WaPo Columnist Jamal Khashoggi killed by Saudis in Turkey; Senators Mull Magnitsky Sanctions

Jhoon

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The way he still talks like he's on The Apprentice is still stunning to me. Like he has no concept of gravitas or dignity, or expression of concepts like honor, morals. It is truly a low point in the history of the world, and will be remembered as such.

You would think he was on Shark Tank judging a doughnut truck or something.
His constituents lack empathy. And more importantly, they are only high school graduates.
 

Trajan

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I don't understand the talk of diluting MBS power... He's gone too far, and is too all in for him to check at this point

If he steps aside even a bit, the knives are out. Based on the statement, and the White House approving reaction to it, I'm leaning more and more to Saudi taking a hit in terms of PR and on the investment side, but there won't be sanctions (not significant ones anyways), and MBS is gonna stay in power.

Outside of a coup, he ain't going anywhere. And like others have said, the old guard is too weak, and MBS control over all the key areas of power is too strong

If he would've been got, it would've already happened

Yh it's all or nothing. He already made his play when he shoved aside MBN and arrested who's who of KSA. He has to keep his hands firmly on the levers of power otherwise it's a wrizzap

Plus Saudis dont do figurehead monarchies (unless they're incapacitated and co-sign the next in line to run things).
 

Entropy Fan

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If only UAE can also get some of this work :ohlawd:


Turkey got them in the figure four leg-lock. Saudis kept barking up that tree...till a nice meal fell in Erdogan's lap :shaq:

House of saud isn't fond at all of UAE grooming mbs and engineering the coup against bin nayef.

If mbs falls, the Saudi/uae axis will get a lot weaker.
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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Erdogan's cards are looking crazy right now :damn:




How President Erdogan is using Jamal Khashoggi's murder to his own advantage

How President Erdogan is using Jamal Khashoggi's murder to his own advantage
by Tom Rogan
| October 23, 2018 03:42 PM

Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul — Erdogan's local center of power — the Turkish leader has found a grand opportunity. Enter Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Erdogan views bin Salman as his primary competitor for the global mantle of Sunni-Islamic leadership. And determined to become a kind of neo-Ottoman emperor, Erdogan knows that anything that makes bin Salman look bad is good for him. Indeed, for a ruler of questionable emotional stability such as Erdogan, Khashoggi's plight is an almost too-perfect gift.

After all, it offers Erdogan the means to earn Saudi deference while simultaneously imposing costs on Saudi credibility. On the deference count, the key factor is that Erdogan knows that Saudis know that he knows who is ultimately responsible for Khashoggi's death. Namely, Mohammed bin Salman. In turn, the Saudis are desperate to avoid Erdogan's publication of evidence that would point to bin Salman's culpability. Erdogan may not have this evidence, but the Western intelligence community does. And we should note that Erdogan chose his words very deliberately on Tuesday when he demanded Turkey identify everyone involved in Khashoggi's killing. This complement, Erdogan said, had to include the "one giving the order to the one who carried it out...."

Be under no illusions: That is a warning shot to bin Salman that he had better play nice with Erdogan in the future. Or if not, he should prepare to face harsh consequences for not doing so.

But that's just the start. Because by playing off the global fury that has met Khashoggi’s untimely demise, Erdogan is able to portray himself as an unlikely humanitarian or, at the very least, a not-so-bad leader. He hopes this will allow him to draw international investors and favor away from Saudi Arabia in a way that doesn't necessarily implicate Turkey as the agent of that decline. The underlying motivation here of making Turkey look comparatively better is further fueled by Erdogan's recent foreign policy debacles. Erdogan has grudgingly recognized, for example, that Russian President Vladimir Putin has played him for a fool in Syria. He also appears to be realizing that his multiyear diplomatic breach with America was a mistake. But in Erdogan's eyes, the beauty of Khashoggi's killing (Erdogan is not a nice guy) is that the Saudis have no room to maneuver or otherwise deflect criticism onto anyone else. Put simply, this is a whirlwind wholly of Saudi Arabia's own making.

Even then, Erdogan knows that he must strike a balanced line with the Saudis. Riyadh is already furious with Erdogan for what it regards as his excessive support for Islamist movements beyond Saudi control. But with the Turkish economy struggling, Erdogan has little appetite for punitive Saudi economic measures. For the Turkish leader, then, the great balancing act is extracting maximum concessions from Saudi Arabia, bringing significant negative attention to Saudi Arabia, but also avoiding a complete diplomatic breach with Saudi Arabia. That's why Erdogan is putting the ball in bin Salman's court as to whether he wants to play hardball or not. Both sides, Erdogan ventures, will choose Erdogan's blackmail choice.
 

Piff Perkins

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All you gotta do is think back to 2017 and much of early 2018 for an explanation for why this is huge. KSA spent millions of dollars on propaganda for MBS, proclaiming a "new day" in Saudi Arabia and getting American media and politicians to parrot it. That entire propaganda operation has now been rendered obsolete by this idiotic murder.

On the flip side Turkey is clearly playing this beautifully, stringing it along until they finally release audio or some other proof. What a weird turn of events, from a geopolitical perspective. KSA hated Obama for a variety of reasons, culminating with the Iran Deal which bolstered their largest enemy. Trump came into office and reinforced US commitment to KSA, but even the US withdrawing from the Iran deal didn't kill it (Europe/Asia/Russia still support it). Any sanctions would be devastating. And we might have a democrat president in a couple years who could push even further to punish them.
 

Oldschooler

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What punishment? It's obvious America is trying their best to look away or deflect blame as much as possible. Meanwhile, Turkey out here looking like the defender of the free world :mjlol:
 
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