lead to heaven, the rest will lead to hell. So they were all left to their own devices.
I'm pretty sure Mohamed acknowledge that his first wife was a great business woman with a keen eye, but yeah you're right Muslim women aren't treated that well despite what they may have you believe.
aren't you a woman?
and you're not 100% about how that all played out... and I live next to a large Muslim area... most of the women seem to be treated fairly.
Elle Driver
Veteran
Yeah I am a woman, they may be treated fairly but it's not equal at all. I mean I'm not Muslim and they can do whatever the hell they want, let's just call a spade a spade.
In the 3rd world areas of our planet women usually aren't equal, but that's is more cultural than religious, the religion is used to enforce it. In places with normal civilization - usually - women are treated More fairly. tbh, I travel a lot and do business a lot.. I speak candidly with rich old cac and all sorts of people - I don't feel that women are even equal in America.. at least not in certain industries and areas of society. look at crazy young women on TV, and look at how many successful business women have sucked that 1 dikk early in their career - shyts not equal. look at music, and look at Earth.Yeah I am a woman, they may be treated fairly but it's not equal at all. I mean I'm not Muslim and they can do whatever the hell they want, let's just call a spade a spade.
The way I see it is, if you do live in a normal place ... as a women you have a greater chance at equality and fairness and basically having all your needs taken care of if ur w a Muslim guy who is truly practicing - because he wants to do and and has to do it per his beliefs.
Muslims are so in denial.
Bruh, if you "standardize" something, you're changing at least one existing version of something relative to another version of something.
The Quran was corrupted bruh.
Elle Driver
Veteran
Are you Muslim?
I'm not saying in America women are treated fairly, I mean come on, there's some statistic out there that 1 in 4 women or something are raped in their life time in America. Rape culture, victim blaming, slut shaming etc. is really prevalent here. You've got crazy pro-life people out there that believe that they somehow have a say in what women do with their reproductive organs and their bodies. Let's not even get started with the wage gap.
I'm just saying, women are not treated equally in Islam, and I'm sorry that's just the truth. How come a man can marry four wives but a woman can't do the same? He doesn't even have to inform or ask his wife to marry another woman, and marriage contracts (which Islam really did have a hand in popularizing) forbids the idea of preventing your husband from marrying another woman. Plus, did you know that if you refuse sex with your husband (if it's not life threatening or you're not menstruating or something) then the angels basically curse you? That's rape and Islam allows it. Rape is non-consensual sex.
ADevilYouKhow
Rhyme Reason
Muhammad was playing the long game
Muslims are so in denial.
Bruh, if you "standardize" something, you're changing at least one existing version of something relative to another version of something.
The Quran was corrupted bruh.
You're the one in denial. Nothing was changed and this is in history.
As Islam began to spread throughout the Arabian peninsula, more and more people entered the fold of Islam from as far away as Persia and Byzantine. Many of these new Muslims were not native Arabic speakers, or they spoke a slightly different Arabic pronunciation from the tribes in Makkah and Madinah. People began to dispute about pronunciation. Uthman took charge of ensuring that the recitation of the Quran is of a standard pronunciation.
The first step was to borrow the original, compiled copy of the Quran from Hafsah. A committee of early Muslim scribes was tasked with making transcripts of the original copy, and ensuring the sequence of the chapters (surahs). When these perfect copies had been completed, Uthman bin Affan ordered all remaining transcripts to be destroyed, so that all copies of the Quran were uniform in script.
The Verses are the same. Muslims have been reciting these verses in Arabic since the Prophet. The 5 daily prayers, reciting the whole Quran during Ramadan, and other special occasions. How would you know how a person keeps the Quran memorized? There's a lot of review and cross checking between student and teacher. The Propher oversaw all of these Qurans that were there in his life time. Uthman didn't change a single thing.
Later, some minor improvements were made in the Arabic script (adding dots and diacritical marks), to make it easier for non-Arabs to read. However, the text of the Quran has remained the same.
One of the most common myths about the Qur’an, is that Usman (r.a.), the third Caliph of Islam authenticated and compiled one Qur’an, from a large set of mutually contradicting copies. The Qur’an, revered as the Word of Allah (swt) by Muslims the world over, is the same Qur’an as the one revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It was authenticated and written under his personal supervision. We will examine the roots of the myth which says that Usman (r.a.) had the Qur’an authenticated.Muslims are so in denial.
Bruh, if you "standardize" something, you're changing at least one existing version of something relative to another version of something.
The Quran was corrupted bruh.
1. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself supervised and authenticated the written texts of the Qur’an
Whenever the Prophet received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions (R.A. – Radhi Allahu Taala Anhu) – May Allah be pleased with him who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was an Ummi who could not read and write. Therefore, after receiving each revelation, he would repeat it to his Companions. They would write down the revelation, and he would recheck by asking them to read what they had written. If there was any mistake, the Prophet would immediately point it out and have it corrected and rechecked. Similarly he would even recheck and authenticate the portions of the Qur’an memorized by the Companions. In this way, the complete Qur’an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (pbuh).
2. Order and sequence of Qur’an divinely inspired
The complete Qur’an was revealed over a period of 22½ years portion by portion, as and when it was required. The Qur’an was not compiled by the Prophet in the chronological order of revelation. The order and sequence of the Qur’an too was Divinely inspired and was instructed to the Prophet by Allah (swt) through archangel Jibraeel. Whenever a revelation was conveyed to his companions, the Prophet would also mention in which surah (chapter) and after which ayat (verse) this new revelation should fit.
Every Ramadhaan all the portions of the Qur’an that had been revealed, including the order of the verses, were revised and reconfirmed by the Prophet with archangel Jibraeel. During the last Ramadhaan, before the demise of the Prophet, the Qur’an was rechecked and reconfirmed twice.
It is therefore clearly evident that the Qur’an was compiled and authenticated by the Prophet himself during his lifetime, both in the written form as well as in the memory of several of his Companions.
3. Qur’an copied on one common material
The complete Qur’an, along with the correct sequence of the verses, was present during the time of the Prophet (pbuh). The verses however, were written on separate pieces, scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades, etc. After the demise of the prophet, Abu Bakr (r.a.), the first caliph of Islam ordered that the Qur’an be copied from the various different materials on to a common material and place, which was in the shape of sheets. These were tied with strings so that nothing of the compilation was lost.
4. Usman (r.a.) made copies of the Qur’an from the original manuscript
Many Companions of the Prophet used to write down the revelation of the Qur’an on their own whenever they heard it from the lips of the Prophet. However what they wrote was not personally verified by the Prophet and thus could contain mistakes. All the verses revealed to the Prophet may not have been heard personally by all the Companions. There were high possibilities of different portions of the Qur’an being missed by different Companions. This gave rise to disputes among Muslims regarding the different contents of the Qur’an during the period of the third Caliph Usman (r.a.).
Usman (r.a.) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur’an, which was authorized by the beloved Prophet (pbuh), from Hafsha (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet’s wife. Usman (r.a.) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur’an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (r.a.) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Usman (r.a.) to the main centres of Muslims.
There were other personal collections of the portions of the Qur’an that people had with them. These might have been incomplete and with mistakes. Usman (r.a.) only appealed to the people to destroy all these copies which did not match the original manuscript of the Qur’an in order to preserve the original text of the Qur’an. Two such copies of the copied text of the original Qur’an authenticated by the Prophet are present to this day, one at the museum in Tashkent in erstwhile Soviet Union and the other at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey.
5. Diacritical marks were added for non-Arabs
The original manuscript of the Qur’an does not have the signs indicating the vowels in Arabic script. These vowels are known as tashkil, zabar, zair, paish in Urdu and as fatah, damma and qasra in Arabic. The Arabs did not require the vowel signs and diacritical marks for correct pronunciation of the Qur’an since it was their mother tongue. For Muslims of non-Arab origin, however, it was difficult to recite the Qur’an correctly without the vowels. These marks were introduced into the Quranic script during the time of the fifth ‘Umayyad’ Caliph, Malik-ar-Marwan (66-86 Hijri/685-705 C.E.) and during the governorship of Al-Hajaj in Iraq.
Some people argue that the present copy of the Qur’an that we have along with the vowels and the diacritical marks is not the same original Qur’an that was present at the Prophet’s time. But they fail to realize that the word ‘Qur’an’ means a recitation. Therefore, the preservation of the recitation of the Qur’an is important, irrespective of whether the script is different or whether it contains vowels. If the pronunciation and the Arabic is the same, naturally, the meaning remains the same too.
6. Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur’an
Allah has promised in the Qur’an :
"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption)."
[Al-Qur’an 15:9]
Article Source:http://towardsislam.pynex.com/content.php?article.23
I'm just saying, women are not treated equally in Islam, and I'm sorry that's just the truth. How come a man can marry four wives but a woman can't do the same? He doesn't even have to inform or ask his wife to marry another woman, and marriage contracts (which Islam really did have a hand in popularizing) forbids the idea of preventing your husband from marrying another woman. Plus, did you know that if you refuse sex with your husband (if it's not life threatening or you're not menstruating or something) then the angels basically curse you? That's rape and Islam allows it. Rape is non-consensual sex.
A woman marrying more than one husband is a bit problematic. Who's the father of her baby if she has four husbands? And Islam ENCOURAGES men to marry one... And if he marries more he must treat them all the same which is incredibly difficult. The permissibility of polygamy goes back to the time when Prophet Muhammad and his companions lived in an age of war vs the Meccans that saw many men die and many families needing to be taken care if. What nikkas do now is be thirsty and have wives all over the place which isn't the purpose of polygamy... And they aren't treating the wives the same.
And the sex thing is simple. The husband can't force his wife to have sex. That is RAPE and a man has no right to do that. However husbands and wives have duties for each other and sex is one of them. If she's sick, on menses, fasting, doing hajj, or cannot bear it.. It's not a curse or sin.
The Hadith refers to a husband who is angry if his wife rejects him too. But if your wife ain't feeling it, why stress it?
Muslims in the Muslim world are more simple minded with this, unfortunately.
Elle Driver
Veteran
Y'all always make that same point lol "who's the father of the baby if she four kids?" That wasn't the point I was making, I was just pointing out the inequality and the fact that a man can freely marry up to four wives. It doesn't really matter to me whether or not he can bear the burden of it all, I was merely pointing out that he can do it but the opposite is true for women. She's expected to grin and bear it, her husband can go and marry another three wives behind her back and she can't say shyt. Are you telling me that's fair? Her feelings aren't even being acknowledged. The fact that a lot of men were slaughtered during wars and that's why it was permissible to marry up to four wives doesn't really disprove it my point because to this day, in 2013, they're still allowed to do that. Whether or not those men are thirsty is out of the question, it's the fact that a religion that claims equality between men and women, clearly doesn't display it.
I may have worded it wrong, thanks for the correction, anyway basically a man gets angry at his wife for not giving up the puss and then angels take his crusty ass side? I mean doesn't your religion claim angels don't have free will? Why would an angel take the side of the man, unless you're saying God commanded the angel to take the side of the man and curse the woman?
Are you Muslim?
I'm not saying in America women are treated fairly, I mean come on, there's some statistic out there that 1 in 4 women or something are raped in their life time in America. Rape culture, victim blaming, slut shaming etc. is really prevalent here. You've got crazy pro-life people out there that believe that they somehow have a say in what women do with their reproductive organs and their bodies. Let's not even get started with the wage gap.
I'm just saying, women are not treated equally in Islam, and I'm sorry that's just the truth. How come a man can marry four wives but a woman can't do the same? He doesn't even have to inform or ask his wife to marry another woman, and marriage contracts (which Islam really did have a hand in popularizing) forbids the idea of preventing your husband from marrying another woman. Plus, did you know that if you refuse sex with your husband (if it's not life threatening or you're not menstruating or something) then the angels basically curse you? That's rape and Islam allows it. Rape is non-consensual sex.
and so we agree about America.
About Islam - the more than one wife thing didn't start with Islam.... but it was made more fair by Islam. In Islam, people originally hated Muslims for talking that 1 true God talk, saying women should inherit property and other women rights things (because Muhammad himself dated powerful women).. and Muslims were attacked ran out of mecca and killed. So in general women didn't have shyt, so the men that didn't get killed - took on more wives to support the children. Some men were damn near force (I'm sure it wasn't a hard fight tho) to take on more than one. Islam gave it rules- Women and man don't take on more than 1 if there is no need. There has never been a need for women, plus woman can only be preg by 1 man at a time, while a man can get 7k women preg if he wanted to- Biologically speaking the nature of women and men are different. Also, in Islam a man has to fully support his wife. For example - my ex - she didn't work she spent her time going to zumba class, trips outta state, and art classes n random shyt. I paid for her a Master degree and took care of her every need because that's the rule if u chose that person. To answer ur question - yes, I'm Muslim. Gave her the brand new car when we split and will for the rest of our lives make sure her standard of living is equal to mine - regardless of how many dikks she sucks from this point on - cuz she had my son as well. The reality is - Man and women will never be equal on this planet, and our biology, testosterone levels, brains, and other chemicals will always ensure that the sexism is easy to enforce. But other than all that stuff - A muslim has duties towards women. Thats why I don't wife anyone now and just smash random smuts all the time --- cuz A muslim man must - Take care of all her needs. Break her off his money. Ensure sexual satisfaction at all times. Make her happy at all times. simp on the bish.
I really don't know too much about the rape n all that.. thats that mid east southern asia shyt. Look at non Muslim India. What I do know if that Islam allows you to still blend well with your own culture and The main things in Islam are living Piously and doing what's right. No one in Islam regardless of background is ignorant of whats right. The very worse thing in Islam isn't jews or athiest or anyone else--- ITS Muslim Hypocrites. There's an entire section on that and they go hard at that for a reason. So all of the fukkkery will be addressed eventually.
Sunalmighty
Superstar
When you say successor, please elaborate in what capacity. Muhammmed is supposed to be the "Seal of the Prophets" right?
Y'all always make that same point lol "who's the father of the baby if she four kids?" That wasn't the point I was making, I was just pointing out the inequality and the fact that a man can freely marry up to four wives. It doesn't really matter to me whether or not he can bear the burden of it all, I was merely pointing out that he can do it but the opposite is true for women. She's expected to grin and bear it, her husband can go and marry another three wives behind her back and she can't say shyt. Are you telling me that's fair? Her feelings aren't even being acknowledged. The fact that a lot of men were slaughtered during wars and that's why it was permissible to marry up to four wives doesn't really disprove it my point because to this day, in 2013, they're still allowed to do that. Whether or not those men are thirsty is out of the question, it's the fact that a religion that claims equality between men and women, clearly doesn't display it.
I may have worded it wrong, thanks for the correction, anyway basically a man gets angry at his wife for not giving up the puss and then angels take his crusty ass side? I mean doesn't your religion claim angels don't have free will? Why would an angel take the side of the man, unless you're saying God commanded the angel to take the side of the man and curse the woman?
.
Why would a woman want to do polygamy? Its not just about sex. Its about the burden of responsibility. Last I checked there are more women than men in this world. More women and children are left behind in places all over the world where men are fighting each other. The Qur'an mentions plenty that the men are protectors of women. Polygamy is one of those measures use to do it but its a very strict measure that shouldn't be taken lightly. But the biological reason is real.According to scholars, the Shari`ah does not require the husband to get the consent of the first wife for a second marriage. If the conditions for a second marriage are right according to the Shari`ah, he can legally go ahead and marry. But we need to understand the spirit of the Islamic ruling first.
For instance, if the second marriage is likely to upset the first marriage and the family structure already established, then a second marriage should be avoided, as it undermines the very purpose of the Islamic rules of marriage. But the permission of plural marriage is given in the context of protecting widows, as they need to be taken care of. In the very same verse it is stated clearly that if a man cannot treat his wives with equity, he should not marry more than one woman. This is a clause usually ignored or taken lightly by many men, depriving women the rights Allah Almighty has granted.
It is also worth mentioning that the bride has the right before marriage to demand her fiance to agree in advance to certain conditions of hers, in case he is interested in pursuing another marriage later on. Actually, this can be part of the marriage contract. As it is the duty of Muslims to fulfill all obligations, the Muslim husband cannot but honor such a condition.
Every soul is equal. Men and women are just different with rights over each other with the men being the protectors and maintainers of women. A man is expected to provide while a woman can provide but she is under no obligation to give her wealth to her husband, what she earns is HERS... her property is HERs... and whatever she gives to her family counts as charity. I encourage you to read: http://turntoislam.com/community/threads/the-status-of-women-in-islam.2351/
Polygamy is only done in special circumstances. It's not done just for the fukk of it and Islam is the one religion where parameters are STRICT on this matter. This strictness is reserved for the men who are not to use polygamy as an end to satisfy desire after desire. Polygamy was allowed usually because lots of men would die in battle. There would be lots of women available and they needed to get married due to unbalanced gender ratios. So the man would marry an extra one or two. Normally no one wants to be in a polygamous marriage and it certainly doesn't make you a better Muslim if you are in one. Even most men don't want more than one wife. In fact, Islam actually strongly recommends that the husband just marry one wife because polygamous marriages are usually not equal. You must treat all the wives the same. You can't have favorites.
.... then marry from among [other] women such as are lawful to you - [even] two, or three, or four: but if you have reason to fear that you might not be able to treat them with equal fairness, then [only] one. (Qur'an 4:3)
However, the Qur’an does refer to this point.
“You are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire” (Qur'an 4:129).
Polygamous marriages are a thing of the past or something that is done back home. You'll find Somali men who do it because they live half of the year in Africa and the other half in the West and they'll take an extra wife. But you'll rarely see someone in the West with more than one wife. It is unnecessary and places a big burden on a man's shoulders.
BTW, what's the big fuss over polygamy? nikkas on this very site talk about messing with other women while they are married.or committed like its nothing. Polygamy shackles those who want to sow their seeds endlessly with responsibility, thus giving men an incentive to limit and control themselves.
Without such constraints, you can have dozens of liasons and father dozens from several babies mama's.
Islam sets the limits very tightly and you can clearly see that monogamy is the ideal. The neo-Shaykhs of today do not represent Islam with their polygamous marriages where they marry four and then progessively divorce these women to suit their twisted desires.
As for the sex refusal thing:
Allah Most High says:
"On no soul does Allah place a burden greater than it can bear" (Qur'an 2:286)
Many times it is observed that the husband demands from his wife to fulfill his sexual needs no matter what state she is in, and uses the above quoted Hadiths that you refereed to, to impose himself over her. But the hadiths refer more to a woman who refuses her husband out of spite, anger, and insulting
If the wife is not in a state to engage in sexual activities and has a genuine and valid reason, and the husband forces her, then he will be sinful. Muslim husbands should realize that their wives are also humans and not some type of machines that can be switched on whenever they desire!
Finally, these matters should be resolved with mutual understanding, regard for one another, love, gentleness and putting one's spouse before one's self.
The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) has reported to have said:
None of you can be a true believer until they love for their brother (or sister) what they love for themselves.
The importance of this is even greater in a marital relationship. If a man is being an animal and unreasonable, the woman can also file for divorce for her safety.