Heimdall

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@Heimdall

funny thing is that i heard that in one of kwarteng's books a statement was made along the lines of "brits being the most feckless workers".

given truss' similar statements and the pressing need for growth to offset the debt, I expect more missives along the same lines to start to enter public discourse.

essentially think pieces, debates along the lines of "do brits have to work harder" or "are brits lazy" etc.

they seem to be determined to go all in for growth and as part of that the working culture needs to change.

i found this:

"BRITISH WORKERS ”ARE AMONG THE MOST IDLE”"


"The book ‘Britannia Unchained: Lessons for Growth and Prosperity’ – written by the education minister and South West Norfolk MP Elizabeth Truss, now an education minister, as well as Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel, Dominic Raab, and Chris Skidmore – reckoned that people who come into the UK from abroad are prepared to work harder than the indigenous population.

The authors wrote: “Once they enter the workplace, the British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.”"


Yes, I'd anticipate policy related to 'reducing idleness' to come out at some point, maybe some tweaking of the Working Time Regulations or something. I can't really think of what there is to change but it's all part of the 'bonfire of red tape' she promised, no? Though I think there are a number of things that might contribute to perceived laziness that policy may not be able to touch. Presenteeism for one. Bad management too (related to previous; see also Stephen's comment below)

Some of the comments on the article are really funny, though I think Stephen's is quite pertinent
I am afraid this is just lazy thinking.
Look at Jaguar LandRover, the BMW Mini plant and the Japanese owned car plants in the UK: they were hotbeds of unrest and lazy workers when they had British owners. It is a sweeping generalisation of course, but the problem is lazy British management not managing.
Until we fix this problem we will continue our decline in the global productivity tables – something that Queen Victoria used to worry about.
If we don’t fix this our children and our children’s children will live in a low wage third class country with poor healthcare, schooling and the rest.
People need to be managed to be more effective.

Read my article “Is paying people to work wrong?” Loading...

Help me get the word to the government, to the bosses to anyone who will listen – please!

And Tony's (I trust him more than any of the authors :russ:)
These statements are simply not true. UK workers in full time employment work the third longest hours in the EU, retire later than all but four countries (yes we even work later in life than Germany), and the GDP per hour worked (how productive our workforce is) is above the OECD average (above Japan, Canada and Korea). So where did these “facts” come from? Nowhere. They are purely prejudiced statements made by young ambitious MPs who are desperate to be noticed and should be treated as the puerile rubbish they are.

I checked one of the references on the book's Wikipedia article (which also has a useful summary), and basically it's saying the book's evidence is weak. They didn't do the work :francis:

Most of the book follows this pattern: a randomly strung-together mixture of anecdote, assertion and rehashed articles from a wide variety of sources, ranging from the Mail to the Economist to that old staple, “A research study found . . .”

At a national level, policymakers need to be more ambitious, take more chances, encourage innovation and risk failure. Unfortunately, as a result of the sloppiness of both the research and the writing, the authors fail to translate this into concrete policy recommendations.

To take one example, it is a clear implication of many of the arguments they make – that we should be open to new ideas; promote competition and innovation; reduce unnecessary red tape, especially in the labour market – that the UK should be more open to immigration, especially skilled immigration. This would not be a panacea but it would certainly help. Now the government they support is moving in precisely the opposite direction, in a manner likely to do considerable economic damage – and yet immigration policy is not even mentioned. They are courageous enough to insult the work ethic of the British labour force, apparently, but not brave enough to confront the shibboleths of their party. That is a pity.

Doing evidence-based policy analysis and turning it into credible policy recommendations is neither quick nor easy. You need to be prepared to trawl through the data, work out what it means, translate that into something that policymakers can understand and help them think through the potential policy implications. On the basis of Britannia Unchained, we still lack politicians who are prepared to get down to this sort of “hard graft”.

So while they may have had a point in some areas, they apparently never really fleshed any sort of applicable approaches, no proper analysis, anything that could at some point even inform policy. Nothing that could not be gleaned from reading the newspaper yourself? (All those degrees between them, and for what? I kid, the start of the article mentions what the 'actual' purpose of the book was)

What I find funny is that this is apparently how Liz Truss sets her policy:
However, Truss’s remarks before this week’s emergency “fiscal event” suggest she could be prepared to go further still in the months ahead, with a full budget expected in November.

She told reporters that the “number one thing” she wanted to deliver was economic growth, adding: “Lower taxes lead to economic growth, there is no doubt in my mind about that.”
Where is the evidence please???

She mentioned MiFID II in one of the debates as well, so I suspect that regulation will be relaxed soon. I don't know how that would contribute to growth (I don't know what it relates to, investment? She literally just blurted it out while Rishi was talking, but I'm sure it currently serves a purpose :P)



Oh, Kwasi. I was hopeful for a few minutes when he was announced as Chancellor. Then I remembered the book.
 

Heimdall

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wow

:deadrose: I can't help but feel that this could have been prevented. "Playing A-level economics 😬"

Imagine if the UK has to get another IMF bailout



A Reddit comment I came across. May need context.
Maybe I underestimated Truss' stupidity. Its amusing to think she is so thick that she's basically just let the cat out of the bag on her first (proper) week in office.

Then again multiple reports do state her to be borderline crazy behind the scenes. The majority of right wing politicians are highly educated enough that most of them could work out what they are saying is bullshyt - they know they are grifters and they are happily stringing people along.... Possibly Truss is so dim that she's drank the cool-aid meant for the working classes and genuinely believes putting money in the pockets of the rich will help everyone, so she doesn't think it needs dressing up.

She's like an Elf at a High Street Santa's Grotto who actually believes in Father Christmas... she's so confident he is real, that she is showing the kids around the back to watch him on his break unaware he is smoking, watching porn on his phone and hanging his beard on the radiator.
BpUEh4x.png
 

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Yes, I'd anticipate policy related to 'reducing idleness' to come out at some point, maybe some tweaking of the Working Time Regulations or something. I can't really think of what there is to change but it's all part of the 'bonfire of red tape' she promised, no? Though I think there are a number of things that might contribute to perceived laziness that policy may not be able to touch. Presenteeism for one. Bad management too (related to previous; see also Stephen's comment below)

Some of the comments on the article are really funny, though I think Stephen's is quite pertinent

And Tony's (I trust him more than any of the authors :russ:)

I checked one of the references on the book's Wikipedia article (which also has a useful summary), and basically it's saying the book's evidence is weak. They didn't do the work :francis:

So while they may have had a point in some areas, they apparently never really fleshed any sort of applicable approaches, no proper analysis, anything that could at some point even inform policy. Nothing that could not be gleaned from reading the newspaper yourself? (All those degrees between them, and for what? I kid, the start of the article mentions what the 'actual' purpose of the book was)

What I find funny is that this is apparently how Liz Truss sets her policy:

Where is the evidence please???

She mentioned MiFID II in one of the debates as well, so I suspect that regulation will be relaxed soon. I don't know how that would contribute to growth (I don't know what it relates to, investment? She literally just blurted it out while Rishi was talking, but I'm sure it currently serves a purpose :P)

Oh, Kwasi. I was hopeful for a few minutes when he was announced as Chancellor. Then I remembered the book.

I agree with much of that.

I am not saying that they have the solution.

If I compare working life in Germany to the UK there is a massive cultural difference, some of which feeds into productivity and I am not sure how easily some of those factors could be changed in the short to mid-term.

I'll link below a documentary about a british couple who went to work in Germany. it's long and you have to read between the lines, but in watching it you can see the difference in focus, application and effort between them and the locals. It's a long watch but it is insightful, if anyone has time.



brits focused on the trimmings and germans focused on the meat.
 

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Paul Dales, chief UK economist at Capital Economics, notes that the “mini-budget resulted in 30-year gilt yields rising from 3.60% to 5.10%, which threatened financial stability by forcing pension funds to sell assets into a falling market in order to meet cash collateral requirements”.

He adds:

In response, and to prevent this from escalating into a full blown financial crisis, the Bank has done two things. First, it has postponed its plans to start selling some of its QE gilt holdings next week and will now do it on 31st October. QT via active sales is still the plan, but it will start a month later.
Second, and more significantly, it has said that it will buy an unlimited amount of long-term gilts from today as necessary to “restore orderly market conditions” until 14th October. In other words, the Bank is restarting QE, although for financial stability reasons rather than monetary policy reasons. These purchases will be temporary and will be “unwound in a smooth and orderly fashion once risks to market functioning are judged to have subsided”.
Utter shytshow
 

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"Economist Blasts The 'Raging Incompetence' Of Truss And Kwarteng
David Blanchflower, who sat on the Bank of England’s monetary policy committee, questions whether the prime minister and chancellor will survive."

"“I have never seen anything like this. I’ve been an economist for 50 years. I went through the great recession, and I have never seen such a raging incompetence ever.”"

""If you're the Chancellor, what you've done is crashed the bond markets, the foreign exchange markets, the stock market has dropped, the housing market is in trouble and you create a giant recession... I've never seen such raging incompetence, ever.""



:francis::picard:
 
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