What is Black American Culture? (inspired by The Salon)

[Arris]

As an immigrant I find I have seen no perceptible difference between 'African-American' customs and other Americans.

In regards to what? can you give some examples of what your people do culturally and compare to what you've observed americans do?

 

[keepemup]

In regards to what? can you give some examples of what your people do culturally and compare to what you've observed americans do?

We speak a different language. We dress differently. When getting scolded by our parents we do not put our hands in our pockets, nor do we allow our parents to see them.

 

[Arris]

We speak a different language. We dress differently. When getting scolded by our parents we do not put our hands in our pockets, nor do we allow our parents to see them.

AAVE (ebonics), , there's no set way that kids react to getting scolded in america that's completely up to the individual set of parents. wouldn't really identify that as a cultural practice here. how long have you been in america and what are the demographics where you live? if you don't mind?

anymore examples you can think of?

 

[K.O.N.Y]

In theory, people working in their self interest are suppose to take stewardship of their culture in order to preserve, propagate, and and market it to member outside their culture for profit, which can become a really big deal when you talk about as I've said before with the entertainment and tourism industries by exploiting people's natural attraction towards the exotics. African-Americans have abysmally failed in this regard.

Both Afr'Ams and the Japanese have massively influential cultures on a global level. But, the difference is that the Japanese act as militant ambassadors of their culture and take ownership of it to the full extent, to the point where no "westerner" would dare to try and openly claim anime or karate as "western culture" simply because it's popular in the West for fear of the ensuing swarm of Japanese who would certainly jump down their throat in defense of their culture. They make sure patrons of their culture pay financially and pay dues. Whereas if some white person were to claim Jazz, Electro-Techno, or Rock & Roll music as apart of "western culture", you would probably have some AAs who would be right there nodding along with them. And even if they knew deep down that it was wrong they wouldn't have the intellectual wherewithal to know how to effectively pick apart these fallacies and crush them, because of, how you say, cultural unawareness.

I agree with most of this. But I believe the dynamic is different
The japs have their own country to push their influence, Aframs do not. If say, Japanese-Americans created Anime in America, than I think their situation would mirror ours

Black americans have a hand in the creation of western culture, not simply just spectators.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I agree with most of this. But I believe the dynamic is different
The japs have their own country to push their influence, Aframs do not. If say, Japanese-Americans created Anime in America, than I think their situation would mirror ours

Black americans have a hand in the creation of western culture, not simply just spectators.

Yup

 

[Supper]

I think it's harder to do because AfroAmeicans aren't a nation/country. With Japanese culture, at the end of the day we know what country this stuff is coming from which also happens to be very homogenous whereas as AfroAmericans originated/grew up in a nation where we're just a small group in a sea full of white people plus other ethnic groups. What this does, is that whatever we come up with, it gets appropriated by the masses and then becomes standard American pop culture for everyone and then it can often obscure (to many people) the origins. With white people being the masses and controlling most of the media..there is almost no way for AfroAmericans to avoid what happens like what happened to Rock N Roll

True it's more of a challenge when you don't have the administrative capabilities of say have a whole nation behind you, but there's still plenty of opportunities in the private ownership, patenting, general intellectual integrity maintained by being the voice of truth through propaganda(social media is a powerful thing), and more than anything good old fashion closing ranks around your culture by continuing to practice it or at the very least know about it and support people who do in America. And we should also keep in mind that the hispanic americans have managed to successfully do this to an extent with Salsa and Cholo/Chincao culture which were birthed in America but are wholly attributed to Hispanics(sometimes outside the US to people who don't know any better). Chincao culture actually absorbed a lot of influences from African-Americans as with as it was largely based around the swing scene in California and iconic style of dress was the zoot suit which was a fashion pioneered by African-Americans. Mexicans-Americans were quick to follow African-Americans into Rock and Roll with their own style they called Chicano Rock in the 50s. And you yourself have already spoken about the influences of African-Americans on the Latin-NY salsa scene. Even with that do you think these Generic "Latinos in America"(as they tend to do away titles tying them to specific countries) would let African-Americans or the dominant white society swoop down and appropriate their culture so easily despite the fact that white people probably love salsa more than Cubans or Puerto Ricans?

Sure it's harder then in the case of the Japanese seeing as they have a national identity to maintain their integrity, but you have to admit there's a large amount of apathy on the part of African-Americans when it comes to this stuff. I see now a better example would've been to use Hispanic-Americans vs African-Americans attitude towards stewardship of their culture

 

[Supper]

AfroAmerican culture is very vast which is why I laugh when people keep acting like Afram culture starts and ends with HipHop. Aframs who aren't from the gulf coast or mid west probably don't know there is a modern ongoing Black Cowboy/Rodeo culture and people who aren't AfroAmerican probably have no idea period on the existence of Afram cowboy culture.

Lol Yep, Creole Cowboy checkin' in. My family have been cattle ranching on their own land since the days of emancipation of our forefathers in Roberston County, TX and our family still owns land in that County. Trail riding among African-Americans especially during rodeo time is HUGE down here. There's even an online group specifically for them. They say that Houston is the only place in the US were you can see dudes in the "hood" riding around on horses, and so far I can confirm this to be true. I don't even see that in Louisiana when I go visit my folks over there(lot of chicken raising though).

Also @KidStranglehold You're right American Cowboy culture is a creole culture: West African + Spanish + Native American. The Fulanis of W. Africa were known for their brush burning & open grazing techniques to raise cattle such as those used by cowboys in America. Plus the migratory routes taken by early American cowboys mimics that of the Fulani people, and not europeans.

Fulani influence on American cowboy culture


Also, it was an Afr'Am named Bill Pickett here in Texas that invented the bulldogging technique used in the Rodeo competitions. Here's the only known footage of him performing.

 

[Supper]

I agree with most of this. But I believe the dynamic is different
The japs have their own country to push their influence, Aframs do not. If say, Japanese-Americans created Anime in America, than I think their situation would mirror ours

Black americans have a hand in the creation of western culture, not simply just spectators.

Afr'Ams should keep in mind that "western" really just means Greco-Roman European civilizations, so that's basically all of non-soviet europe. And the title was only extended into areas outside of Europe due to colonialism if said places were inhabited by people majority in of white european stock. So, African-Americans on our own would never be included in that. It's just a code word today to mean "white countries". Why would we want our culture to contribute or to be associated with their idea of "white countries"? It's better to reject that term when it's applied to any cultural innovation that is ours.

 

[Blackout]

I agree with most of this. But I believe the dynamic is different
The japs have their own country to push their influence, Aframs do not. If say, Japanese-Americans created Anime in America, than I think their situation would mirror ours

Black americans have a hand in the creation of western culture, not simply just spectators.

Having a hand with creation?

It was more like having our culture copied ex Elvis Presly more so than having a hand.

So in a way we did became spectators after having them come after our culture and not collectively fending them off.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

True it's more of a challenge when you don't have the administrative capabilities of say have a whole nation behind you, but there's still plenty of opportunities in the private ownership, patenting, general intellectual integrity maintained by being the voice of truth through propaganda(social media is a powerful thing), and more than anything good old fashion closing ranks around your culture by continuing to practice it or at the very least know about it and support people who do in America. And we should also keep in mind that the hispanic americans have managed to successfully do this to an extent with Salsa and Cholo/Chincao culture which were birthed in America but are wholly attributed to Hispanics(sometimes outside the US to people who don't know any better). Chincao culture actually absorbed a lot of influences from African-Americans as with as it was largely based around the swing scene in California and iconic style of dress was the zoot suit which was a fashion pioneered by African-Americans. Mexicans-Americans were quick to follow African-Americans into Rock and Roll with their own style they called Chicano Rock in the 50s. And you yourself have already spoken about the influences of African-Americans on the Latin-NY salsa scene. Even with that do you think these Generic "Latinos in America"(as they tend to do away titles tying them to specific countries) would let African-Americans or the dominant white society swoop down and appropriate their culture so easily despite the fact that white people probably love salsa more than Cubans or Puerto Ricans?

Sure it's harder then in the case of the Japanese seeing as they have a national identity to maintain their integrity, but you have to admit there's a large amount of apathy on the part of African-Americans when it comes to this stuff. I see now a better example would've been to use Hispanic-Americans vs African-Americans attitude towards stewardship of their culture

Also you can add Italian-Americans vs African-Americans towards stewardship of their culture. I'll touchbase on Italian-Americans controlling their culture later.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

Afr'Ams should keep in mind that "western" really just means Greco-Roman European civilizations, so that's basically all of non-soviet europe. And the title was only extended into areas outside of Europe due to colonialism if said places were inhabited by people majority in of white european stock. So, African-Americans on our own would never be included in that. It's just a code word today to mean "white countries". Why would we want our culture to contribute or to be associated with their idea of "white countries"? It's better to reject that term when it's applied to any cultural innovation that is ours.

So what would you classify AA culture/innovation as being? Considering our culture is largely attributed to our unique American experience

 

[IllmaticDelta]

True it's more of a challenge when you don't have the administrative capabilities of say have a whole nation behind you, but there's still plenty of opportunities in the private ownership, patenting, general intellectual integrity maintained by being the voice of truth through propaganda(social media is a powerful thing), and more than anything good old fashion closing ranks around your culture by continuing to practice it or at the very least know about it and support people who do in America. And we should also keep in mind that the hispanic americans have managed to successfully do this to an extent with Salsa and Cholo/Chincao culture which were birthed in America but are wholly attributed to Hispanics(sometimes outside the US to people who don't know any better). Chincao culture actually absorbed a lot of influences from African-Americans as with as it was largely based around the swing scene in California and iconic style of dress was the zoot suit which was a fashion pioneered by African-Americans. Mexicans-Americans were quick to follow African-Americans into Rock and Roll with their own style they called Chicano Rock in the 50s. And you yourself have already spoken about the influences of African-Americans on the Latin-NY salsa scene. Even with that do you think these Generic "Latinos in America"(as they tend to do away titles tying them to specific countries) would let African-Americans or the dominant white society swoop down and appropriate their culture so easily despite the fact that white people probably love salsa more than Cubans or Puerto Ricans?

The difference with them and AfroAmerican creations is that white americans and other non-AfroAmericans appropriate and adapt from AfroAmerican ways because we've basically been setting the standards in popular music/culture since the 1890's. Aframs are the root to the "cool aesthetic" in America

Ronald Perry writes that many words and expressions have passed from African-American Vernacular English into Standard English slang including the contemporary meaning of the word "cool."[19] The definition, as something fashionable, is said to have been popularized in jazz circles by tenor saxophonist Lester Young.[20] This predominantly black jazz scene in the U.S. and among expatriate musicians in Paris helped popularize notions of cool in the U.S. in the 1940s, giving birth to "Bohemian", or beatnik, culture.[8] Shortly thereafter, a style of jazz called cool jazz appeared on the music scene, emphasizing a restrained, laid-back solo style.[21] Notions of cool as an expression of centeredness in a Taoist sense, equilibrium and self-possession, of an absence of conflict are commonly understood in both African and African-American contexts well. Expressions such as, "Don't let it blow your cool," later, chill out, and the use of chill as a characterization of inner contentment or restful repose all have their origins in African-American Vernacular English.[22]

When the air in the smoke-filled nightclubs of that era became unbreathable, windows and doors were opened to allow some "cool air" in from the outside to help clear away the suffocating air. By analogy, the slow and smooth jazz style that was typical for that late-night scene came to be called "cool".[23]

Marlene Kim Connor connects cool and the post-war African-American experience in her book What is Cool?: Understanding Black Manhood in America. Connor writes that cool is the silent and knowing rejection of racist oppression, a self-dignified expression of masculinity developed by black men denied mainstream expressions of manhood. She writes that mainstream perception of cool is narrow and distorted, with cool often perceived merely as style or arrogance, rather than a way to achieve respect.[24]

Designer Christian Lacroix has said that "...the history of cool in America is the history of African-American culture".[25]

White americans and other non-latinos rarely copy anything from Latin Americans outside of a few things (Salsa in ballroom dance for example) but not in mass numbers like they do with AfroAmerican culture. Puerto Ricans rarely copy Mexicans and vice versa but both of these groups have been influenced by AfroAmericans. So in the end, AfroAmerican will have a harder time trying to keep non-AfroAmericans from appropriating our stuff

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Fulani influence on American cowboy culture


Also, it was an Afr'Am named Bill Pickett here in Texas that invented the bulldogging technique used in the Rodeo competitions. Here's the only known footage of him performing.

 

[NvrCMyNut]

It's difficult to define you're culture when you're living it. For example when I'm in the US i say I'm Dominican, but when I'm in DR i realize how much of an American & non-Dominican I really am.


People say this country is just a mix with no definitive culture, if this was true foreigners wouldn't complain about American cultural imperialism.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

There is even a distinct Black Appalachian/Piedmont culture