When The Smoke Clears Will LeBron Join 3-6 Mafia? Cavs vs Warriors IV In The NBA Finals

[duncanthetall]

Read the post I originally quoted. Subsequent posts will start making sense.

I read it, friend, but they're still not pushing the needle. And don't you feel that both of them on defense would have been worse than that garbage juice the Cavs already had out there? Experience can only take you so far. Maybe you're just more optimistic about their chances there than I was. Sorry for coming at you reckless, btw. I'm not saying I like the trades that they made, especially going back to the initial Kyrie trade, but I don't think I'm gonna blame Bron on that one. The actual GM he wanted wasn't retained in the first place.

 

[panopticon]

I read it, friend, but they're still not pushing the needle. And don't you feel that both of them on defense would have been worse than that garbage juice the Cavs already had out there? Experience can only take you so far. Maybe you're just more optimistic about their chances there than I was. Sorry for coming at you reckless, btw. I'm not saying I like the trades that they made, especially going back to the initial Kyrie trade, but I don't think I'm gonna blame Bron on that one. The actual GM he wanted wasn't retained in the first place.

I hear you on IT / D Wade not moving the needle. IT had to get bushed because of all the drama he was stirring up. That much was obvious.

I do think moving D Wade was a mistake - not for the regular season, but for crunch time in the playoffs. He's still capable of giving you 1 good game out of 3 or 4 (remember, he came to the Cavs out of shape and played his way back into shape after being traded to Miami ), and you know he won't shrink in big moments or have "mental lapses" like JR Smith

I might be in the minority here with this view - but I definitely think there was a way for the newly constructed post-trade deadline Cavs to work - and at least take the Warriors to 7, if not outright win the championship. IMO, the Warriors weren't unbeatable this year.

But it would have required a completely different approach and attitude by the Cavs to regular season play (especially on defense), and would've also required Lebron to play in a way he's never really tried before on offense.

I have a long post somewhere on it - but the root of the argument is that because Lebron is so damn good at everything (he's still the best player on the planet by far) the way to approach offense when you've got him on your roster is to first identify the strengths of whoever else you've got. Scrubs, decent role players, stars, whatever. Figure out what they're good at - what they can do consistently and at a high level. Then build the offense around ensuring that they're able to contribute to the maximum extent possible given their strengths. Finally, use Lebron to fill whatever holes remain - and liberate him in the last couple of minutes of the game (if its close) to do wild ass Lebron shyt to take you home. To me, that's the real value of a superstar player - he doesn't have to be set up by anyone else, he doesn't need a certain number of touches to get into rhythm, build his confidence, etc. It's just plug and play - and the value of that ability is highest at the end of games.

BTW, the inspiration for this is Bill Belichick - this is exactly how he builds the Patriots offense every year. He fires scouts and coordinators who tell him what players can't do - he's only interested in what they can do. He knows he has the GOAT QB that can make all sorts of magical shyt happen on the field, so his focus is on figuring out how to maximize the abilities of the rest of the offensive roster - Brady can get them the ball anywhere, anytime.

Just my opinion tho

 

[duncanthetall]

I hear you on IT / D Wade not moving the needle. IT had to get bushed because of all the drama he was stirring up. That much was obvious.

I do think moving D Wade was a mistake - not for the regular season, but for crunch time in the playoffs. He's still capable of giving you 1 good game out of 3 or 4 (remember, he came to the Cavs out of shape and played his way back into shape after being traded to Miami ), and you know he won't shrink in big moments or have "mental lapses" like JR Smith

I might be in the minority here with this view - but I definitely think there was a way for the newly constructed post-trade deadline Cavs to work - and at least take the Warriors to 7, if not outright win the championship. IMO, the Warriors weren't unbeatable this year.

But it would have required a completely different approach and attitude by the Cavs to regular season play (especially on defense), and would've also required Lebron to play in a way he's never really tried before.

I have a long post somewhere on it - but the root of the argument is that because Lebron is so damn good at everything (he's still the best player on the planet by far) the way to approach offense when you've got him on your roster is to first identify the strengths of whoever else you've got. Scrubs, decent role players, stars, whatever. Figure out what they're good at - what they can do consistently and at a high level. Then build the offense around ensuring that they're able to contribute to the maximum extent possible given their strengths. Finally, use Lebron to fill whatever holes remain - and liberate him in the last couple of minutes of the game (if its close) to do wild ass Lebron shyt to take you home. To me, that's the real value of a superstar player - he doesn't have to be set up by anyone else, he doesn't need a certain number of touches to get into rhythm, build his confidence, etc. It's just plug and play - and the value of that ability is highest at the end of games.

Just my opinion tho

Fair enough. I value ya opinion fam, you obviously know what you're talking about. For me, we're asking a lot out of a coaching staff that won't even call time out when they desperately need to in the Finals, however. I've applauded some of Lue's moves in the past, but he is simply outmatched more often than not when it comes to making adjustments at the half and just...I mean just overall as a coach lmao.

I think the best thing for Bron at this point is to go somewhere where there is a system in place and a coach that has enough respect from him that he'll fall in line because he knows that man knows best. Obviously I'm thinking the Spurs, but yeah Bron isn't completely out of blame for this and if we threw an ounce of mamba mentality into this nikka maybe they would have snuck a game. He knows he's overmatched he said it to the media, then why not say fukk it and throw it up 50 times. I dunno.

There was never going to be a real offense being run in Cleveland, though. The random iso ball that worked well because it was Bron and Kyrie aint gonna work with Bron and Clarkson. Dude needs to be more flexible with his role in the future if he's going to win another chip.

 

[panopticon]

Fair enough. I value ya opinion fam, you obviously know what you're talking about. For me, we're asking a lot out of a coaching staff that won't even call time out when they desperately need to in the Finals, however. I've applauded some of Lue's moves in the past, but he is simply outmatched more often than not when it comes to making adjustments at the half and just...I mean just overall as a coach lmao.

I think the best thing for Bron at this point is to go somewhere where there is a system in place and a coach that has enough respect from him that he'll fall in line because he knows that man knows best. Obviously I'm thinking the Spurs, but yeah Bron isn't completely out of blame for this and if we threw an ounce of mamba mentality into this nikka maybe they would have snuck a game. He knows he's overmatched he said it to the media, then why not say fukk it and throw it up 50 times. I dunno.

There was never going to be a real offense being run in Cleveland, though. The random iso ball that worked well because it was Bron and Kyrie aint gonna work with Bron and Clarkson. Dude needs to be more flexible with his role in the future if he's going to win another chip.

Honestly, yeah, Bron getting an ounce of Mamba Mentality would've snuck them a game...but what really bothers me is that I genuinely believe the Cavs could have won this series.

There's all the offensive stuff I mentioned in my previous post that addresses the (as you put it) "random iso ball" offensive "system" of the Cavs - but had the Cavs just decided to play defense - REALLY play defense in the regular season (like the Rockets), the series would've been at worst 2-2 at this point.

The Cavs (ex-Lebron, mostly as a result of the offense the Cavs play) expended maximum effort on defense in the Finals. They really were trying. Even Kevin Love

Their defense wasn't ineffective because of a lack of effort - it was ineffective because they hadn't developed good defensive habits as a team in the period between the big trade and the start of the playoffs. All the effort in the world won't make a difference if your timing is off on switches, or if you're confused about who you're supposed to rotate to. Things move so quickly in the Finals that those things have to become muscle memory - you don't have time to think about what you're supposed to do next.

The only way for behaviors to become muscle memory is to practice them, relentlessly, over a long period of time. This is what the Rockets did, and why they were able to take the Warriors to 7 - yes, they're blessed with greater offensive talent among role players than the Cavs are, but the real difference was just how effective their defense was. They played excellent defense all regular season (well, everyone but James Harden ), and it really paid off. I'm convinced they'd have beat the Warriors had Chris Paul stayed healthy.

Back to your point about Bron going to a team with a proper offensive system in place, and a coach that isn't afraid to force him to abide by it...I think that would be fukking amazing.

Bron on the Spurs ...If anyone can unlock Bron's talent its Pop. He'd have no choice but to trust him given his record of success.

On top of that, Pop would know exactly how to use Bron to both manage his minutes/usage (thereby extending his career) while maximizing his chances at more rings.

I'd love to see Bron crush the Warriors in the WCF and go on to win 3 or 4 more championships with Pop.

Shyt would be so legendary...even Skip Bayless would have no choice but to crown Bron the GOAT.

 

[panopticon]

Fair enough. I value ya opinion fam, you obviously know what you're talking about. For me, we're asking a lot out of a coaching staff that won't even call time out when they desperately need to in the Finals, however. I've applauded some of Lue's moves in the past, but he is simply outmatched more often than not when it comes to making adjustments at the half and just...I mean just overall as a coach lmao.

I think the best thing for Bron at this point is to go somewhere where there is a system in place and a coach that has enough respect from him that he'll fall in line because he knows that man knows best. Obviously I'm thinking the Spurs, but yeah Bron isn't completely out of blame for this and if we threw an ounce of mamba mentality into this nikka maybe they would have snuck a game. He knows he's overmatched he said it to the media, then why not say fukk it and throw it up 50 times. I dunno.

There was never going to be a real offense being run in Cleveland, though. The random iso ball that worked well because it was Bron and Kyrie aint gonna work with Bron and Clarkson. Dude needs to be more flexible with his role in the future if he's going to win another chip.

Forgot to address this. Lue, and Cavs coaching as a whole...
I still can't believe he kept Hood benched for so long in both the Boston and Warriors series when JR was clearly just bulljiving on the court much of the time

One thing that Lebron creates with every other member of an organization is a massive power imbalance. Whether its the coach, GM, owner, doesn't matter. It's just a fact of life when you're the best player on the planet.

Because of that power imbalance, I sometimes wonder if Lue's coaching decisions are made not from the perspective of what the best move basketball-wise is at any given moment, but rather what he (thinks) will make Lebron happy. Sort of like how nobles at a king's court will try and anticipate his whims...rather than just execute on whatever they've been told to do.

Otherwise, the only other explanation is that Lue is just slow, feeble-minded, and unqualified to be an NBA head coach...and I don't want to think that about another black man, especially a black man with such a prominent position in professional sports.

 

[duncanthetall]

Honestly, yeah, Bron getting an ounce of Mamba Mentality would've snuck them a game...but what really bothers me is that I genuinely believe the Cavs could have won this series.

There's all the offensive stuff I mentioned in my previous post that addresses the (as you put it) "random iso ball" offensive "system" of the Cavs - but had the Cavs just decided to play defense - REALLY play defense in the regular season (like the Rockets), the series would've been at worst 2-2 at this point.

The Cavs (ex-Lebron, mostly as a result of the offense the Cavs play) expended maximum effort on defense in the Finals. They really were trying. Even Kevin Love

Their defense wasn't ineffective because of a lack of effort - it was ineffective because they hadn't developed good defensive habits as a team in the period between the big trade and the start of the playoffs. All the effort in the world won't make a difference if your timing is off on switches, or if you're confused about who you're supposed to rotate to. Things move so quickly in the Finals that those things have to become muscle memory - you don't have time to think about what you're supposed to do next.

The only way for behaviors to become muscle memory is to practice them, relentlessly, over a long period of time. This is what the Rockets did, and why they were able to take the Warriors to 7 - yes, they're blessed with greater offensive talent among role players than the Cavs are, but the real difference was just how effective their defense was. They played excellent defense all regular season (well, everyone but James Harden ), and it really paid off. I'm convinced they'd have beat the Warriors had Chris Paul stayed healthy.

Back to your point about Bron going to a team with a proper offensive system in place, and a coach that isn't afraid to force him to abide by it...I think that would be fukking amazing.

Bron on the Spurs ...If anyone can unlock Bron's talent its Pop. He'd have no choice but to trust him given his record of success.

On top of that, Pop would know exactly how to use Bron to both manage his minutes/usage (thereby extending his career) while maximizing his chances at more rings.

I'd love to see Bron crush the Warriors in the WCF and go on to win 3 or 4 more championships with Pop.

Shyt would be so legendary...even Skip Bayless would have no choice but to crown Bron the GOAT.

I'm a little drunk so I'm not gonna try to break down all of what you said. But I agree 100% and I wanna talk about 3 things real quick breh.

1. Do the Cavs really not practice?

2. You truly think CP3 would have helped lead them to a win over the Dubs in game 7? Breh...CP3 is one of my favorite players to watch but even I think he would have choked.

3. What do you think the Spurs team make up would be like if Bron was to go there? Gotta rid of that Pau contract..so who we getting rid of? What somewhat talented veteran can we get to come there for a discount for a chance to get a ring?

4. (I'm a liar) Do you think Kawhi could co-exhist with Bron?

 

[Brief Keef]

soon

 

[Assata Shakur]

​

 

[GunRanger]

Other than Iggy getting it, they've never been wrong with their choice. Ever.

Pierce didnt deserve it over ray

Parker over Duncan

 

[Rigby.]

soon

Man fukk it why not at this point? I know SAS trollin like a bytch and Bron has no interest going there, but he gonna give these hating nikkas all they askin for. If rings all that matter, go chase rings b. shyts completely disgusting but the rationale of the average NBA watcher is even worse

 

[Rigby.]

At what point is kobey altman held accountable if bron leaves

That trade which sent isaiah ..wade and rose has to be put in the light

Maybe they dont win but those guys would have made it more of a competition

Wade n rose can still get buckets when they need and IT should have been in alot better form by that stage ??

they wouldve kept 3 washed up players to potentially have a shot at GSW (wouldnt have done nothing) and Im pretty sure all 3 couldve left this season. Instead of that, they now have a handful of young pieces that they could choose to complement whoever their next star is.

 

[LezJepzin]

 

[ezrathegreat]

This shyt is gonna be my screen saver!

 

[Young Fab]

nikkas talkin bout CLE coulda snuck a game if Bron had"Mamba Mentality".

I guess 19-32, 3-6 from 3 and 7-8 from the FT line = 49 points ain't Mamba Mentality.

Da nikka did his part in sneakin a game and the refs/his teammates shat all over it which ultimately led to them gettin swept cause da nikka broke his hand he was so mad.

Just don't get da way summa you nikkas think.

 

[VegetasHairline]