Was '99 the year when Wu Tang started to show cracks in the armor with jawns like Rae's Immobilarity, GZA's Beneath the Surface, Dirt's Ni$%a Please+

Awesome Wells

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immobilarity is a lyrical classic

Chef was so mad at RZA during this time, that he was willing to let the A&R's at the label do his beats for the album.

That's the kind of stubborn sh*t that RZA was always talking about. Everybody wanted to be their own bosses, even if that meant making subpar music. So he didn't bring in Ghost, had no production from RZA and said he was gonna be the executive producer himself and do everything on his own. We see the result. He was lucky to get the Pete Rock joint. And that was the best track on the album!
 

bigillwill06

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Chef was so mad at RZA during this time, that he was willing to let the A&R's at the label do his beats for the album.

That's the kind of stubborn sh*t that RZA was always talking about. Everybody wanted to be their own bosses, even if that meant making subpar music. So he didn't bring in Ghost, had no production from RZA and said he was gonna be the executive producer himself and do everything on his own. We see the result. He was lucky to get the Pete Rock joint. And that was the best track on the album!
Casablanca, The Table, 110 rounds, Live From New York, Sneakers, fukk Them are all classic tracks
 

Mac Ten

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99 was a transitional year…

U had Ruff Ryders taking over. Method Man was on Ryde or Die Vol. 2.

Rae should have gotten a beat from Swizz instead of going for the imitation version

RZA was burnt out by 99 so I don’t think that a whole album of Bobby Digital beats would have fit em.


That basement sound was outdated by then as well.


U-God and Deck should have dropped in 96-97
 

Damnshow

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They peaked at Only Built 4 Cuban Linx. That was their best project, absolutely incredible album from start to finish. Followed by arguably as great of an album in GZA's Liquid Swords. Basically late 95 was their peak.

Ironman was a great album as well but not as amazing as those two.

And when Wu forever album dropped the cracks in the armor were visible. While it had some incredible songs, the album was far too long, it did not sound as authentic as their earlier work.

In sports terminology, those earlier albums were Wu championship winning albums and Wu Forever was getting to the finals just to lose there.
 

bigillwill06

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They peaked at Only Built 4 Cuban Linx. That was their best project, absolutely incredible album from start to finish. Followed by arguably as great of an album in GZA's Liquid Swords. Basically late 95 was their peak.

Ironman was a great album as well but not as amazing as those two.

And when Wu forever album dropped the cracks in the armor were visible. While it had some incredible songs, the album was far too long, it did not sound as authentic as their earlier work.

In sports terminology, those earlier albums were Wu championship winning albums and Wu Forever was getting to the finals just to lose there.
I agree about the cracks showing on forever but.... If rza would have condensed it to the more martial arts sampled songs with a few of the street joints that fit that sound it would have been a much grimier and wu esque sounding album. He could of kept the opera sounding shyt for a later project. It was like rza tried to have a sound to make everyone happy on that album even the shampoo 4 the bytches. I liked almost everything but it wasnt a sonically cohesive sound with the double disc.
 

Newark88

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I enjoyed Forever but it didn’t have the across the board club bangers like 36 chambers had.

Protect Ya Neck
Cream
METHOD Man
Wu Tang Clan Ain’t Nothing To F*** Wit

Were just some of the tracks that ruled the clubs from 93 all the way into 95. Forever didn’t have those type of tracks with the exception of Its Yourz.
 

Knucklehead

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*steps into phone booth

You pay attention and remember who i am and what i say because i speaks FACTS from the lord and ya brain is telling you “LISTEN TO HIM” but you fight god at every turn. Thats why all you got to retort is “i follow your posts like a stan”. Go “follow” men on twitter.

The best of the best wu of 98/99 > any rap crews output at same time. Ill go track for track with anyone.

Maybe its after 7 albums, the shine wore off and you got used to it. Because even when it dropped, people called disk 1 a classic off rip. Its disk 2 that people always have a problem with.

But yall judging wu forever based on traditional commercial RAP BULLshyt. When its really a CULTURAL MILESTONE FOR THE ENTIRE GENRE. Ok so it has like 5-6 songs that get redundant after 1.5 hours of onslaught. Ya talking about an album with highs like reunited, troumph, abt, its yours, for heavens sake, impossible etc. you wont find highs like that on 85% rap albums. Did it lack some energy and need some hooks to carry disk 2 yea… for a pop album… which we established its not.

WORLD WIDE #1 album. Not amerixan #1. Wu was big across the globe. Went number 1 in dozens of countries who dont wven soeak english. And yall conparing it to 36 and the traditional rap community and rap albums based on that limited matrix. The album is bigger than reg rap music. This was going into public enemy territory. It transcended CULTURE. And people judge it cause it dont have bops for bytches.

it literally went against every rule in music making. It was a serious album with serious topics; deeper lyrically, spiritually, whatever the fukk ally over 36. 36 is nursery rhymes conpared. 36 was a lifes work vs the book end of a defining era. It was NEVER gonna be like the OG and its some of yall who will never get over that fact even if it hits ya in the face with every artist that ever existed. You expected too much. I was content in what i got. Both nas and wu pulled 180s. Look who from their era still here… nas and wu.

Yall all talking about hype and what people was saying on the block when it reached the GLOBE. an against the grain album meant to solidify the fanbase. It made lifetime fans and made the casuals bounce. Yet while wu was selling less and less, they eere still getting deals because it STAMPED them in a way few rappers been stamped before. Ghost and meth were on majors 10 years after forever dropping big projects. All while “wu fell off”.

That is why wus still around. I knew that at TEN YEARS OLD theyd be the only rappers of the era still going in 20 years based on the art of the albums. Wu shyt transcended popular music. People were tatting themselves with it. Its a cultural thing. Its biblical. Their albums were tooo strong and meant too much ti people compared to other 3 mic typical rap shyt that comes and go and has NO staying power. Yall stan flavor of the motnhs regularly here. Wu is something worth stanning. Every year they existed you can squeeze out a 60 min GEM


Brilliant move by rza in reality. He can be swayed by people 30 years after the fact. But the final tour isnt about 36. Its FOREVER.

“They wont figure it out til the year 2g” = rza already knew all this. Proving my point. What you think he thought the popa wu intro was gon get people to dance? He refused to make the cure be ause he knew he had to live it and was super serious about all of this. he used wu to drop an album about 5% talk in maknstream and risked his career and guys wanna talk about hooks and singles.


And while i do look for good in wu shyt vs bad, i do it because yall shyt on any wu album less than 4.5 mics. you cant name 3 artists with better catalog so ya goddamn right i will defend wu from these weak agendas. Thats why ugod and cap can show up to big shows and promote whatever they want in 2025 while other 90s acts who were plat gotta beg to get on.

People wanna listen to rap music and crash out. Not get a goddamn lesson. It was NEVER gon translate on a POP level, the fact it did in some way is amazing.

But yall went to summer school and i did not. Find somwthing to complaon about. Its cool. i ate my vegatables. But ill POPEYE JAMMY anyone bemsirching wu forever over the dumb bs yall do.

It went as well as it could have. To make high end hip hop AND be popular AND be the draw of draws/original/trendsetting/etc. it was never gonna last FOREVER….



Do i see tical shyttalk now? Maybe i should bring out my “TICAL > ILLMATIC” in real time” thread.

*puts wu cape on
*flys away

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I think you are the singular biggest fan of any artist that I have ever seen.
Respect the passion and dedication.
 

Mike the Executioner

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The coli never admits this, maybe they were too young, but the aura started to fade when Forever dropped. People don't understand the expectations we had for that album. We expected CLASSIC CLASSIC, not 4 mics.

Between this, It Was Written, and Beats, Rhymes & Life, seems like you guys were getting disappointed by a lot of follow-ups back then. :mjlol:
 

Mike the Executioner

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It's true :manny:

You guys were well-fed. Standards were higher back then. Hip hop moved at such a fast pace, you could be left behind by the time your third album came out. Now, we're just happy to get whatever quality we can get these days. :mjcry:
 

Sunalmighty

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They should've listened to RZA more, but egos got in the way and everyone thought they didn't need RZA anymore. RZA 93-97 is arguably the GOAT producer, but he shouldn't stayed truer to his sound instead of trying to be too digital.

Hindsight is 20/20, but even after Forever, they could've just made grimy 1995 sounding ish forever. With the exception of Ghost who sounds ill on the marvelous SC style beats, or Meth who's extremely versatile, they sound their best over the gritty 36 Chambers/early solo style beats. But it's hard to tell artists to keep doing the same shyt over and over, especially with hip hop rapidly changing year by year in the 90s.

But look at Mobb Deep, who basically stuck to the script for 4 straight albums (I'm including HNIC) and they're all banging. No one complained about it either bc it was what the fans wanted.
did something happen with sampling or something where he switched his style up? i remember reading an article where he said he BEGGED Rae to let him produce lex diamond story and rae turned him down.

RZA run is unparalleled
 

Barney Rubble

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You guys were well-fed. Standards were higher back then. Hip hop moved at such a fast pace, you could be left behind by the time your third album came out. Now, we're just happy to get whatever quality we can get these days. :mjcry:
Yeah, it's hard to describe, imagine a classic album dropping every other week, anthems all over the radio and tv, and you're still stuck on albums from years ago in your rotation. I understand younger dudes thinking everything they hear from back then is a classic compared to today's trash, but we had high standards because we were used to REAL classics. Four mics might sound like five mics today, but we didn't think so at the time.
 
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