This discussion must be had. Does LBJ have the same killer instinct/mentality of MJ/Kobe?

[superunknown23]

Linking MJ to Kobe is ridiculous to begin with, especially when it comes to when it matters most: Playoffs and finals
How dare you mention Kobe alongside MJ when he has only one 40-pt game in the finals for his entire career?

 

[FTBS]

Few things:

1. Kobe and Jordan did not have the same mentality . Kobe acted like you got extra points for degree of difficulty. Jordan was just concerned about putting the ball in the basket. He wasn't forcing 3s over multiple people. Jordan was more likely to make the right basketball play with the game on the line than he was to throw up an off balance low odds shot from 35 feet away.

2. If you think Bron doesn't have killer instinct you must be watching the 2011 Finals on a loop or just trolling.

2. All guys at that level (top 10 all time) struck fear in opponents and wanted to rip their hearts out. You cannot make it to that level or near it without being hyper-competitive.

4. Seriously did you see the Finals from this year?

 

[Fortunate Lee]

Linking MJ to Kobe is ridiculous to begin with, especially when it comes to when it matters most: Playoffs and finals
How dare you mention Kobe alongside MJ when he has only one 40-pt game in the finals for his entire career?

What about his game winner against the bucks in the reg season?? Def killer instinct

 

[Fortunate Lee]

Kobe never hit a more important gamewinnner than this



Sorry bulls fans

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Kobe Killer Instinct is a myth that needs to be stopped

(these numbers need to be updated but these were the numbers as of 2014)


The numbers just don't back up Kobe's rep. Let's take a look at some numbers..

Playoff Numbers


KObe

25.6 ppg 45 FG% on 21 FGA

5 rbs


5ast
.
.
.
.
.
.



lebron

28.1 ppg 47 FG% on 20 FGa

9 rbs

7 ast


.
.
.
Jordan

33.4 ppg 49 FG% on 25 FGA

6 rbs

6 ast

Clutch numbers in the playoffs

Playoff clutch time

(old)

updated

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...ch-think-again


I thought KObe was a "killer"?

.
.
.


.


Playoff elimination games


Michael Jordan Elimination Game Averages:

31.3 PPG,

7.9 RPG,

7.0 APG,

2.1 SPG,

1.0 BPG,

4.2 TOPG,

45.8 FG%,

33.3 3P%,

75.7 FT%


.
.
.
.


LeBron James Elimination Game Averages:

31.9 PPG,


10.1 RPG,

6.5 APG,


1.4 SPG,

.6 BPG,

4.5 TOPG,

46.5 FG%,

31.4 3P%,

73.8 FT%

.
.
.

Kobe Bryant Elimination Game Averages:

22.3 PPG,

5.6 RPG,

3.7 APG,

1.2 SPG,

.6 BPG,

3.0 TOPG,

41.4 FG%,

27.5 3P%,

77.9 FT%


Where is KObe "the killer" at in elimination games?

Straight up game 7's or 5's

Michael Jordan G7 Stats:

36.8 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.2 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 4.0 TOPG, 48.9 FG%, 33.3 FG%, 79.7 FT%

-W/out Game 5’s
33.7 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 7.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 3.7 TOPG, 45.7 FG%, 0.0 3P%, 81.8 FT%


.
.
.
.
Kobe Bryant G7 Stats:

21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%

-W/out Game 5’s
22.2 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 2.2 TOPG, 38.9 FG%, 35.8 3P%, 67.3 FT%


.
.
.

LeBron James G7 Stats:
34.4 PPG, 9.0 RPG, 3.6 APG, 1.6 SPG, .4 BPG, 2.4 TOPG, 47.4 FG%, 31.3 3P%, 79.4 FT%


Kobe "The Killer" again, nowhere to be seen


NBA Finals Shooting Numbers




lebron


2007 NBA Final: – 35.6% FG,

2011 NBA Final: 47.8% FG,

2012 NBA Final: 47.2% FG,

2013 NBA Final: 44.7% FG,



.
.
.

Kobe


2000 NBA Finals – 36.7% FG

2001 NBA Finals – 41.5% FG

2002 NBA Finals – 51.4% FG

2004 NBA Finals – 38.1% FG

2008 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG

2009 NBA Finals – 43.0% FG

2010 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG,

.
.
.

Jordan

1990-91 - .558

1991-92 .526

1992-93 .508

1995-96 .415

1996-97 .456

1997-98 .427

.
.
.
.
..


Jordan - 48FG% Finals career


lebron - 44 Fg% FInals career

KObe - 41 FG% finals career



KObe "The Killer" again not showing up

 

[IllmaticDelta]

 

[King Jove]

Kobe Killer Instinct is a myth that needs to be stopped

(these numbers need to be updated but these were the numbers as of 2014)


The numbers just don't back up Kobe's rep. Let's take a look at some numbers..

Playoff Numbers


KObe

25.6 ppg 45 FG% on 21 FGA

5 rbs


5ast
.
.
.
.
.
.



lebron

28.1 ppg 47 FG% on 20 FGa

9 rbs

7 ast


.
.
.
Jordan

33.4 ppg 49 FG% on 25 FGA

6 rbs

6 ast

Clutch numbers in the playoffs

Playoff clutch time

(old)

updated

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...ch-think-again


I thought KObe was a "killer"?

.
.
.


.


Playoff elimination games


Michael Jordan Elimination Game Averages:

31.3 PPG,

7.9 RPG,

7.0 APG,

2.1 SPG,

1.0 BPG,

4.2 TOPG,

45.8 FG%,

33.3 3P%,

75.7 FT%


.
.
.
.


LeBron James Elimination Game Averages:

31.9 PPG,


10.1 RPG,

6.5 APG,


1.4 SPG,

.6 BPG,

4.5 TOPG,

46.5 FG%,

31.4 3P%,

73.8 FT%

.
.
.

Kobe Bryant Elimination Game Averages:

22.3 PPG,

5.6 RPG,

3.7 APG,

1.2 SPG,

.6 BPG,

3.0 TOPG,

41.4 FG%,

27.5 3P%,

77.9 FT%


Where is KObe "the killer" at in elimination games?

Straight up game 7's or 5's

Michael Jordan G7 Stats:

36.8 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.2 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 4.0 TOPG, 48.9 FG%, 33.3 FG%, 79.7 FT%

-W/out Game 5’s
33.7 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 7.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 3.7 TOPG, 45.7 FG%, 0.0 3P%, 81.8 FT%


.
.
.
.
Kobe Bryant G7 Stats:

21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%

-W/out Game 5’s
22.2 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 2.2 TOPG, 38.9 FG%, 35.8 3P%, 67.3 FT%


.
.
.

LeBron James G7 Stats:
34.4 PPG, 9.0 RPG, 3.6 APG, 1.6 SPG, .4 BPG, 2.4 TOPG, 47.4 FG%, 31.3 3P%, 79.4 FT%


Kobe "The Killer" again, nowhere to be seen


NBA Finals Shooting Numbers




lebron


2007 NBA Final: – 35.6% FG,

2011 NBA Final: 47.8% FG,

2012 NBA Final: 47.2% FG,

2013 NBA Final: 44.7% FG,



.
.
.

Kobe


2000 NBA Finals – 36.7% FG

2001 NBA Finals – 41.5% FG

2002 NBA Finals – 51.4% FG

2004 NBA Finals – 38.1% FG

2008 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG

2009 NBA Finals – 43.0% FG

2010 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG,

.
.
.

Jordan

1990-91 - .558

1991-92 .526

1992-93 .508

1995-96 .415

1996-97 .456

1997-98 .427

.
.
.
.
..


Jordan - 48FG% Finals career


lebron - 44 Fg% FInals career

KObe - 41 FG% finals career



KObe "The Killer" again not showing up

Fg% only matters when it comes to shytting on Iverson here on the coli

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth (2011)



In my 25 plus years of following the NBA, one of the more fascinating phenomena to me has been the plight of those that I refer to as “Kobe Nation”. Now, I’m not referring to Kobe “fans” - Many of those are a dime a dozen, stuffing the All-Star ballot box, displaying their #24 jerseys during road games, and riding the Kobe-train as long as the Lakers remain on top. No, I’m talking about Kobe Nation – those who have repeatedly extolled the virtues of Kobe Bryant while partaking on a daily quest to defend his basketball legacy, game performances, and polarizing personality. They are his apostles, and their fervor rivals that of even the most religious of zealots. They respond to criticism, deserved or undeserved, with an inverse defiance that embodies the personality of their hero; the more you critique them, the more combative they will become, the less they will listen, and the more likely you will be called a “hater”. For every action, there is a reaction.

Earlier in the season, ESPN’s Henry Abbott questioned Bryant’s status as the most “clutch” player in the NBA, and as you can imagine, Kobe Nation responded with a fury. Specifically, Abbott defended his stance by citing the Game Winning/Game Tying Shot metric traditionally used by coaches and GMs when scouting opposing teams – shot attempts in the final 24 seconds of a game during which a player’s team is either tied or trails by three or fewer points. And during Kobe’s 15-year career (regular season and playoffs), the results showed that he made only 36 game winning/game tying shots while missing a stellar 79, or 36/115.

So why then is Kobe Bryant considered to be the unanimous first choice among GMs, coaches, and players for taking the game winning/game tying shot for all the marbles? Abbott cites the media’s propensity to exhaust the highlight reel, limitations of human memory, and our attraction to flashiness rather than substance as the primary reasons for why fans, coaches, players, and GMs are misguided]. In sum, people usually remember Bryant’s makes, which are undoubtedly spectacular in nature, but not his misses.

So where do I stand?

First a plea to Kobe Nation…. Allow me to go on record by stating that Kobe Bryant is one of the 10 greatest players to ever play the game. By the time he retires, he will likely be top 5. He is a phenomenal all-around player in every aspect of the game, and possesses a unique combination of talent and skill, that in my opinion, can only be rivaled by Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, LeBron James and Hakeem Olaujuwon. He also has a basketball IQ that is simply off the charts – a unique feel for the game that despite his numerous injuries, has allowed him to remain physically effective in a manner that is traditionally reserved for 20-somethings. Other than Michael Jordan, I have yet to see a player who displays the same level of ferocity, stubbornness, and will to win that Kobe Bryant does.

However, Henry Abbott is right. Kobe Bryant IS overrated in the clutch, and even more so when it comes to game winning/game tying shots. That’s right Kobe Nation, you heard me. In which universe does missing 79 out of 115 game winning/game tying shots constitute clutchness? Clutchness to me has always been defined basically and inherently. You either succeed and come through for your team, when your team needs you the most, or you don’t. And in 115 instances, during the time in which Bryant’s teams have needed him the most, he has succeeded only 36 times while failing 79 times. That’s a 31% success rate folks. It’s that simple.

We are not talking about a complex John Hollinger formula or algorithm. We are talking about a fairly straight forward metric – less than 24 seconds, time winding down, ball in Kobe’s hands, chance to win or tie, miss or make. All other variables are irrelevant:

- “Kobe is the most fearless”

- “Kobe wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game”

- “Kobe has the ability to make the most spectacular shots”

None of this matters. The only thing that matters is the result.

So that got me thinking – if the 36/115 stat includes both playoffs and regular season, how has Bryant performed in game winning and game tying shot situations during the playoffs alone? After all, playoff games are the ones that count the most, right? The pinnacle of pressure? The most important of time of the year when everything is at stake? Is there really a more clutch opportunity than a game winning/game tying shot in a playoff game?

The answer: Bryant is 7/25 or 28% -slightly worse during the playoffs than the regular season.

Keep in mind that the game winning/game tying shot is only ONE metric of clutch, and in a future article we will post additional data reviewing Kobe’s performance during the last 2 minutes, last 5 minutes, and the entire 4Q, which further substantiates my point. However, for now, we will focus on the game winning/game tying shot metric, which in my mind, represents the MOST pressure packed situations in a game.

Below is a breakdown of game winning/game tying shot attempt throughout Kobe Bryant’s 15 year career:

 

[IllmaticDelta]

 

[IllmaticDelta]