What if Kobe went to the Charlotte Hornets the team that drafted him

[Swagnificent]

The problem is you're automatically assuming the best case scenario for Kobe, a scenario that has ZERO percent chance of happening. Why even bring up that 2001 hornets squad when they drafted davis with the 3rd pick in '99. If they still had Kobe what's the chances they still have the 3rd pick in '99? You just picked the best Hornets squad since Kobe was drafted and automatically tried to fit Kobe into that, nikka that's not how it works. Charlotte has already shown us their inadequacy with surrounding their best players with everything necessary to get it done (baron davis, chris paul).

You're stating he would have someone else but how can you state that so definitively? That's the problem with yall dikkriders, yall try to marginalize the efforts of everyone else around (in this case the Lakers front office). Kobe was fortunate to have went to an organization like the Lakers, an organization that KNOWS WTF THEY ARE DOING. Something Charlotte has not proven BEFORE OR AFTER kobe. There is no guarantee that Charlotte would have provided Kobe with that "SOMEONE ELSE". In fact all signs show that they wouldn't have. Who was the "SOMEONE ELSE" that Orlando provided Tmac? Who was the "SOMEONE ELSE" that Cleveland provided Lebron? Who was the "SOMEONE ELSE" that Philly provided Iverson? You see a common theme here? Not only that would they have also gotten the necessary coaching as well, again all signs point to NO they would not have.

Why are you comparing Kobe to T-Mac and AI? One was super talented but consistently injured and the other simply wasn't as good as Kobe cause he was 6'0". Kobe minus Shaq or no titles would still be much better than both of them because he more talented than AI and stayed consistently healthy more than T-Mac.

LeBron had a decent enough crew that they won 60+ games 2 straights years and had the best record in the league. The issue with the Cavs was not the players around him, it was the fact he consistently CHOKED in the playoffs. Give Kobe those teams and he would've closed the deal and won the titles.

Kobe only needs one and half good players to win a title. Give him a fringe all-star (like Gasol) and a decent better than average player like Odom and he would've won multiple titles in Charlotte. He was simply too talented.

You see Kobe's career path as more luck than his greatness. I see it as more to do with his greatness than being in a lucky situtation. We'll just have to agree to disagree because this is a what if scenario. The reality as we know it today has Kobe has a 5 time champ, MVP, finals MVP, and widely recognized as a top 10 player to ever play the game. You can attribute that to others if you want but the reality of the situation is that YOU DON'T KNOW that he wouldn't have been just as great in another situation. Its simply your opinion and conjecture.

 

[dunkman6]

Why are you comparing Kobe to T-Mac and AI? One was super talented but consistently injured and the other simply wasn't as good as Kobe cause he was 6'0". Kobe minus Shaq or no titles would still be much better than both of them because he more talented than AI and stayed consistently healthy more than T-Mac.

LeBron had a decent enough crew that they won 60+ games 2 straights years and had the best record in the league. The issue with the Cavs was not the players around him, it was the fact he consistently CHOKED in the playoffs. Give Kobe those teams and he would've closed the deal and won the titles.

Kobe only needs one and half good players to win a title. Give him a fringe all-star (like Gasol) and a decent better than average player like Odom and he would've won multiple titles in Charlotte. He was simply too talented.

You see Kobe's career path as more luck than his greatness. I see it as more to do with his greatness than being in a lucky situtation. We'll just have to agree to disagree because this is a what if scenario. The reality as we know it today has Kobe has a 5 time champ, MVP, finals MVP, and widely recognized as a top 10 player to ever play the game. You can attribute that to others if you want but the reality of the situation is that YOU DON'T KNOW that he wouldn't have been just as great in another situation. Its simply your opinion and conjecture.

They won 60 with him and 19 the next.

This ain't got nothing to do with Bron, leave him out of it. Just face the fact that Kobe's career would be shades of 2004-2007 unless somehow MAGICALLY the Hornets found a gem in the draft or traded for another star. Nobody can do it by themselves year in and year out.

 

[Swagnificent]

They won 60 with him and 19 the next.

This ain't got nothing to do with Bron, leave him out of it. Just face the fact that Kobe's career would be shades of 2004-2007 unless somehow MAGICALLY the Hornets found a gem in the draft or traded for another star. Nobody can do it by themselves year in and year out.

They had a ton of injuries and lost some players. Still I agree that the team was much worse without LeBron. But that isn't cause LeBron was carrying a bunch of nobodies but rather they were all catch and shoot players that were good defenders. They built the team around LeBron being the only guy who could create his own shot and surrounded him with shooters to give him spacing. Put any other decent shot creator in that situtation and they would've had success as well. I could easily see Kobe winning titles with those teams if he was still in his prime. Kobe never played with as many great shooters as LeBron had in Cleveland that could also play defense.

And before you make LeBron out to be some god that accomplished what no one else could, just look at the Heats record the following year with him. They won LESS GAMES than his 2 seasons in Cleveland. In fact, last years Heat only tied what the 2009 Cavs did winning 66 games. Those Cavs teams were VERY TALENTED. They didn't have guys who could create their own shots which is why everyone thinks they were bad teammates. But they were all dead-eye shooters and great defenders. They were more astutely built to highlight LeBron's skills than almost any other collection of players.

I could see prime Kobe or prime D-Wade or prime D-Rose taking those Cavs teams to the finals.

 

[L&HH]

Why are you comparing Kobe to T-Mac and AI? One was super talented but consistently injured and the other simply wasn't as good as Kobe cause he was 6'0". Kobe minus Shaq or no titles would still be much better than both of them because he more talented than AI and stayed consistently healthy more than T-Mac.

LeBron had a decent enough crew that they won 60+ games 2 straights years and had the best record in the league. The issue with the Cavs was not the players around him, it was the fact he consistently CHOKED in the playoffs. Give Kobe those teams and he would've closed the deal and won the titles.

Kobe only needs one and half good players to win a title. Give him a fringe all-star (like Gasol) and a decent better than average player like Odom and he would've won multiple titles in Charlotte. He was simply too talented.

You see Kobe's career path as more luck than his greatness. I see it as more to do with his greatness than being in a lucky situtation. We'll just have to agree to disagree because this is a what if scenario. The reality as we know it today has Kobe has a 5 time champ, MVP, finals MVP, and widely recognized as a top 10 player to ever play the game. You can attribute that to others if you want but the reality of the situation is that YOU DON'T KNOW that he wouldn't have been just as great in another situation. Its simply your opinion and conjecture.

Im not comparing them as players Im comparing their situations. Im saying he would more or less end up in the EXACT situation those guys were in. A talented great player stuck on a bad franchise that can't surround him with the necessary talent and coaching to get the job done.

You say Lebron choked, no the problem with Lebron as was the problem with Kobe in 2004-2007 is he was the only option. Once you get to the playoffs and play teams like the Pistons and Celtics who can shutdown the top option and you have no secondary option to turn to you will LOSE. Kobe faced that Celtics team that beat Lebron and didnt he shoot his POSTSEASON WORST 6-24 in game 7 and the team still won. You know why they won because when the Celtics shut him down the Lakers still had a formidable secondary threat in Pau Gasol who had 19 & 18. Ron Artest even chipped in with 20. Lebron on Cleveland did not have this luxury, if you shut Lebron down GAMEOVER, its a wrap. Something tells me that Kobe in Charlotte in the playoffs would suffer the same fate as Bron in Cleveland if he would get to that point.

Im not saying Kobe's career was all luck. Im saying he was FORTUNATE to have been traded to the Lakers. A team/organization that before Kobe KNOWS how to win, they know how to surround their star players with the proper complimentary star players, role players, and coaching. From Magic Johnson and Kareem to Kobe and Shaq with Phil, to Kobe, Pau, Odom and Phil. That organization gets it. That same "it" that's liking in many other organizations and is the reason they are in the state they're in. One of those organizations being Charlotte.

 

[dunkman6]

They had a ton of injuries and lost some players. Still I agree that the team was much worse without LeBron. But that isn't cause LeBron was carrying a bunch of nobodies but rather they were all catch and shoot players that were good defenders. They built the team around LeBron being the only guy who could create his own shot and surrounded him with shooters to give him spacing. Put any other decent shot creator in that situtation and they would've had success as well. I could easily see Kobe winning titles with those teams if he was still in his prime. Kobe never played with as many great shooters as LeBron had in Cleveland that could also play defense.

And before you make LeBron out to be some god that accomplished what no one else could, just look at the Heats record the following year with him. They won LESS GAMES than his 2 seasons in Cleveland. In fact, last years Heat only tied what the 2009 Cavs did winning 66 games. Those Cavs teams were VERY TALENTED. They didn't have guys who could create their own shots which is why everyone thinks they were bad teammates. But they were all dead-eye shooters and great defenders. They were more astutely built to highlight LeBron's skills than almost any other collection of players.

What Cavs team are you referring to that had so many shooters? I think you're talking about the 2009 Magic.
Was it Mo Williams?
Delonate West?
Ilguaskas? Sorry. but these guys are reserves at best who were asked to start. Once again you writing paragraphs about LeBron when you were asked what Kobe's career would be like on the Hornets.

 

[L&HH]

They had a ton of injuries and lost some players. Still I agree that the team was much worse without LeBron. But that isn't cause LeBron was carrying a bunch of nobodies but rather they were all catch and shoot players that were good defenders. They built the team around LeBron being the only guy who could create his own shot and surrounded him with shooters to give him spacing. Put any other decent shot creator in that situtation and they would've had success as well. I could easily see Kobe winning titles with those teams if he was still in his prime. Kobe never played with as many great shooters as LeBron had in Cleveland that could also play defense.

And before you make LeBron out to be some god that accomplished what no one else could, just look at the Heats record the following year with him. They won LESS GAMES than his 2 seasons in Cleveland. In fact, last years Heat only tied what the 2009 Cavs did winning 66 games. Those Cavs teams were VERY TALENTED. They didn't have guys who could create their own shots which is why everyone thinks they were bad teammates. But they were all dead-eye shooters and great defenders. They were more astutely built to highlight LeBron's skills than almost any other collection of players.

I could see prime Kobe or prime D-Wade or prime D-Rose taking those Cavs teams to the finals.

fukk shooters. I'll take the interior presence Kobe has had for the majority of his career over the shooters and spacing Lebron has had anyday. Star Perimeter player and a Strong interior unit or Star Interior play with strong perimeter >>>>>>>>>>>>> The bullshyt Dwight had in Orlando and Lebron had in Cleveand (star player and "shooters"). That's proven to be the best winning formula

Magic/Kareem
Clyde/Hakeem
Kobe/Shaq
Kobe/Odom/Pau
Jordan/Pippen/Rodman
Rondo/Pierce/KG
Duncan/Ginobli/Parker

LeBron has never played with a great interior unit, I bet if he has his career would be completely different

 

[Swagnificent]

Im not comparing them as players Im comparing their situations. Im saying he would more or less end up in the EXACT situation those guys were in. A talented great player stuck on a bad franchise that can't surround him with the necessary talent and coaching to get the job done.

You say Lebron choked, no the problem with Lebron as was the problem with Kobe in 2004-2007 is he was the only option. Once you get to the playoffs and play teams like the Pistons and Celtics who can shutdown the top option and you have no secondary option to turn to you will LOSE. Kobe faced that Celtics team that beat Lebron and didnt he shoot his POSTSEASON WORST 6-24 in game 7 and the team still won. You know why they won because when the Celtics shut him down the Lakers still had a formidable secondary threat in Pau Gasol who had 19 & 18. Ron Artest even chipped in with 20. Lebron on Cleveland did not have this luxury, if you shut Lebron down GAMEOVER, its a wrap. Something tells me that Kobe in Charlotte in the playoffs would suffer the same fate as Bron in Cleveland if he would get to that point.

Im not saying Kobe's career was all luck. Im saying he was FORTUNATE to have been traded to the Lakers. A team/organization that before Kobe KNOWS how to win, they know how to surround their star players with the proper complimentary star players, role players, and coaching. From Magic Johnson and Kareem to Kobe and Shaq with Phil, to Kobe, Pau, Odom and Phil. That organization gets it. That same "it" that's liking in many other organizations and is the reason they are in the state they're in. One of those organizations being Charlotte.

But couldn't you say that about every great player that has won multiple rings? What about Kobe's situation is any different than the situation Magic came into as a rookie? How about Bird? Both went into franchise that knew how to win and were consistently surrounded by great players. Stop acting like Kobe's situation was unique. Every legend with multiple rings had the same fortune.

Why don't you make threads about Magic not winning any rings if he played with the Hawks? Or Bird never winning if he played on the Bucks? I could just as easily argue Jordan would never have won in Chicago if the front office didn't do a great job surrounding him with hall of famers like Pippen and Rodman.

Its seems like ya'll just want to focus just on Kobe when topics like this come up and ignore the fact that every other great player had to have the same fortune. We never argued Kobe was the only player in history that could go anywhere and win. Ya'll are the ones making it seem like Kobe's the only great player who needed to be in the right situation to win, when the reality is every great player needs to be in the right situation to win.

 

[GreatestLaker]

And how would he have won multiple chips in Charlotte? he wouldn't have had shaq, pau gasol, andrew bynum and phil jackson at charlotte.

They would have been just bad enough to get high draft picks.

But yeah this dude predicting championships in Charlotte is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[L&HH]

But couldn't you say that about every great player that has won multiple rings? What about Kobe's situation is any different than the situation Magic came into as a rookie? How about Bird? Both went into franchise that knew how to win and were consistently surrounded by great players. Stop acting like Kobe's situation was unique. Every legend with multiple rings had the same fortune.

Why don't you make threads about Magic not winning any rings if he played with the Hawks? Or Bird never winning if he played on the Bucks? I could just as easily argue Jordan would never have won in Chicago if the front office didn't do a great job surrounding him with hall of famers like Pippen and Rodman.

Its seems like ya'll just want to focus just on Kobe when topics like this come up and ignore the fact that every other great player had to have the same fortune. We never argued Kobe was the only player in history that could go anywhere and win. Ya'll are the ones making it seem like Kobe's the only great player who needed to be in the right situation to win, when the reality is every great player needs to be in the right situation to win.

I agree with you completely. Kobe isn't the only great player that's been put into a great situation. I didn't make his thread. Im just trying to say its asinine to assert that Kobe with Charlotte would replicate the same success he has in LA. Sure the individual numbers would be there, maybe even moreso, that's something you can't take away from Kobe. But as far as the championships? I doubt it. There's a reason why so few teams in the NBA win the Championship, just look in the last two decades its been LA, Spurs, Chicago, Miami, Boston for the most part and that's it. Detroit had a year but who they beat La, and Dallas had their year but they had to be Miami. I don't think any superstar Kobe, Jordan, Lebron or whoever would have done anything in Charlotte , or Toronto, or Milwaukee. Those are just shyt franchises that just don't have a clue.

 

[Swagnificent]

What Cavs team are you referring to that had so many shooters? I think you're talking about the 2009 Magic.
Was it Mo Williams?
Delonate West?
Ilguaskas? Sorry. but these guys are reserves at best who were asked to start. Once again you writing paragraphs about LeBron when you were asked what Kobe's career would be like on the Hornets.

2009 Cavs: Mo Williams (43.6 3fg% on 5.2 3fg attempts per game), Illguaskas (38.5 3fg% on 0.6 3fg attempts per game), Delonte West (39.9 3fg% on 3.6 3fg attempts per game), Boobie Gibson (38.2 3fg% on 3.8 3fg attempts per game), Wally Szczerbiak (41.1 3fg% on 2.3 3fg attempts per game), and Sasha Pavlovic (41.0 3fg% on 1.8 3fg attempts per game). Team 3fg% = 39.3% (2nd in the NBA)

2010 Cavs: mostly the same players with Anthony Parker added and Wally/Pavolvic removed. Team still finished 2nd in the NBA once again 3fg% at 38.1%.

Did you even watch the Cavs back then? Their whole gameplan was predicated on this plethora of 3 point shooters spacing the floor to allow Bron to penetrate. Same model the Heat are using now except instead of it being just LeBron, its Bron and D-Wade. Only non-shooter on those Cavs teams that got major playing time was Varejo. Everyone else was a shooter and LeBron the penetrator who would kick out once the defense collapses.

 

[Swagnificent]

fukk shooters. I'll take the interior presence Kobe has had for the majority of his career over the shooters and spacing Lebron has had anyday. Star Perimeter player and a Strong interior unit or Star Interior play with strong perimeter >>>>>>>>>>>>> The bullshyt Dwight had in Orlando and Lebron had in Cleveand (star player and "shooters"). That's proven to be the best winning formula

Magic/Kareem
Clyde/Hakeem
Kobe/Shaq
Kobe/Odom/Pau
Jordan/Pippen/Rodman
Rondo/Pierce/KG
Duncan/Ginobli/Parker

LeBron has never played with a great interior unit, I bet if he has his career would be completely different

So you think your smarter than Pat Riley? Riley has built the Heat to be basically the Cavs roster part 2 except instead of just having Lebron, they also have D-Wade. Everyone else on the roster are shooters. I mean the Heat have totally discarded the PF position. They've been starting Battlier at the 4 the last two years and their fukkin center Chris Bosh spends all his time out in the perimeter. WHY DO THIS? Because LeBron is possibly the greatest driver of the basketball into the paint of all time.

Why on earth would you want to clog the lane up with bigs if you have a weapon like that?

LeBron's skills are more conducive to the talent he's had around him in Miami and Cleveland than he would've playing with true low post bigs like Gasol/Bynum and a guy who also likes to post up like Odom. LeBron doesn't have Kobe's tremendous perimeter game. He doesn't rain down 3s and long 2s the way Kobe does. To put him on a team with Gasol/Bynum and Odom would nuetralize his biggest strength (driving the ball) because of the lack of spacing, while highlighting his biggest weakness (lack of great outside shooting ability) by forcing him to take more jump shots.

Step your basketball IQ up. There is no way LeBron would look like the player he is today if he played on those Lakers teams with Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. He would be much worse and wouldn't have the same success as Kobe.

 

[Swagnificent]

I agree with you completely. Kobe isn't the only great player that's been put into a great situation. I didn't make his thread. Im just trying to say its asinine to assert that Kobe with Charlotte would replicate the same success he has in LA. Sure the individual numbers would be there, maybe even moreso, that's something you can't take away from Kobe. But as far as the championships? I doubt it. There's a reason why so few teams in the NBA win the Championship, just look in the last two decades its been LA, Spurs, Chicago, Miami, Boston for the most part and that's it. Detroit had a year but who they beat La, and Dallas had their year but they had to be Miami. I don't think any superstar Kobe, Jordan, Lebron or whoever would have done anything in Charlotte , or Toronto, or Milwaukee. Those are just shyt franchises that just don't have a clue.

then lets leave it at that

this thread just seemed to me like nikkas trying to discredit Kobe's legacy vis-a-vis other legends by making it seem like he's the one who needed the right situation to win

 

[L&HH]

So you think your smarter than Pat Riley? Riley has built the Heat to be basically the Cavs roster part 2 except instead of just having Lebron, they also have D-Wade. Everyone else on the roster are shooters. I mean the Heat have totally discarded the PF position. They've been starting Battlier at the 4 the last two years and their fukkin center Chris Bosh spends all his time out in the perimeter. WHY DO THIS? Because LeBron is possibly the greatest driver of the basketball into the paint of all time.

Why on earth would you want to clog the lane up with bigs if you have a weapon like that?

LeBron's skills are more conducive to the talent he's had around him in Miami and Cleveland than he would've playing with true low post bigs like Gasol/Bynum and a guy who also likes to post up like Odom. LeBron doesn't have Kobe's tremendous perimeter game. He doesn't rain down 3s and long 2s the way Kobe does. To put him on a team with Gasol/Bynum and Odom would nuetralize his biggest strength (driving the ball) because of the lack of spacing, while highlighting his biggest weakness (lack of great outside shooting ability) by forcing him to take more jump shots.

Step your basketball IQ up. There is no way LeBron would look like the player he is today if he played on those Lakers teams with Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. He would be much worse and wouldn't have the same success as Kobe.

nikka Pat Riley didn't build this heat roster. This was a pre-planned decision by Bosh, Lebron, and Wade to all team up together. They simply just don't have the capspace to sign a formidable low post big man so they just have to do with what they can. If they could get one Im sure they would, being right now their biggest weakness is their interior and would be the reason why they would lose (Pretty much why they beat OKC with ease but had to fight for their lives against San Antonio and Indiana, hell even Boston in the ECF). Lebron and Wade on the same team is not the most effective combo out there, they both have the same weaknesses and damn near do the same thing offensively, essentially neutralizing one another. That's how Pop was able to exploit them in the Finals (Lebron actually can shoot but he just wasn't taking the shoots which made it even worse)

 

[Swagnificent]

nikka Pat Riley didn't build this heat roster. This was a pre-planned decision by Bosh, Lebron, and Wade to all team up together. They simply just don't have the capspace to sign a formidable low post big man so they just have to do with what they can. If they could get one Im sure they would, being right now their biggest weakness is their interior and would be the reason why they would lose. Lebron and Wade on the same team is not the most effective combo out there, they both have the same weaknesses and damn near do the same thing offensively, essentially neutralizing one another. That's how Pop was able to exploit them in the Finals (Lebron actually can shoot but he just wasn't taking the shoots which made it even worse)

They need a defensive big to play against teams like the Pacers that expose that weakness. But they don't one for offense. This is already the most efficient offense in the league because they space everyone out and have Bron penetrate into the lane. If defenders collapse they kick it out to the plethora of shooters, if they don't, then Bron takes the layup or dunk. He's the best driver of the basketball in NBA history and also the best finisher.

Why on earth would you want to take this away? Bron simply wouldn't play as well with a big down low as he does being surrounded by shooters. The big would clog the lane. Why do you think the Heat use Bosh at the 3 point line when they play the Pacers. They wanna move Big Roy Hibbert outta the paint so he doesn't stop Bron's drives. You put a traditional big down there, then you take away Bron's biggest strength.

Bron is still not anywhere close to the perimeter player Kobe is. With a real big in the post, then Bron would be forced to do what he doesn't do that well, while taking away what he does best.

 

[mrlongjohn10in]

They need a defensive big to play against teams like the Pacers that expose that weakness. But they don't one for offense. This is already the most efficient offense in the league because they space everyone out and have Bron penetrate into the lane. If defenders collapse they kick it out to the plethora of shooters, if they don't, then Bron takes the layup or dunk. He's the best driver of the basketball in NBA history and also the best finisher.

Why on earth would you want to take this away? Bron simply wouldn't play as well with a big down low as he does being surrounded by shooters. The big would clog the lane. Why do you think the Heat use Bosh at the 3 point line when they play the Pacers. They wanna move Big Roy Hibbert outta the paint so he doesn't stop Bron's drives. You put a traditional big down there, then you take away Bron's biggest strength.

Bron is still not anywhere close to the perimeter player Kobe is. With a real big in the post, then Bron would be forced to do what he doesn't do that well, while taking away what he does best.

Man I cant believe I actually agree with you