was Michael a better Godfather then Vito?

[Poetical Poltergeist]

^^ Pantangeli may have came out of nowhere but he was excellent. The way they basically threw clemenzas name as dying for half a second was meh, so I feel u there.

 

[SkillClash]

so Vito was the better don, socially....but Michael was better when it came to buisness

 

[Taadow]

I watched this again over this weekend.......Oddly I actually found Michael quite depressing in part 2. Dude almost seemed depressed the whole fukking movie. Michael just seemed completley burdened by the job of being the Don. He never wanted to be apart of the life but was thrust into the role to save his father and protect the family. You gotta remember he never wanted THIS life. He had to learn what to do on the fly. I'm sure Sonny was being trained for this forever, he was just too hot headed and couldn't think rationally.

You right. Again, Mike didn't want to be Don from jump...really, at the beginning, you question whether he wants to be a Corleone!

Michael was very unlucky in that his first wife Appolonia who was more suited for him was blown up in a car bomb. Kay was an outsider to the culture and could never understand why Mike lived the way he did & constantly asked questions she never should have asked. Mama Corleone knew her role and never asked Vito those questions. Appolonia being Italian would have understood & played the role better. That's a major reason for him failing family wise and ending up alone. He chose the wrong one. Kay was great for him when the goal was him trying to separate himself from the family business becoming Senator or Governor Corleone but she didn't fit his Mafia boss lifestyle. She never accepted him as is and spent the whole marriage hoping that he'd become legitmate. The fact that he had to lie to her was more of the problem than the fact that he did lie. Let's say Appolonia lives and Mike becomes the Don, they move back to NYC....I doubt he has his son aborted and/or dies alone with no one to take position of Don but Vito.

Michael wasn't "unlucky" - they murked his broad! lol

That pretty much showed him that he could still be touched wherever he was. They didn't know Appolonia was gonna drive his ride, that bomb was meant for him.

See, Mike thought what he was doing in Italy was some seperate chit...he just met a bomb young thang from the old country and was just gonna kick it...all that chit going dyne in America was over there. I mean, isn't it strange that Michael - this man who is ride or die for his family - doesn't have any relatives at his wedding to Appolonia?? Nobody in the states ever mentions his marriage to Appolonia - it's like they didn't even know she existed.

Kay, on the other hand, was an outsider to the culture as you say...but she was who Mike wanted. It's not that she "never accepted him as is", or "spent the whole marriage hoping that he'd become legit" - that was Michael's goal, not hers. It was that she couldn't take her kids out to get some groceries because Mike kept them locked up in a fortress all day because he was scared they would get touched (like Appolonia, or Vito out in the streets buying oranges) because he had the streets so hot from murking everybody. No broad nowhere wants to live like that.

Mike wanted an outsider to the life, because he didn't want to be a part of that life ultimately. He got his wake-up call talking to Senator Geary who essentially told him "Look cuz - no matter how much you're clockin', y'all ain't chit, you don't belong here, and imma be all in ya pockets, nicca..." He was never gonna be "legit" let some folks tell it...

Michael didn't have to lie to Kay, he chose to. I mean, you don't tell your wife a cot damn thing about your dirt. Look at Hyman Roth - when Mike went to his house and they started gettin' down to business, Hyman closed the door from his wife and turned the football game up. His wife ain't know chit about what he was on. Kay was different from all them ladies though...not just because she wasn't Italian (remember - Hyman's wife wasn't either). This was a different time - this was the early 70's! Educated women like Kay wasn't takin' that ol' school chit from no man. They were askin' questions, speaking up when they wanted to, and yes - getting abortions! That was some new chit then! You have to look at the context the films came out in to truly understand ish like that.

I think Mike had it much harder in that he had more people turning against him and he always made the tough & correct decisions. That said he could have treated his team better & there would have been less traitors. As someone said about Tessio, Clemenza, Frankie & Tom. Part of running an organization is how you treat your workers. Tessio never would have turned on Vito.

I can see why you would say this, but iono. I mean:

Tessio was down wit' Vito from way back, of course he's not gonna turn on his man...but Vito is gone now. And he and Clemenza was capo status...why don't they get to decide what goes on in the streets over li'l Mikey, who ain't even really in this thang?

Frankie got played. I kinda felt bad for him. He's in the streets gettin' hell from the Rosatos, and his Godfather (who has let it be known he's down to shed blood) ain't gonna get his back for business reasons? And then, he gets set up and thinks Mike is the one who set it up? I don't condone snitching, but I see why he might've done it.

When you get down to it, Tom was not Mike's real brother. It is what it is. You get the feeling Mike did Tom like that because of that fact.

I agree that Mike had it harder and had to make tough calls, but I think some of it was out of his hands.

Mike had so many tough decisions tho....How could he not murk Carlo knowing he's responsible for Sonny? Do you put yourself and the family in jeopardy just because that's your sister's husband? Ultimately I think he made the right decision but I think he had so many lose/lose decisions. The Decision to kill Fredo was the right one.

I agree.

Vito definitely handles that Senator Geary situation much better. Like someone said Vito is much better at dealing with people.

I wonder if Vito would've even had a meeting like that with somebody like Senator Geary. We know Vito had "political connections", but we don't know how deep they went, and it seems like he was all about local interests. I'm still not sure how Vito wouldn't felt about doing the Vegas thing, because we know he had some kind of moral compass.

In some ways I think the argument for Vito vs Michael is a time based argument. I'm not sure if Vito survives in Michael's era. Maybe he goes too light on a Fredo or a Carlo & gets caught slipping. Michael is like Marlo in the sense where he'd rather not risk it. He doesn't want to take everyone out, just his enemies.

The only issue I have here is that at one point, it seems like everyone was Michael's enemy. lol

 

[pete clemenza]

its not that michael didnt respect tom. he was a good consigliere. michael just told him that with the move to vegas shyt could get real and that he wasnt built like that. michael was trying to legitimize the family and i think he preferred tom to be the family's lawyer/attorney instead. keep him clean and away from the "dirty" parts of the business if you will

He actually told Tom that he wasn't a "war time consigliere"

 

[Methodical]

I watched the Godfather Trilogy today on MaxHd channel.

On the Godfather 2 at the ending, Michael looked so depressed and had his flashback with his family (Vito's Birthday Party Dinner Scene) that shyt made me so sad. I felt Michael's pain.

Michael was never supposed to be part of the family business. He was supposed to be a lawyer or something else by what his Father wanted but Michael wants make his own decisions not by his father or his brothers ...you noticed Sonny and Tom kept reminding him about what his father want. Sonny was supposed to take over as Godfather when their father died, but, Sonny has gunned down at a toll booth. That forced The father to make a decision as to who should replace him and he chose Michael.

Michael said to Kay in GF Part 1 that the Corleone family business would be legit in a certain number of years. Obviously that time had passed and Kay was upset that Michael was still a mob boss and figured he would never go legit. That is why she had the abortion. Because it was a boy and the boy would end up inheriting the family business from Michael just as Michael had from his father Vito. Remember her words, "This must all END!" Then he gave her a quick left hook to the jaw. Michael kept promising to her but it will never end. That's why Kal said to him, "Funny, You said the Corleone Family will completely legitmate with five years but it had been pass over 7 years"

Vito = Happy Boss

Michael = Sad Boss

The way I look at it.

The Corleone Family = Gambino Family

Vito = Carlo Gambino

Michael = Paul Castellano

Vincent - John Gotti

If that make sense to you?




,

 

[Crakface]

Please read the books. Way more details into characters and sides of the game that werent touched on at all.

They never gave the background of Micheals bodyguard, the x cop who helped him takedown the bosses at the end of godfather 1.

They never told you how interesting the life of Johnny Fontane was.

 

[R=G]

You right. Again, Mike didn't want to be Don from jump...really, at the beginning, you question whether he wants to be a Corleone!



Michael wasn't "unlucky" - they murked his broad! lol

That pretty much showed him that he could still be touched wherever he was. They didn't know Appolonia was gonna drive his ride, that bomb was meant for him.

See, Mike thought what he was doing in Italy was some seperate chit...he just met a bomb young thang from the old country and was just gonna kick it...all that chit going dyne in America was over there. I mean, isn't it strange that Michael - this man who is ride or die for his family - doesn't have any relatives at his wedding to Appolonia?? Nobody in the states ever mentions his marriage to Appolonia - it's like they didn't even know she existed.

Kay, on the other hand, was an outsider to the culture as you say...but she was who Mike wanted. It's not that she "never accepted him as is", or "spent the whole marriage hoping that he'd become legit" - that was Michael's goal, not hers. It was that she couldn't take her kids out to get some groceries because Mike kept them locked up in a fortress all day because he was scared they would get touched (like Appolonia, or Vito out in the streets buying oranges) because he had the streets so hot from murking everybody. No broad nowhere wants to live like that.

Mike wanted an outsider to the life, because he didn't want to be a part of that life ultimately. He got his wake-up call talking to Senator Geary who essentially told him "Look cuz - no matter how much you're clockin', y'all ain't chit, you don't belong here, and imma be all in ya pockets, nicca..." He was never gonna be "legit" let some folks tell it...

Michael didn't have to lie to Kay, he chose to. I mean, you don't tell your wife a cot damn thing about your dirt. Look at Hyman Roth - when Mike went to his house and they started gettin' down to business, Hyman closed the door from his wife and turned the football game up. His wife ain't know chit about what he was on. Kay was different from all them ladies though...not just because she wasn't Italian (remember - Hyman's wife wasn't either). This was a different time - this was the early 70's! Educated women like Kay wasn't takin' that ol' school chit from no man. They were askin' questions, speaking up when they wanted to, and yes - getting abortions! That was some new chit then! You have to look at the context the films came out in to truly understand ish like that.



I can see why you would say this, but iono. I mean:

Tessio was down wit' Vito from way back, of course he's not gonna turn on his man...but Vito is gone now. And he and Clemenza was capo status...why don't they get to decide what goes on in the streets over li'l Mikey, who ain't even really in this thang?

Frankie got played. I kinda felt bad for him. He's in the streets gettin' hell from the Rosatos, and his Godfather (who has let it be known he's down to shed blood) ain't gonna get his back for business reasons? And then, he gets set up and thinks Mike is the one who set it up? I don't condone snitching, but I see why he might've done it.

When you get down to it, Tom was not Mike's real brother. It is what it is. You get the feeling Mike did Tom like that because of that fact.

I agree that Mike had it harder and had to make tough calls, but I think some of it was out of his hands.



I agree.



I wonder if Vito would've even had a meeting like that with somebody like Senator Geary. We know Vito had "political connections", but we don't know how deep they went, and it seems like he was all about local interests. I'm still not sure how Vito wouldn't felt about doing the Vegas thing, because we know he had some kind of moral compass.



The only issue I have here is that at one point, it seems like everyone was Michael's enemy. lol

When the shyt goes so far, you have to kill your brother. You're in over your head....this started as protection. How the fukk does it end with Killing your only surviving brother?

 

[Taadow]

When the shyt goes so far, you have to kill your brother. You're in over your head....this started as protection. How the fukk does it end with Killing your only surviving brother?

From Michael's viewpoint, Fredo wasn't his "brother", he was his "enemy".

 

[R=G]

Showed how much of a sociopath he degenerated into...went from telling his father "I told I can handle it. I will handle it." to that scene on the couch with him disowning his brother. A epic fall from grace.

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Vito had more compassion than Michael

 

[Konnan]

Don Vito was the GOAT character in movie history

Arriba la raza

 

[Malik]

Michael sold his soul when he killed his brother. But there was nothing he could do. Fredo was bitter about being passed over for his little brother. That jealously was never gonna go away.



He knew full on and well what could happen to Mike when he dealt with Roth and he went along with it anyway. Nah. You so jealous of me, your own brother, you almost got me and my family killed. We can't be family anymore after that. Not saying I would murder my brother but, I understand why Mike did it :stringerwire: How long after that until Fredo tries to pull another stunt or gets caught by the Feds and snitches on the whole family? Fredo was a pitiful excuse for a man :tyler:

 

[Malik]

Al Capone was the youngest of all his brothers. Frank Capone and Ralph Capone were older than Al by 4-5 years but, they fell in line and followed their baby brother. I know this was real life and the Godfather was a movie. Fredo knew he wasn't cut out to be the Don. Be honest with yourself and play your role.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

I watched the Godfather Trilogy today on MaxHd channel.

On the Godfather 2 at the ending, Michael looked so depressed and had his flashback with his family (Vito's Birthday Party Dinner Scene) that shyt made me so sad. I felt Michael's pain.

Michael was never supposed to be part of the family business. He was supposed to be a lawyer or something else by what his Father wanted but Michael wants make his own decisions not by his father or his brothers ...you noticed Sonny and Tom kept reminding him about what his father want. Sonny was supposed to take over as Godfather when their father died, but, Sonny has gunned down at a toll booth. That forced The father to make a decision as to who should replace him and he chose Michael.

Michael said to Kay in GF Part 1 that the Corleone family business would be legit in a certain number of years. Obviously that time had passed and Kay was upset that Michael was still a mob boss and figured he would never go legit. That is why she had the abortion. Because it was a boy and the boy would end up inheriting the family business from Michael just as Michael had from his father Vito. Remember her words, "This must all END!" Then he gave her a quick left hook to the jaw. Michael kept promising to her but it will never end. That's why Kal said to him, "Funny, You said the Corleone Family will completely legitmate with five years but it had been pass over 7 years"

Vito = Happy Boss

Michael = Sad Boss

The way I look at it.

The Corleone Family = Gambino Family

Vito = Carlo Gambino

Michael = Paul Castellano

Vincent - John Gotti

If that make sense to you?




,

Michael chose that life when he killed the policemen and the drug dealer. In the book it explains how this was a mistake on the part of the Corleones. Sonny dying didnt mean much. That would have meant Clemenza would inherit the throne. The entire reason Micheal chose to turn into a demon was because the policemen rocked his jaw when he was guarding his father from the goons at the hospital. He just couldnt let it go.

 

[Methodical]

Michael chose that life when he killed the policemen and the drug dealer. In the book it explains how this was a mistake on the part of the Corleones. Sonny dying didnt mean much. That would have meant Clemenza would inherit the throne. The entire reason Micheal chose to turn into a demon was because the policemen rocked his jaw when he was guarding his father from the goons at the hospital. He just couldnt let it go.

What book were you reading? the name of title?

I've never read any of these books so which book should I cop or how many books should I buy?