Where most origin comic movies fail and Batman Begins and TDK shines.

Ed MOTHEREFFING G

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Why would you say those 2
everyone except maybe the youngest of children know their origins, and even then spiderman's origin is regularly retold through cartoon series.

we're already vested in those 2, which is the purpose of an origin...they give you a reason to care about the hero's heroics. We're well past that with spiderman and batman. Their origins should maybe be a FLASHBACK or a quarter of an act at most.

I actually appreciated superman returns for that reason; they did his origin like a sports montage like "hey remember how superman got here? great. now lets move on"
 

I AM WARHOL

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I agree to a point. Some origin stories are tied to there most iconic villian.

Like for the fantastic 4 is it possible to have an origin story that doesn't involve them fight Doom? I don't think so
 

MartyMcFly

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I agree to a point. Some origin stories are tied to there most iconic villian.

Like for the fantastic 4 is it possible to have an origin story that doesn't involve them fight Doom? I don't think so

I think that's the beauty of spider man or batman is that their origins aren't tied to any specific villain.
 
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everyone except maybe the youngest of children know their origins, and even then spiderman's origin is regularly retold through cartoon series.

we're already vested in those 2, which is the purpose of an origin...they give you a reason to care about the hero's heroics. We're well past that with spiderman and batman. Their origins should maybe be a FLASHBACK or a quarter of an act at most.

I actually appreciated superman returns for that reason; they did his origin like a sports montage like "hey remember how superman got here? great. now lets move on"

nah i'm okay with a spidey origin story because i think it's important to show the audience what peter was like before he was bit by the spider and how becoming spiderman changes him as a person.

batman went through much more anguish and agony on his quest to becoming batman. it tears him down as a character and shows us a side of him we don't want - or need - to see. seeing bruce wayne mope around for an hour? zzzzzz....zzzzzzz

just start the story at batman, it's the best way. we see he carries anguish in his heart, we see he's angry. that's all we need. "oh his parents were killed as a boy... makes sense". but there's just nothing mystifying about the character when they show you every insignificant detail... like how he ordered his bat-masks in bulk from some offshore corporation.

same with superman. i prefer to start the story where is already superman. i wanna see what the world of tomorrow is really like. communicate the origin some other way without spending 1/3 of the movie on it.
 

The_Sheff

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I agree to a point. Some origin stories are tied to there most iconic villian.

Like for the fantastic 4 is it possible to have an origin story that doesn't involve them fight Doom? I don't think so

Why do they have to fight and defeat Doom? Have him do something in the background, show him as a side character who slowly goes from just a rival to Reed Richards intellectually to this megalomaniac who gets his armor at the very end of the film. Dont cram someone of that character into 20 minutes of film time max.
 

Khalil's_Black_Excellence

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Most comic origin films make the huge mistake of placing the most iconic villain in the film and defeating him. Its hard enough to give enough time to the title character's origin in the first film but when you also need to tell the origin story of their greatest villain along with build the setting something is going to get shortchanged. It makes the movie seem rushed and the villain doesn't get enough time to shine.

The first Spiderman villain shouldnt have been the Green Goblin (An argument can be had on who Spiderman's top nemesis is but Green Goblin is definitely up there). Captain America shouldn't have actually defeated the Red Skull in his first film and the Fantastic 4 damn sure should not be defeating Dr. Doom in the first movie.

This is what Batman got right, they let the first film be a complete origin story and had him face decent villains in Ra's Al Ghoul and Scarecrow. Then in the second film after the universe has been set up and Batman's story has been told they could devote a large amount of time building up the Joker and doing him justice. They wouldnt be able to do that if he was crammed into the first movie. Iron Man did the right thing in having him face Iron Monger (but then fukked the up later flicks). Spiderman got away with it a bit because he has so many good villains that they still had a Dr Octopus waiting in the wings after Green Goblin was gone but they still shouldn't have wasted Goblin like that.

Lastly thats how i know this new Fantastic 4 is gonna be trash. 90 minutes for an origin film with Dr. Doom as the main villain, yeah thats gonna be bad.

It's not even so much as defeating them (I can deal with them actually beating their nemesis by the end of the film) as it is killing them (the villain) usually that's the real big mistake. All too often in comic book movies does the villain actually get killed at the end. Only a few instances I can think where that didn't happen.

X-men with Magneto
Thor/Avengers with Loki
Spiderman 3 with Sandman (tho both Harry and Venom die, lol)
Amazing Spiderman 2 with Green Goblin (tho Electro dies...probably cuz he was black)

You'd think with these movies being PG-13 that they wouldn't be so hard pressed to actually kill the villain anyway. Saturday morning cartoons always just had the villains get incarcerated or ultimately escape or something. Killing the villain also makes it so that they can't have return appearances, which is a missed opportunity really.
 

TheGodling

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I agree to a point. Some origin stories are tied to there most iconic villian.

Like for the fantastic 4 is it possible to have an origin story that doesn't involve them fight Doom? I don't think so

Ehm, the FF's origin has very little to do with Doom. They had history with Doom in college but went separate ways and only clashed later when Doom started his world conquering schemes and they had become superheroes. It's the movies that insist on tying him directly into the origin of the FF.

They could easily save Doom for a sequel and use flashbacks to explain the history between them, it's not that hard.
 

Khalil's_Black_Excellence

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Ehm, the FF's origin has very little to do with Doom. They had history with Doom in college but went separate ways and only clashed later when Doom started his world conquering schemes and they had become superheroes. It's the movies that insist on tying him directly into the origin of the FF.

They could easily save Doom for a sequel and use flashbacks to explain the history between them, it's not that hard.

Who the hell does FF actually fight that isn't Doom tho? Serious question, as I was never a fan of them.
 

Khalil's_Black_Excellence

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source material ignorance :blessed:

doom
Super Skrull
Galactus
Ronan
Namor at times

are their biggest foes...with the top 3 being their biggest recurring
The skrulls, puppet master, galactus, Mole Man, super skrull..thats just off the top of my head tho

Oh ok. Yeah, I knew about Galactus from the last film (plus he's a big bad for half of marvel anyway, lol). And yeah, I know about Namor possibly getting into Sue Storms guts and hating Reed Richard's bum ass from other cross-over stories, lol.
 

MartyMcFly

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Oh ok. Yeah, I knew about Galactus from the last film (plus he's a big bad for half of marvel anyway, lol). And yeah, I know about Namor possibly getting into Sue Storms guts and hating Reed Richard's bum ass from other cross-over stories, lol.

Much like Doom, Galactus started out purely as their villain but world domination tends to unite everyone. They laid the building blocks for most of the marvel universe in terms of comic books. Secret Wars, in its current run, isn't happening without FF
 
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