What Went Wrong With AJ Soprano?

Soymuscle Mike

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I like what this guy wrote about AJ, who I liked as a character and believed. On a rewatch you can see from jump how detached he is from shyt, from his dad getting shot to people around him dying to events happening around him - he feels shyt but he has no idea what to do with it. He's a bit like his grandma.

I think Toný's reaction to seeing his son drown and then cradling him is one of the most powerful scenes in the show.


The Second Coming (6.19)

This guy breaks down every episode (he has two left that aren't finished), but in the suicide-attempt episode he basically only talks about AJ:

It’s been a while since I’ve watched this hour, and I was very much looking forward to revisiting it. What excited me the most was the thought that maybe I would be able to see AJ more sympathetically now. During previous re-watches, this episode always put me in a predicament: I wanted to feel a greater sympathy for AJ, but the scenes that led up to his suicide attempt as well as the scenes that followed it only served to remind me what a little shyt he can be. I thought this time it would be different. I’m older now, more understanding, less prone to be judgmental of others. But when I re-watched the episode prior to starting this write-up, I realized the truth once again: AJ can be a pretty crappy person.

David Chase is much more sympathetic toward AJ. In an interview with Alan Sepinwall and Matt Zoller Seitz, Chase wondered why so many viewers disliked AJ. He felt that he himself can personally relate to the young man: “…in the case of AJ, I think I see myself as a teenager, as kind of a bumbling person. The king of most literary teenagers is Holden Caulfield, and I see a little of him in AJ.”

I think I could have been more sympathetic to AJ if he was simply going into a tailspin after losing his first love. Many of us would be able to relate, we’ve suffered that particular crisis. But that doesn’t seem to be what’s going on with him. Sure, his depression and frustration may be rooted in his romantic disappointment with Blanca, but he seems to be using that disappointment now to justify being entitled and belligerent and emotionally indulgent (even more than he usually is). Meadow tries to engage him here like a good big-sister should. She enters his bedroom and goes to turn down the music so they can have a thoughtful discussion. But he snaps at her not to touch the sound system. (The song that’s playing is “Into the Ocean” by Blue October, a track about a depressed guy who wants to drown himself.) When Meadow asks if his behavior and depression are because of Blanca, AJ can only reply, “I don’t know anymore.” He is not able to clarify the problem, even in his own mind.

As I re-watched this episode, I found myself thinking about the 3 films that James Dean made during his short life. In each of these three films, the character that Dean plays has thoughts and feelings that are hidden or that get stifled inside of him for one reason or another. But in the third act of each film, the character’s passion and insight spills out in a compelling, poetic overflow. James Dean knew how to modulate his characters’ emotions over the course of a film, reining them in or letting them loose as the script required, and the viewer could share in the emotional journey. Dean worked hard to learn how to tap into his emotions and be more expressive: he studied the Method, took voice lessons, dance lessons…

Robert Iler is a different type of actor. He doesn’t seem to have Dean’s expressive or technical abilities. But this, if anything, makes Iler even more suited to play the thankless role of “AJ Soprano.” It seems to me that David Chase shaped the role—and guided the actor—in a particular way in order to study a specific type of character: The Passive Nihilist.

I know that I’ve touched upon Kevin Stoehr’s theory of the Passive and Active Nihilist multiple times already, but I think Stoehr’s theory is particularly illuminating for this episode. Stoehr gives the following description of the paired opposites:

the Passive nihilist “flounders in his moral ambiguities and eventually refuses to rise above the negativity in his own life”
  • the Active nihilist “gains clarity of purpose as he comes to view the presence of ambiguity or negativity as a creative challenge that may result in acts of self-overcoming”
Although AJ clearly fits the former description, he is trying now to fit into the latter; he tries to be more informed about global issues, be more conscious of the many injustices in the world, as his sister is. But he is unpracticed at this role, and his complaints about the state of the world end up sounding feeble and whiny. AJ doesn’t have the “clarity of purpose” that Stoehr requires the active nihilist to have. In fact, AJ doesn’t have very much clarity about anything. AJ’s psychiatrist suggests that he write down his thoughts because “it might help clarify your feelings.” Of course, we know that AJ is not going to make the effort to do so (just like his father never made the effort to keep a log of his thoughts and feelings as Melfi had asked him to do in Season 3). I think the reason AJ turns to W.B. Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming” with such keen interest now is because it seems to articulate ideas that he can’t express or clarify himself.

THE SECOND COMING
William Butler Yeats published “The Second Coming” in 1919, during the worst pandemic of the 20th century and not long after the end of World War I. The brutal war brought devastation to the globe on a scale that was previously unimaginable, and the ensuing years were a time of pessimism and suspicion. Even after the fighting had ended, the world remained fractured along ideological and factional lines. This dark postwar temper contributed to the apocalyptic tone of Yeats’ poem. There was a sense that the chaos and destruction that was unleashed upon the world by both the virus and the World War was still lurking around some near corner. Havoc could soon have its way again.

Perhaps we can still relate in contemporary times to that feeling. An August 2016 Wall Street Journal article, “Terror, Brexit and U.S. Election Have Made 2016 the Year of Yeats,” noted that lines and phrases from “The Second Coming” had been quoted, mentioned and referenced more times in the first seven months of 2016 than during any period in the last 30 years (according to the research tool ‘Factiva’). The WSJ article hypothesized that the nomination of Donald Trump as the Republican candidate as well as the United Kingdom’s move toward leaving the E.U. (and, of course, the factors that led to these two events) reflected a worldwide pessimism. The world is still split along factional and ideological lines, and fear and xenophobia have gripped many societies around the planet. A month before writing this paragraph, I read that the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists (BAS) recently moved the hands of the so-called “Doomsday Clock” 20 seconds closer to midnight. Standing merely 100 seconds from metaphorical midnight, the clock now stands closer to Armageddon than it ever has in its 73-year history. As for the reasons behind their grim decision, BAS cites the unchecked Iranian and North Korean weapons programs, the undermining of democracy around the world, tensions between global superpowers, the rise of disruptive technologies, deteriorating environmental conditions and climate change. On top of that, we are right now contending with the deadly COVID-19 coronavirus disease along with the chaotic social and economic disruptions the pandemic is bringing. Yeats’ poem, published almost exactly 100 years ago, was filled with ominous imagery that reflected the global mood of the time. Yeats could not have guessed that his poem might be even more representative of the international mood today:

The Second Coming
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Chase gets a lot of mileage out of Yeats’ poem, he uses it to accomplish several different things here in this second part of Season 6:

  1. It gives form to AJ’s shapeless thoughts
  2. It posits AJ as a sort of “second coming” of Tony Soprano
  3. It gives voice to an idea that has been implicit throughout the series, the idea that Tony is a kind of unholy “rough beast”
  4. Its doomsday imagery intensifies the sense of impending apocalypse that colors the endgame of The Sopranos
When we heard Nick Lowe’s “The Beast in Me” close out the Pilot, 83 episodes ago, we understood that the protagonist of this TV series was going to be a more beastly character than probably any central character we’ve ever encountered on American television. I believe that David Chase has always postulated Tony Soprano to be a uniquely American beast, a creature formed of our consumeristic excess coupled with our ruthlessly capitalist values. These troubling aspects of our culture are alluded to with the opening shot of the episode....

AJ’s very name signifies that he is the ‘junior’ version of his dad. (“Meadow,” on the other hand, invokes the regenerative, healing balm of nature.) Anthony Junior is the product and purveyor of a culture of degradation and callousness that his father is very guilty of producing and purveying.
 
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DaRealness

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Cos he was just a loser.

I mentioned before, look at the hell all the kids in The Wire had to go through. They had great minds and talent, but ended up with bad endings because of their environment and constant trauma.

AJ simps and loses one chick and he attempts suicide and loses his mind. Dude was the epitome of white privilege and had everything on a platter. That's why I don't feel sorry for these cac kids when most black kids would give anything to have half the opportunities.
 

jilla82

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he never tried to live up to his dad.

If anything, he didn’t try to take advantage of his privilege.

He hated the fact that his father was in the mob, and tried to distance himself from it as much as he could.

he bagged that Puerto Rican mami because of his last name. But once she realized he wasn’t using it, she dropped him.


Meadow simply used it to her advantage. She worked hard and got into a good school. She was aware of her fathers life and simply adapted. AJ never did.

this scene pretty much sums up the paths meadow and aj would take.


Im not saying he wanted to be tough...
...im saying he didnt feel any pressure to do anything with his life because he had everything already.

No ambition.

AJ used his name...but he wasnt a tough guy....so he could only go so far with it.
 

jilla82

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somebody wrote an interesting thesis in another thread and they actually believed the reverse...where more pressure was actually put on meadow to be successful than AJ...he correlated it to the decay of “manhood” in the US as sons are being coddled and allowed to grow up to become “man-babies”...damn I wish I could remember who posted it
Boys are coddled by mothers...
...and things get worse w/ single mothers.

Add to that...masculinity, in general, is seen as a negative.

What the Sopranos shows is a typical father-son relationship...where the father is successful...and the son is soft.
...AJ had a lot to live up to...but he wasnt the ambitious type...so he didnt know what he was supposed to be.

Society ignores a lot of issues young men have.
The classroom is made for girls.

Boys tend to be rowdier...and more prone to disruption.


Yall going to make me watch this show again :wow:
 

Dave24

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I like what this guy wrote about AJ, who I liked as a character and believed. On a rewatch you can see from jump how detached he is from shyt, from his dad getting shot to people around him dying to events happening around him - he feels shyt but he has no idea what to do with it. He's a bit like his grandma.

I think Toný's reaction to seeing his son drown and then cradling him is one of the most powerful scenes in the show.


The Second Coming (6.19)

This guy breaks down every episode (he has two left that aren't finished), but in the suicide-attempt episode he basically only talks about AJ:

@Soymuscle Mike those reviews he does are amazing! Do you think he will ever compile then and publish it in book form? Would buy it if he ever did that.
 

The Devil's Advocate

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Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven
I know this situation all too well.. I'm the oldest and I was alive for the grind. When we was broke.. When we lived rough.. And witnessed the come up my family had. Then moved out by the time they really came up....

My younger siblings didn't hit school until we was already in the burbs... My brother thinks we just always been like this.. Lazy as fukk.. No street smarts.. Still at home with mom even though he's damn near 30..


He never had it rough. He never seen our parents struggle. He literally told them he thinks they got bread cause look at the house they live in... Never thinking about 10 of us in my grandma house, me and my mom sleeping in the same bed, both parents working 2-3 jobs. So he doesn't appreciate the shyt, nor respect what it's like to not have it, or know where it's coming from....

AJ was the same way. He did try to get gully with his name.. He threw it around a few times and even tried to live the life when he was hitting NYC with his boys... But again.. He never put in work and he never even saw work put in. In every meaning of the word.. Didn't even get his first job until he was damn near grown himself.

Soft
 

AnonymityX1000

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I like what this guy wrote about AJ, who I liked as a character and believed. On a rewatch you can see from jump how detached he is from shyt, from his dad getting shot to people around him dying to events happening around him - he feels shyt but he has no idea what to do with it. He's a bit like his grandma.

I think Toný's reaction to seeing his son drown and then cradling him is one of the most powerful scenes in the show.


The Second Coming (6.19)

This guy breaks down every episode (he has two left that aren't finished), but in the suicide-attempt episode he basically only talks about AJ:
Finally got a chance to read this. I see what they are getting @ with the poem and I definitely think that's part of his character especially how they ended it with him. But I think it isn't as calculated as written here. I got the feeling they just weren't sure where they wanted to go with AJ as a character. They definitely wanted to show he was immature and coddled for his age after he graduated high school but I think they flirted with him 1. Being more like his Dad on a couple of occasions.
  • The first is when he is still in HS and he throws a party that has alcohol. Leading up to the party and during AJ is a major shot caller bossing his HS friends around on who to invite, who not, how the logistics were going to work. Then they introduce he might have a natural skill set toward Event Planning, which also reflects his Dad. Planning events is trying appeal to a wide variety of people. Tony was a people pleaser as well, he wanted to prove he was a good person to a lot of different people in order to justify his career choices as well as refute he was unlovable like his Mom treated him.
  • They hinted he might go more directly his Dad's route when his Dad makes him hang out with Patsy and Carlo's kids. They are a little junior gangster crew and they could have quickly come up due to their connections but they jettisoned that to.
2. They also went the opposite direction:
  • They showed him being the opposite of his Dad. A hard working family man when he was with Bianca. He was working a lot of hours at the pizza shop, taking good care of Bianca's son and being a doting boyfriend to her. They also just abruptly jettisoned that to.
They flirted with him being like Tony twice, once in a constructive way and once in the opposite. Then they said he is the opposite of his Dad. Then they just settled on him being like his Dad in that he's always depressed but unlike him in that he can't function in a depressed state. Him then going into business with Carmine Jr. was out of left field. I guess they just wanted an end point for him. It didn't make much sense to me.
 

GreenGrass

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he's part of the n64 and wrestling generation of kids. he was somewhat spoiled. dude could never walk in his father shoes which is probably a good thing.
 

Robbie3000

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I know this situation all too well.. I'm the oldest and I was alive for the grind. When we was broke.. When we lived rough.. And witnessed the come up my family had. Then moved out by the time they really came up....

My younger siblings didn't hit school until we was already in the burbs... My brother thinks we just always been like this.. Lazy as fukk.. No street smarts.. Still at home with mom even though he's damn near 30..


He never had it rough. He never seen our parents struggle. He literally told them he thinks they got bread cause look at the house they live in... Never thinking about 10 of us in my grandma house, me and my mom sleeping in the same bed, both parents working 2-3 jobs. So he doesn't appreciate the shyt, nor respect what it's like to not have it, or know where it's coming from....

AJ was the same way. He did try to get gully with his name.. He threw it around a few times and even tried to live the life when he was hitting NYC with his boys... But again.. He never put in work and he never even saw work put in. In every meaning of the word.. Didn't even get his first job until he was damn near grown himself.

Soft

His boy Anan was throwing Tony’s name around For clout.

AJ’s lame was was footing 1000 dollar bills, getting his pockets ran by a midget and all he got was a half ass massage from an underage girl.

I really fukking hate that character.
 

Dave24

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Finally got a chance to read this. I see what they are getting @ with the poem and I definitely think that's part of his character especially how they ended it with him. But I think it isn't as calculated as written here. I got the feeling they just weren't sure where they wanted to go with AJ as a character. They definitely wanted to show he was immature and coddled for his age after he graduated high school but I think they flirted with him 1. Being more like his Dad on a couple of occasions.
  • The first is when he is still in HS and he throws a party that has alcohol. Leading up to the party and during AJ is a major shot caller bossing his HS friends around on who to invite, who not, how the logistics were going to work. Then they introduce he might have a natural skill set toward Event Planning, which also reflects his Dad. Planning events is trying appeal to a wide variety of people. Tony was a people pleaser as well, he wanted to prove he was a good person to a lot of different people in order to justify his career choices as well as refute he was unlovable like his Mom treated him.
  • They hinted he might go more directly his Dad's route when his Dad makes him hang out with Patsy and Carlo's kids. They are a little junior gangster crew and they could have quickly come up due to their connections but they jettisoned that to.
2. They also went the opposite direction:
  • They showed him being the opposite of his Dad. A hard working family man when he was with Bianca. He was working a lot of hours at the pizza shop, taking good care of Bianca's son and being a doting boyfriend to her. They also just abruptly jettisoned that to.
They flirted with him being like Tony twice, once in a constructive way and once in the opposite. Then they said he is the opposite of his Dad. Then they just settled on him being like his Dad in that he's always depressed but unlike him in that he can't function in a depressed state. Him then going into business with Carmine Jr. was out of left field. I guess they just wanted an end point for him. It didn't make much sense to me.


Dope analysis @jayshiggs :salute::salute:


I was wondering what do you consider the best season of the sopranos and what would you say are the top 10 episodes?
 
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