UNKNOWN BURIALS, THAT RUINED GUYS THAT WE FORGET THE BURIAL AND BLAME THEM INSTEAD

[THEREALBRAND]

He sucked by the time he got to WWF... and Vince's attempt to immediately replace Hogan with Luger as Hogan Version 2.0 made it even worse.

The Narcissist was a good gimmick that was getting heat, and would have eventually gotten him the top heel spot.

The WWF completely ruined any chance he had of getting over when they turned him face with no real explanation. It made no sense and after the initial buzz of him slamming Yoko died he was done because the fans saw through it.

 

[DANJ!]

The Narcissist was a good gimmick that was getting heat, and would have eventually gotten him the top heel spot.

The WWF completely ruined any chance he had of getting over when they turned him face with no real explanation. It made no sense and after the initial buzz of him slamming Yoko died he was done because the fans saw through it.

Pretty much. No disagreement here.

Lex was always a better heel than a face. That whole drive around the country and slap hands with the fans shyt wasn't for him. SOMEBODY might've been able to pull a gimmick like that off, but Lex? Nah... Savage maybe, but he was getting stuck to the announcer's chair...

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

KEN SHAMROCK

98, when the rock turned heel, shamrock was hot asf, a legit credible psycho, not really heel or babyface...

Mind games ppv, he gets screwed by boss man, so rock can win the match and eventually beat mankind and win the title to form the corporation,

Shamrock comes out mad as hell and is a threat to the corporation on the next Raw

Instead of making shamrock a babyface and a threat to rock, and thus, on the same level as rock, foley, austin, hhh, Vince convinces him to join the corporation and makes him the level of BOSSMAN and lower than them.

Shamrock never recovered from that, and was just a goon level threat, and established the corporation pecking order. He would never ever be a main event threat again.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Idk why this is an @Art Barr hate thread, its a very good discussion premise

 

[Art Barr]

Idk why this is an @Art Barr hate thread, its a very good discussion premise

Preciate it,..handshake!



Art Barr

 

[AKM-95]

The Narcissist was a good gimmick that was getting heat, and would have eventually gotten him the top heel spot.

The WWF completely ruined any chance he had of getting over when they turned him face with no real explanation. It made no sense and after the initial buzz of him slamming Yoko died he was done because the fans saw through it.

Yup, if they would have slow burned his turn until 94 he would of had a better run. There was no reason to make him a corny baby face .

All they had to do is have Lex turn baby at rumble 94 by winning from 1st or 2nd spot with a courageous performance and slowly drop the Narcissist stuff. When he face Yoko at Mania 10, he would finally slam Yoko and pin him.(I still don't get why they waisted the Yoko slam on The U.S..S intrepid)

 

[stro]

Yup, if they would have slow burned his turn until 94 he would of had a better run. There was no reason to make him a corny baby face .

All they had to do is have Lex turn baby at rumble 94 by winning from 1st or 2nd spot with a courageous performance and slowly drop the Narcissist stuff. When he face Yoko at Mania 10, he would finally slam Yoko and pin him.(I still don't get why they waisted the Yoko slam on The U.S..S intrepid)

Every time after Hogan that the super push of a face happened in the WWF, it flopped.You can get away with it for a heel, but a face has to have that long term connection to the audience before they're willing to buy him as the top guy. Vince has seemed to skip that part because it worked so well for Hogan, apparently not remembering that Hogan was already established with his company, was wildly popular in the AWA as a top face, wildly over in Japan, and was in fukking Rocky 3 two years prior. Hogan working out the way he did for the WWF wasn't just because Vince said "this is the guy" and the crowds went with it.

I don't know how Vince forgets that every single time he's tried to push a super face after Hogan.

 

[TheAlbionist]

The Lex Express push was the worst thing that ever happened to him... which pretty much categorically refutes that he was "buried" - as a face, he had enough charisma to be mid-card, as a heel, The Narcissist he could've easily been a main event attraction (I'll put my neck out far enough to say it was more effective than the original post-Rockers Shawn Michaels narcissist heel persona) and from that platform could've been turned into a major babyface.

The Lex Express was an inadvertent demonstration of how far off being ready for that role he was and was pretty much just rejected out of hand by the WWF fans which ruined him forever more. I remember it was the first time that I had a "facepalm" moment with the WWF... I was 11, but I knew even then that I could book better than that. Not too dissimilar from the way Reigns was treated in 2015/16 tbh.

 

[mrken12]

Can Art Barr be concise for anything? I really want to read this thread but his ramblings combined with his multiple beefs in this thread make his posts a chore to get through.

 

[Art Barr]

KEN SHAMROCK

98, when the rock turned heel, shamrock was hot asf, a legit credible psycho, not really heel or babyface...

Mind games ppv, he gets screwed by boss man, so rock can win the match and eventually beat mankind and win the title to form the corporation,

Shamrock comes out mad as hell and is a threat to the corporation on the next Raw

Instead of making shamrock a babyface and a threat to rock, and thus, on the same level as rock, foley, austin, hhh, Vince convinces him to join the corporation and makes him the level of BOSSMAN and lower than them.

Shamrock never recovered from that, and was just a goon level threat, and established the corporation pecking order. He would never ever be a main event threat again.

I remember this episode of raw and it was a pisspoor decision.
That also grafted shamrock as lower rate and he never recovered from it either.
When, he should have been booked with better care.
at this exact time to maximize larger drawing programs with him.


Art Barr

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

I remember this episode of raw and it was a pisspoor decision.
That also grafted shamrock as lower rate and he never recovered from it either.
When, he should have been booked with better care.
at this exact time to maximize larger drawing programs with him.


Art Barr

That's exactly right. Shamrock already had a great fued with rock, they easily could've had shamrock as a wild dog that the corporation had to fight off, and had a main event rock vs shamrock for the title while keeping mankind hot still and maintaining until Austin was ready again. Steve blackmon could've been the corporation goon for example, and shamrock a wildcard.

Shamrock never recovered and was never credible again, which was actually DIFFICULT to do considering he was the most dangerous man on the planet....it took him accepting L's from rock twice and a screw job by boss man and effectively bowing down to Vince to strip him of his drawing power.

Very foolish really.

 

[JoogJoint]

Can Art Barr be concise for anything? I really want to read this thread but his ramblings combined with his multiple beefs in this thread make his posts a chore to get through.

I thought I was I was the only one who never understood what the hell he's saying.

He's cool though. Lol

 

[(Lean Ambrose)]

When @Art Barr gets riled up shyt is hilarious...

 

[YvrzTrvly]

Art barr is a fukking treasure.

Remember any online beef is wack as fukk unless u directly involved in it

 

[Art Barr]

That's exactly right. Shamrock already had a great fued with rock, they easily could've had shamrock as a wild dog that the corporation had to fight off, and had a main event rock vs shamrock for the title while keeping mankind hot still and maintaining until Austin was ready again. Steve blackmon could've been the corporation goon for example, and shamrock a wildcard.

Shamrock never recovered and was never credible again, which was actually DIFFICULT to do considering he was the most dangerous man on the planet....it took him accepting L's from rock twice and a screw job by boss man and effectively bowing down to Vince to strip him of his drawing power.

Very foolish really.

Not sure what the motivation behind shamrock being misued was.
besides Russo writing low quality shyt cosigned by McMahon.

I thought I was I was the only one who never understood what the hell he's saying.

He's cool though. Lol

You should ask what it is you are unclear on,....
That is how you solve issues of clarity.


Art Barr