What Makes Someone Native American? (Lumbee Tribe) - Washington Post 8/20/2018

[invalid]

I have direct colonial fpoc ancestry with surnames that wade into Lumbee territory.... or shall I say Lumbee surnames that wade into fpoc territory which I think is more of the case. Goings, Locklear, Bullock, Sizemore, Womble, Oxendine, Lowery, Revels, Bond, Chavis. These were all free black names from Maryland, Virginia, and the Carolinas. So it's really funny how these names are prominent throughout the Lumbees.

I treat the Lumbees like the Melungeons. Tri-racial groups of people with very small percentages of actual Native blood that took on new identities as protective measures against state sanctioned racism and discrimination. I don't blame them but at some point you have to be honest with yourself. But I understand some money is on the line so that muddies the waters.

 

[invalid]

My dad’s side of the family are Croatan natives from NC in Sampson county. AncestryDNA showed me some my ancestors who were referenced in this book

These are apparently my (great X 3) grandparents.

The Croatan Indians of Sampson County, North Carolina : their origin and racial status : a plea for separate schools

"The state of North Carolina recognized the Lumbee as Native Americans in 1885. At the time, they were labeled “Croatan Indians” — one of many names given to them over the centuries because they are unable to trace their ancestry to a single Native American tribe. In 1888, the tribe started its long quest for federal recognition."

- The Washington Post

I have cousins that are Manuels, free people of color descendants. They are related to Benjamin Banneker.



Edit 1:

They are descendants of Ephraim Manuel as well.

Descendants of Mary Banneker

^^^^ James Henry Manuel listed on this page is a great grandson of Ephraim who is listed above. But it's to our understanding that they were free negroes.

McCarty-Martin <---------------------Click Link

Ephraim1 Emanuel, born about 1725, was listed in the muster roll of Captain Elisha Williams' Edgecombe County Militia in the 1750's [N.C. Archives Troop Returns, Box 1, folder 12, p.5; Clark, Colonial Soldiers of the South, 675]. He may have been the husband of Hannah Mannuel who was paid by the estate of James Harris of Halifax County, North Carolina, between 10 August 1774 and December 1776 [Gammon, Record of Estates II:26]. He received pay for service in the militia during the Revolution [North Carolina Revolutionary Pay Vouchers, 1779-1782, FamilySearch]. He was taxable on 500 acres and 1 poll in Sampson County in 1784 [GA 64.1]. The Sampson County court recommended that he be exempt from paying tax on 20 September 1785 [Minutes 1784-1800]. He made a deed of gift to his son Jesse of 300 acres on the west side of Coharie Swamp in Sampson County on 15 September 1789 and sold land to Levy Manuel in the same area of Sampson County on 1 April 1795 [DB 8:414; 9:485]. Ephraim was head of a Sampson County household of 3 "other free" in 1790 [NC:51]. He died before 20 March 1804 when Levi Emanuel made an inventory of his Sampson County estate which included 198 acres of land and twelve head of cattle. Buyers at the sale of the estate included Nick Manuel, Levi Manuel, Jesse Manuel (who purchased 8 acres of land), Jesse Manuel, Jr., John Manuel, Kit Manuel, Shade Manuel, Jacob Manuel, Abraham Harden, Micajah Revell, and Elijah Revell who purchased a heifer that was at John Manuel's [North Carolina Estate Files, 1663-1979, Sampson County, Manuel, Ephraim (1804); https://www.familysearch.org].

Edit 2:

Origin of the Manuels were two Negro Slaves.

Nicholas1 Manuel, born say 1680, and his wife Bungey were freed by the 28 October 1718 will of Edward Myhill of Elizabeth City County, Virginia. Other members of his family did not fare as well:

For serving well and faithfully for many years past, two negro slaves Nicholas Manuell and Bungey his wife are to be freed immediately. ... slaves Hanah Manuell, David, William, George, Nicholas the younger, and Elizabeth Manuell are devised to Elizabeth Myhill for life & then divided among children [Deeds, Wills 1715-21, 194-5].

McCarty-Martin <------Link

 

[invalid]

And just to give you all the genetic makeup of some Lumbees which makes it hard to recognize them as natives...

Here is a snapshot of a Lumbee DNA cousin of mine from NC. She is a Locklear and all of her familial lines pretty much intermarried with the same families, in other words, same Lumbee families on both her mother and father sides. So one would think that there would be preservation of Native blood, right?



She has NO native DNA whatsover.

Her "Lumbee" family tree is made up of verified colonial Black names: Locklear, Deese, Dial, Oxendine, Revels, etc.



And this is why in the article the OP posted, it concludes with the women's DNA results still pending......... they are hiding the fact that they are not genetically natives and why their push for recognition has been and will continually go nowhere.

I'll give them being "culturally" native, since they built up this identity over generations and is all that they know at this point. But they are not genetically indian. They are a multi-generationally mixed people whose families were founded by colonial indentured Africans.

 

[im_sleep]

Has anyone done an average DNA test study as far as Native ancestry in the Lumbee or other tri-racial Native tribes in that region?

Part of me wonders if there was a founding group who had some sort of Indian blood and identity, but the bloodlines got smaller as more free people of color married/joined in, yet the identity remained to maintain a cover over their Blackness. I know most of these families history’s go back to the first generations of AA’s that came in the 1600’s.

I got a whole line of multi-generational mixed family who look JUST like those kinds of tribes you see in NC, VA, MD, etc. It’s hard to explain, like a whole nother level of light skinned and mixed up that’s not what you typically see nowadays lol.

I also think they’re the source of the various “Cherokee” “Blackfoot” “Black Irish”, etc. claims you may hear of in some AA families.

 

[Shoog Shatmi]

The Lumbees ancestors we're basically like the AA guys who post here who deny being of African ancestry. Just imagine if those guys and their male descendants pawged for a few generations and told their kids that they were "Indians" or "Native Americans".

In fact, if this Afro-denialism really catches on, there probably be lots more Lumbee-like mixed race people in the future with weird ideas about their origins.

 

[im_sleep]

The Lumbees ancestors we're basically like the AA guys who post here who deny being of African ancestry. Just imagine if those guys and their male descendants pawged for a few generations and told their kids that they were "Indians" or "Native Americans".

In fact, if this Afro-denialism really catches on, there probably be lots more Lumbee-like mixed race people in the future with weird ideas about their origins.

The funny thing is, I’m 99% positive that the whole, “African Americans ain’t African” “Moorish/Indigenous/Cherokee” shyt descends from them(various tri-racial Indian tribes).

my delaware moor great-grandmother

This is just one example out of many, It’s a LONG read but connects a lot of dots IMO.

 

[invalid]

Has anyone done an average DNA test study as far as Native ancestry in the Lumbee or other tri-racial Native tribes in that region?

Yes.

Heralded by journalists, politicians, scholars and laypeople alike as the definitive solution to the “Lumbee problem,” over the past 14 years, 1,761 self-identified Lumbee have voluntarily submitted to testing as part of the Lumbee Tribe Regional DNA Project in a bid to prove their deeply held identity and to silence critics once and for all (2008). To all but the most scientifically literate, what these tests appeared to reveal was both damning and disheartening. The reported results of the sample group had concluded that Lumbee were, on average, 96 percent of African or European lineage with the remaining 4 percent reflecting a combination of West Asian and Indigenous American lineage (Estes, 2009, p. 1).

http://www.dnaexplain.com/Publications/PDFs/WhereHaveAlltheIndiansGone8-30-09JoggV3.2.pdf

 

[invalid]

Part of me wonders if there was a founding group who had some sort of Indian blood and identity, but the bloodlines got smaller as more free people of color married/joined in, yet the identity remained to maintain a cover over their Blackness. I know most of these families history’s go back to the first generations of AA’s that came in the 1600’s.

This is the ludicrous thing about that theory though. No native surnames have been passed down. A great majority of the surnames associated with them are colonial African names. So the core groups of these families had to be African. They didn't join/marry into anything. And the reason why I'm going so hard for this is because I'm a descendant of some of these same families but my ancestors maintained their black identity. The Lumbee's first mess up was in keeping their easily identifiable and traceable last names.

For instance in the family tree of my DNA cousin that I posted above, you'll see the name Cumbo. Here's a bit of info on the name -


"Cumbo is a very unique sounding name. It stands out from the traditionally Anglo names associated with the first inhabitants of Jamestown. The origins of the name have been highly speculated. Is the name from Portugal? Spain? Italy? Based on what I’ve been able to uncover, the surname Cumbo has origins in Africa as well as Southern Europe.

According to Tim Hashaw in his book, “The Birth of Black America”, the Cumbo surname is associated with Angolans who arrived in Jamestown in the early 17th century. He asserts that Cumbo is possibly derived from Kambol, a royal name of Ndongo. The Kingdom of Ndongo, the possible birthplace of Emanuell Cambow, is the name of a sixteenth century African state located in modern day Angola. It was one of a number of vassal states to Kongo that existed in the region, though Ndongo was the most powerful of these with a king called the Ngola.

Here is a second connection I found linking the name to Angola. While navigating a Google Map of Angola, I was able to locate a village in the north of the country named Cumbo. This could be another potential source of the name."

Google Maps

The Origins of the Name Cumbo - Cumbo Family Website

 

[im_sleep]

This is the ludicrous thing about that theory though. No native surnames have been passed down. A great majority of the surnames associated with them are colonial African names. So the core groups of these families had to be African. They didn't join/marry into anything. And the reason why I'm going so hard for this is because I'm a descendant of some of these same families but my ancestors maintained their black identity. The Lumbee's first mess up was in keeping their easily identifiable and traceable last names.

For instance in the family tree of my DNA cousin that I posted above, you'll see the name Cumbo. Here's a bit of info on the name -


"Cumbo is a very unique sounding name. It stands out from the traditionally Anglo names associated with the first inhabitants of Jamestown. The origins of the name have been highly speculated. Is the name from Portugal? Spain? Italy? Based on what I’ve been able to uncover, the surname Cumbo has origins in Africa as well as Southern Europe.

According to Tim Hashaw in his book, “The Birth of Black America”, the Cumbo surname is associated with Angolans who arrived in Jamestown in the early 17th century. He asserts that Cumbo is possibly derived from Kambol, a royal name of Ndongo. The Kingdom of Ndongo, the possible birthplace of Emanuell Cambow, is the name of a sixteenth century African state located in modern day Angola. It was one of a number of vassal states to Kongo that existed in the region, though Ndongo was the most powerful of these with a king called the Ngola.

Here is a second connection I found linking the name to Angola. While navigating a Google Map of Angola, I was able to locate a village in the north of the country named Cumbo. This could be another potential source of the name."

Google Maps

The Origins of the Name Cumbo - Cumbo Family Website

True. Do you think the traditions, pow wows, etc. are made up then?

It’s just wild to me that appropriation could go that level without some kind of source, even if 7+ generations ago.

Good point on the names, even names like Chavis to my understanding are an Anglo version of Chavez, which points straight to the Angolans who were brought here through the Portuguese.

All of it seems to point to back 1619 Jamestown, VA.


Foreal I feel like this stuff is the most misunderstood and secretive part of AA history.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Lumbee ( and ton of other isolate groups in the same regions) are basically an early offshoot stock of free light skinned afroamericans (mainly the product of black men and white women...this is why they were freed at such an early time because if you had a white mother, you couldn't be a slave) who may or may not (mostly, not) absorbed a small amount of real amerindians. They had been freed so long (gong back to the 1600's) that they looked down on the newly freed blacks (post civil war) and went real far out of their way to not be grouped into/by the USA 2 tier system, so they started claiming they were Native Americans to have a separate identity.

@ 1:00



The info below gives some info on the dynamics of the line of demarcation between the "old issue negroes" and the newly freed slaves in Carolinas and Virginia



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[IllmaticDelta]

Has anyone done an average DNA test study as far as Native ancestry in the Lumbee or other tri-racial Native tribes in that region?

Lumbee have like 10% or less amerindian DNA while Melungeon basically have zero

Part of me wonders if there was a founding group who had some sort of Indian blood and identity, but the bloodlines got smaller as more free people of color married/joined in, yet the identity remained to maintain a cover over their Blackness. I know most of these families history’s go back to the first generations of AA’s that came in the 1600’s.

the founding groups were straight afroeuropeans with some maybe absorbing in a little amerindian input. Many did get whiter over time because they were light skinned already and would mix with white people

I got a whole line of multi-generational mixed family who look JUST like those kinds of tribes you see in NC, VA, MD, etc. It’s hard to explain, like a whole nother level of light skinned and mixed up that’s not what you typically see nowadays lol.

same here with my VA and Maryland rooted fam

I also think they’re the source of the various “Cherokee” “Blackfoot” “Black Irish”, etc. claims you may hear of in some AA families.

yup

 

[IllmaticDelta]

The funny thing is, I’m 99% positive that the whole, “African Americans ain’t African” “Moorish/Indigenous/Cherokee” shyt descends from them(various tri-racial Indian tribes).

my delaware moor great-grandmother

This is just one example out of many, It’s a LONG read but connects a lot of dots IMO.

yeah, delaware moors

“Mitsawokett: The Moors of Delaware”

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I have direct colonial fpoc ancestry with surnames that wade into Lumbee territory.... or shall I say Lumbee surnames that wade into fpoc territory which I think is more of the case. Goings, Locklear, Bullock, Sizemore, Womble, Oxendine, Lowery, Revels, Bond, Chavis. These were all free black names from Maryland, Virginia, and the Carolinas. So it's really funny how these names are prominent throughout the Lumbees.

yeah, every "Lumbee" name is found in the "AfricanAmerican " identitfied population because Lumbee's are an offshoot of early FPC, afroamerican

I treat the Lumbees like the Melungeons. Tri-racial groups of people with very small percentages of actual Native blood that took on new identities as protective measures against state sanctioned racism and discrimination. I don't blame them but at some point you have to be honest with yourself. But I understand some money is on the line so that muddies the waters.

yup..see below from an older thread on Afram identity and how multilayered it is


As I said before, the "Afram" ethnicity and culture is very multi layered and more complex than many people realize. Afram splinter or subgroups are very regional for example (this also gives more context into the mullato or creole traditions of the lower south)

Basically the Lumbee became an offshoot of Aframs because they didn't want to adhere to the basic 2 tier USA colorline. The ancestors of the Lumbees were called "old issue negroes" which meant they were free(d) before the Civil War.


Free People of Color in the USA

Many free people of color were born free. By the 19th century, there were flourishing families of free coloreds who had been free for generations. In the United States many of the "old issue" free people of color (those free before the Civil War) were descended from African Americans born free during the colonial period in Virginia. Most of those were descendants of white servant women who entered into relationships with African men, indentured servant, slave or free. Their relationships demonstrated the fluid nature of the early working class, before institutionalized slavery hardened lines between ethnic groups. Many of their descendants later migrated to the frontiers of North and South Carolina, Kentucky and Tennessee, and west, as well as further south
​

​

.
.

The people who are known as Lumbees today refused to go to schools with newly freed slaves. This is how they got their own school and helped further their identity as "Indians" rather than "Coloreds-Mulattos-Negroes-Blacks"

Education and recognition

In 1868 the legislature elected during Reconstruction created a new constitution, which established a public education system for the first time in North Carolina. In an effort to re-establish white supremacy, the following year the state legislature required segregated schools to be established for whites and blacks (in the whites view of the binary society, free people of color, or African descended, were essentially included in the latter category because of slavery history). The ancestors of the Lumbee, long free, objected to having to send their children to school with the children of newly emancipated slaves.

Following Reconstruction, in 1885, through the effort of the Democratic representative Hamilton MacMillan, the North Carolina legislature formally recognized the people in Robeson County as "Croatan Indians." It authorized them to establish separate schools for their children. By the end of the 19th century, the "Indians of Robeson County" (as they then were named) established schools in eleven of their principal settlements.[31]

In 1887, the Indians of Robeson County petitioned the state legislature to establish a normal school to train Indian teachers for the county's tribal schools. With state permission, they raised the requisite funds, along with some state assistance, which proved inadequate. Several tribal leaders donated money and privately held land for schools. Robeson County's Indian Normal School has evolved into Pembroke State University and later still, the University of North Carolina at Pembroke
​

​

Lumbee | World Public Library - eBooks | Read eBooks online

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.
They (that old issue negro stock of Virginians) didn't all try to become "Indians" though, so today you have people that are related where some identify as "Lumbee Indian", "Afram and Lumbee or Black Indian" and others only as "Afram". For example

(Afram identified but of the same stock as Lumbee identified people)

What is 'PenderROCK'?

In the beginning was the Walker Family Reunion. Then came the Wheelers. Then came the Williams. So it became the Walker+ Family Reunion.

There used to be the Jacobs Family Reunion. There was also the Merritt Family Reunion. They beget the Jacobs-Merritt Family Reunion.

The Walker+ people and the Jacobs-Merritt people are kin. They started having reunions together -- the Jacobs-Merritt/Walker+ Family Reunion.

The name became rather long and cumbersome.

Who are these people and why are they all in the same family group? They are descendants of people who have lived in Pender County since at least 1765 (Esther Jacobs was on the tax roll that year). They were colored people. They were colored beige. They were colored yellow. They were colored red. They were colored brown.

North Carolina had many clans of free colored people. Each clan was heavily interrelated and was also related to neighboring clans. So the Pender colored people are kin to the Robeson colored people and the Sampson colored people and the Brunswick & Bladen & Columbus colored people.

Some of the other people no longer identify themselves as “colored”. They have become Indian or white. The Pender people continued to be called colored or mulatto. Today, they self-identify as black and/or African American. But they’re still colored beige and colored yellow and colored red and colored brown. And they’re still trying to be free.

Half of the surnames [Jacobs, Messick, Walker, Wheeler] have lived in Pender County since the 1700s. Thus, the combined reunion was renamed the Pender Reunion Of Colored Kindred (PenderROCK).

Half of the families [West, Merritt, Williams] came to Pender from nearby Sampson County in the 1880s. PenderROCK has been strengthened by the increasing attendance of Sampson County cousins who share the same lineage
​

​

PenderROCK > 'PenderROCK'?

 

[GoAggieGo.]

Lumbee ( and ton of other isolate groups in the same regions) are basically an early offshoot stock of free light skinned afroamericans (mainly the product of black men and white women...this is why they were freed at such an early time because if you had a white mother, you couldn't be a slave) who may or may not (mostly, not) absorbed a small amount of real amerindians. They had been freed so long (gong back to the 1600's) that they looked down on the newly freed blacks (post civil war) and went real far out of their way to not be grouped into/by the USA 2 tier system, so they started claiming they were Native Americans to have a separate identity.

The more you know! Appreciate the info drop, as I didn’t know this. Seems like we could use information like this today, as info like this should show and tell us something!

 

[im_sleep]

@IllmaticDelta good shyt as usual!

It’s a trip to me how groups like the Haliwa-Saponi and Lumbee came up with their names like no one would deem that shyt suspect.


I assume they used generic identifiers like Cherokee and Blackfoot before coming up with their current names.