What is and is not a Black film?

[valet]

Training Day? Director, lead, hood?

 

[MJ Truth]

Love Jones

 

[Neuromancer]

Training Day? Director, lead, hood?

I would say no.

 

[Neuromancer]

Not imo. It's one of the films that sparked the discussion on the pod, and a lot of them said yes because it had 2 black leads. I disagree. I know it's a movie black folks love, but there's nothing black about it except the lead actors. The story isn't unique to our experience, the cast isn't majority black, nor the writing or directing. It's as black as any other movie with a black main character, just happens to be a buddy cop joint with 2 of them in that one

Word.

 

[nieman]

I think a black film is just something that black people identify with, as being black. So the general movie goes/watcher has no idea what is and what isn't.

I always stump them with Coming to America. It's easily a Landis film, and it was written by 2 white SNL staff writers. But since it has a black identity, it's a black film. But something like Inside Man, or Axis, or even Fast movies won't be considered a black movie.

I think people need to stop placing creative arts in a box.

 

[re'up]

A movie that while doesn't exactly exclude white people, isn't written, directed, plotted to white people's (general) taste, but the lines can get really blurry.

Movies like The Wood, The Brothers, The Best Man, Waiting to Exhale, Soul Food can essentially work for anyone, as the themes are universal, but the movies revolve around the black experience, or a version of it, and not the white one.

 

[StraxStrax]

I think a black film is just something that black people identify with, as being black. So the general movie goes/watcher has no idea what is and what isn't.

I always stump them with Coming to America. It's easily a Landis film, and it was written by 2 white SNL staff writers. But since it has a black identity, it's a black film. But something like Inside Man, or Axis, or even Fast movies won't be considered a black movie.

I think people need to stop placing creative arts in a box.

I'm kinda on this page but for me it's more like there isn't anything called a black movie or a white movie. If your struggle getting into a movie is first and foremost based on the color of the actors/director/writer etc you might be racist. Of course things we identify with will hit us harder and race can be a part of that in some cases but a skin color is not the defining thing about a person.

Unless you are racist ofcourse.

 

[Zero]

Let's not be obtuse:

A film with a majority black cast intended for black audiences.

 

[Atsym Sknyfs]

Creed is not ...

 

[Atsym Sknyfs]

the vast majority's definition is probably gonna be a "hood" movie.

i tend to lean on the experience. does the themes capture what i experienced as a black person in America

 

[Ziggiy]

I think a black film is just something that black people identify with, as being black. So the general movie goes/watcher has no idea what is and what isn't.

I always stump them with Coming to America. It's easily a Landis film, and it was written by 2 white SNL staff writers. But since it has a black identity, it's a black film. But something like Inside Man, or Axis, or even Fast movies won't be considered a black movie.

I think people need to stop placing creative arts in a box.

I think that the issue is that specific GENRE’S that have never historically catered to black audiences make it so that black people in general cannot identify themselves within that genre or plot. For instance Inside Man is a heist thriller. Heist thrillers havent typically catered towards black people so its hard for black people to look at that flick and say “I identify with that situation”.

Now if you make that exact same movie and lets say keep Denzel, Chiwetol Ejiofor, Spike Lee, etc. and sub out Jodi Foster for Viola Davis and Clive Owen for Wesley Snipes, and switch the plot for Nazi diamonds to African conflict diamonds, you have an undoubtedly BLACK film. Black audiences on the whole i’d bet would LOVE to see a movie like that and it would assistin breaking a cinematic mental barrier between black audiences and certain genres.



The Fast Franchise is truly considered multi-ethnic. The director and writer who started the franchise was White and it starred two white men. Then you had John Singleton do the second, an Asian director the third, and so on so forth. Its not even 80% black characters its a nice mixture, which is part of the reason why it does so well at the box office, but in no way could be ever be argued as a “black” franchise because it doesn’t have black culture or characters at its core.


Coming To America is considered a “Black” movie because even though the directors and writers were white, as I said in an above post, Eddie Murphy conceived the story, had a hand in picking the cast members, and hand picked John Landis to direct. If black owned production companies had of been a big thing in the 80’s Coming To America would have been to Eddie Murphy what Bad Boys is Will Smith (Smith’s production company Overbrook produced Bad Boys 2 and Bad Boys For Life) with the amount of influence and guidance Eddie had at the time. So Eddie was able to keep the authenticity of something like Black barbershops, black churches, etc pure.

 

[nieman]

I think that the issue is that specific GENRE’S that have never historically catered to black audiences make it so that black people in general cannot identify themselves within that genre or plot. For instance Inside Man is a heist thriller. Heist thrillers havent typically catered towards black people so its hard for black people to look at that flick and say “I identify with that situation”.

Now if you make that exact same movie and lets say keep Denzel, Chiwetol Ejiofor, Spike Lee, etc. and sub out Jodi Foster for Viola Davis and Clive Owen for Wesley Snipes, and switch the plot for Nazi diamonds to African conflict diamonds, you have an undoubtedly BLACK film. Black audiences on the whole i’d bet would LOVE to see a movie like that and it would assistin breaking a cinematic mental barrier between black audiences and certain genres.



The Fast Franchise is truly considered multi-ethnic. The director and writer who started the franchise was White and it starred two white men. Then you had John Singleton do the second, an Asian director the third, and so on so forth. Its not even 80% black characters its a nice mixture, which is part of the reason why it does so well at the box office, but in no way could be ever be argued as a “black” franchise because it doesn’t have black culture or characters at its core.


Coming To America is considered a “Black” movie because even though the directors and writers were white, as I said in an above post, Eddie Murphy conceived the story, had a hand in picking the cast members, and hand picked John Landis to direct. If black owned production companies had of been a big thing in the 80’s Coming To America would have been to Eddie Murphy what Bad Boys is Will Smith (Smith’s production company Overbrook produced Bad Boys 2 and Bad Boys For Life) with the amount of influence and guidance Eddie had at the time. So Eddie was able to keep the authenticity of something like Black barbershops, black churches, etc pure.

My argument has always been why do black people in general have to culturally identify with a movie for it to be a black movie? Because it becomes black people can only identify with what they understand, which general seems to only be based on their black experience. So it basically becomes movies made for Black Americans vs movies made for everyone else. So now The Black Experience is only tied to certain things. The problem lies in what you see in front of the camera vs what you see behind...Coming to America. And for Eddie to be black superstar in 80's, none of his movies were black movies. He has the one just mentioned, and Harlem Nights. His movies could've been played by anyone.

Let's take Spawn. There was a time in comics where Spawn was the biggest superhero on the planet. Not DC's Trinity, not an X-Man, not Hulk or Spidey was bigger. A few years later, he's a black superhero with a movie. But it's not a black movie. And if any of those Tyler Perry movies were written/directed by any other ethnicity, black people would be calling for their head.

 

[steadyrighteous]

Black Creator/Black Writer/Black Director (Spike Lee. Ryan Coogler, ect)

80% Black Cast

OR

If the movie is about a black historical figure and is filmed from that figures point of view regarding the black community and/or his/her place within the world. (Dolemite Is My Name. The Color Purple)

This.

Not imo. It's one of the films that sparked the discussion on the pod, and a lot of them said yes because it had 2 black leads. I disagree. I know it's a movie black folks love, but there's nothing black about it except the lead actors. The story isn't unique to our experience, the cast isn't majority black, nor the writing or directing. It's as black as any other movie with a black main character, just happens to be a buddy cop joint with 2 of them in that one

And this.

 

[manyfaces]

I think a black film is just something that black people identify with, as being black. So the general movie goes/watcher has no idea what is and what isn't.

I always stump them with Coming to America. It's easily a Landis film, and it was written by 2 white SNL staff writers. But since it has a black identity, it's a black film. But something like Inside Man, or Axis, or even Fast movies won't be considered a black movie.

I think people need to stop placing creative arts in a box.

I don't think it HAS to be written or directed by black people, but that can help in story having an authentic black voice that we can identify with. When that doesn't happen our portrayal in movies and media in general can appear cartoonish, buffoonish or just flat phony. And it's not too say that we're a monolith that all thinks and acts the same, but clearly there are some shared experiences that we as a large group can relate to, and we can tell when it doesn't pass the smell test, and is written by people who THINK, this how black people act and speak. In the case of Coming to America, even though it was written and directed by white people, it's clear that there was some input by Eddie, Arsenio, or others, as scenes like the Black Awareness meeting and at Might T sharp, while comical, still feel and sound like us, without seeing insulting. At the end of the day there is no clear cut definition, and I think you hit it on the head, as it really comes down to what we as viewers feel and identify with as being black.

There is nothing that speaks to our blackness in movies like the Fast series other than having a few black characters (including a few that get by because they are more racially ambiguous), which is why it never got that designation.

 

[manyfaces]

My argument has always been why do black people in general have to culturally identify with a movie for it to be a black movie? Because it becomes black people can only identify with what they understand, which general seems to only be based on their black experience. So it basically becomes movies made for Black Americans vs movies made for everyone else. So now The Black Experience is only tied to certain things. The problem lies in what you see in front of the camera vs what you see behind...Coming to America. And for Eddie to be black superstar in 80's, none of his movies were black movies. He has the one just mentioned, and Harlem Nights. His movies could've been played by anyone.

Let's take Spawn. There was a time in comics where Spawn was the biggest superhero on the planet. Not DC's Trinity, not an X-Man, not Hulk or Spidey was bigger. A few years later, he's a black superhero with a movie. But it's not a black movie. And if any of those Tyler Perry movies were written/directed by any other ethnicity, black people would be calling for their head.

I hear what your saying but I look at it the other way there's nothing wrong with us calling movies we identify with culturally as black movies. The bigger issue is why does the rest of America/Hollywood feel that they can't relate/identify or enjoy watching things from our perspective. Our movies are consistently underfunded, under promoted, actors underpaid, and we're underhired for jobs behind the camera, even though our movies consistently overperform when they speak to us. It's why Tyler Perry is making a killing now, because he spoke to a group of people that basically went ignored by Hollywood. I'm not a fan, but my mother, granny (RIP), and aunt's all love them. IMO he needs some writers in the worst way, they're poorly acted and directed, and I find the same ridiculous tropes in every movie exhausting, but I see what he's trying to do and I respect it.

My hope is that with his new studio he continues to bring in new black talent, in front of, and especially behind the camera. And just because we want to be able to identify with a character, it doesn't mean they have to be in the hood, or church, or some type of athlete or entertainer. We know we can be more. It's why Black Panther had such a huge impact, because we got to see heros, villains, and settings that represented us, not just characters that just happened to be black and can be substituted for any color swap. I'd love to see sci-fi, mysteries, action and all other movie genres come from that studio and finally put us in a light to shine all across the board. If all that comes from there is more Madea movies and poorly written dramas I'll be disappointed.