They’re Still Redlining - Wall Street has developed new forms of housing discrimination

[DEAD7]

 

[theworldismine13]

If you replaced every single white person at these companies and in these institutions with Afrikans but didn't change anything else, the situation may be slightly better for a period of time for the victims of these situations, but would devolve into the same old story given the economic constraints, imperatives, and incentives of capitalism.

Instead of having whites doing the redlining, you'll have Afrikans doing it. That makes no real difference to the victims.

Co-ops, credit unions, and financial literacy are all good developments as interim steps. They can't be the end goal.

(EDIT: To clarify, financial literacy is imperative, not only as an interim step.)

nobody said anything about replacing white people with a black person

the problem with the article is that it addresses and formulates issues in a way that the only real solution comes from outside of the community and not from within the community
and also im saying the whole notion of reverse redlining is dumb as fuk

whats really going is low financial literacy, low education and black people not owning banks and other financial institutions, so that is the problem that needs to be addressed and the problem needs to be addressed by black people

socialism and liberalism doesnt provide the intellectual space for black people to solve our problems, it only leaves intellectual space for outsiders to solve our problems

 

[Madvillain]

the problem with the article is that it addresses and formulates issues in a way that the only real solution comes from outside of the community and not from within the community

Not necessarily. I'd look further into the author's own work, because again, she didn't actually delve much into the tactics of reaching deprivatization and decommodification. For example, as is the case with historical redlining, if the state/white supremacy is apart of the problem, is challenging the state/white supremacy not at all apart of the solution?

socialism and liberalism doesnt provide the intellectual space for black people to solve our problems, it only leaves intellectual space for outsiders to solve our problems

This is hilarious but not actually grounded in anything analytical. I'm pretty sure you haven't really studied many Marxist movements and uprisings. The Panthers would surely disagree with the bolded

 

[JahFocus CS]

nobody said anything about replacing white people with a black person

the problem with the article is that it addresses and formulates issues in a way that the only real solution comes from outside of the community and not from within the community
and also im saying the whole notion of reverse redlining is dumb as fuk

whats really going is low financial literacy, low education and black people not owning banks and other financial institutions, so that is the problem that needs to be addressed and the problem needs to be addressed by black people

socialism and liberalism doesnt provide the intellectual space for black people to solve our problems, it only leaves intellectual space for outsiders to solve our problems

The point is, the same types of things would happen if only Black banks and financial institutions operated in the community. It isn't all about color - it is about the material distribution of power. Class differences exist within the Afrikan community, it isn't some amorphous mass of people with identical material interests. Let's say we had an analogue of J.P. Morgan that was Black-owned. Why wouldn't they adopt similar tactics to maximize profits?

I agree that folks too often look outside the community for solutions, looking for the government to intervene, etc. I don't care about criticisms of liberalism but the notion that socialism "doesn't provide the intellectual space for Black people to solve our own problems" is absolutely ridiculous. In the first place, this redlining thing is an issue for working-class Afrikans. Bourgeois Afrikans don't have this issue and many of them at these institutions helped facilitate the problem.

In what way does empowering working-class Afrikans to act in their interests and solve their own problems constitute an appeal or plea for outsiders to solve their problems?

 

[theworldismine13]

The point is, the same types of things would happen if only Black banks and financial institutions operated in the community. It isn't all about color - it is about the material distribution of power. Class differences exist within the Afrikan community, it isn't some amorphous mass of people with identical material interests. Let's say we had an analogue of J.P. Morgan that was Black-owned. Why wouldn't they adopt similar tactics to maximize profits?

I agree that folks too often look outside the community for solutions, looking for the government to intervene, etc. I don't care about criticisms of liberalism but the notion that socialism "doesn't provide the intellectual space for Black people to solve our own problems" is absolutely ridiculous. In the first place, this redlining thing is an issue for working-class Afrikans. Bourgeois Afrikans don't have this issue and many of them at these institutions helped facilitate the problem.

In what way does empowering working-class Afrikans to act in their interests and solve their own problems constitute an appeal or plea for outsiders to solve their problems?

how did i miss your point, did you miss that part where i said i think the article is bullshyt and the whole thing about reverse redlining is dumb as fuk? i ddint miss the point, i think the point is bullshyt

the article in no way encouraging the working class to solve their problems, what part of the article said that, can you quote it?

 

[theworldismine13]

Not necessarily. I'd look further into the author's own work, because again, she didn't actually delve much into the tactics of reaching deprivatization and decommodification. For example, as is the case with historical redlining, if the state/white supremacy is apart of the problem, is challenging the state/white supremacy not at all apart of the solution?



This is hilarious but not actually grounded in anything analytical. I'm pretty sure you haven't really studied many Marxist movements and uprisings. The Panthers would surely disagree with the bolded

im against socialism and or marxism, im a capitalist, i believe you "challenge" white supremacy through the free market, individual freedom and education

i respect the black panthers, i dont cosign them

 

[JahFocus CS]

how did i miss your point, did you miss that part where i said i think the article is bullshyt and the whole thing about reverse redlining is dumb as fuk? i ddint miss the point, i think the point is bullshyt

the article in no way encouraged the working class to solve their problems, what part of the article said that, can you quote it?

You missed the point because you think that simply having Afrikans staffing these financial institutions would solve the problem. You also mentioned education and financial literacy. I agree that those are important, but those things alone cannot save everyone from these predatory practices.

My point is that having Afrikan-owned banks won't, by virtue of being Afrikan-owned, change this

Likewise, as I reported recently, Wall Street landlords have begun marketing “rent-backed securities,” a cousin of mortgage-backed securities that instead tap tenants’ rental payments as an income stream for investors. There’s considerable concern from housing advocates that, beyond the potential market instability it could cause, the financial product could also have a disastrous impact on tenants whose housing has been transformed into a new asset class.

In the event that bonds aren’t generating the expected profit for investors, rental companies are likely to hit up tenants for the difference — by skimping on maintenance, hiking rents, or evicting those in properties that would be more profitable to sell.

These are incentives and imperatives created by the economic system, not the color of the people's skins at these firms.

Do you think that in India, for example, there is no exploitation (disregard those who work for foreign corporations for a moment) because Indians control firms? Working-class Indians are getting fukked whether their boss, lender, etc. are Indian or European.

The article was thin on solutions, but I was addressing your points separately. The article mostly presented the facts of the situation. You can think that reverse redlining is "dumb as fuk," but it is what it is, it was/is a reality, and it played a role in the housing meltdown a few years back. You don't know about how these firms were engaging in predatory lending and had no problem with lending to people they knew probably wouldn't have the means to pay things back because the firms turned the debts into financial products, sold them, and by selling them, passed the risk around like a game of hot potato?

On a side note, we do need more co-ops and credit unions in the community, and this is a way to build community power in these working-class communities.

 

[theworldismine13]

You missed the point because you think that simply having Afrikans staffing these financial institutions would solve the problem. You also mentioned education and financial literacy. I agree that those are important, but those things alone cannot save everyone from these predatory practices.

My point is that having Afrikan-owned banks won't, by virtue of being Afrikan-owned, change this

first of all, what the fuk is an Afrikan? but anyways

i agree that a putting in black staff wont make any difference if the company is white owned

i dont agree that if banks and credit unions were black owned it wouldn't make any difference

im not missing your point, i dont agree with your point

These are incentives and imperatives created by the economic system, not the color of the people's skins at these firms.

Do you think that in India, for example, there is no exploitation (disregard those who work for foreign corporations for a moment) because Indians control firms? Working-class Indians are getting fukked whether their boss, lender, etc. are Indian or European.

The article was thin on solutions, but I was addressing your points separately. The article mostly presented the facts of the situation. You can think that reverse redlining is "dumb as fuk," but it is what it is, it was/is a reality, and it played a role in the housing meltdown a few years back. You don't know about how these firms were engaging in predatory lending and had no problem with lending to people they knew probably wouldn't have the means to pay things back because the firms turned the debts into financial products, sold them, and by selling them, passed the risk around like a game of hot potato?

On a side note, we do need more co-ops and credit unions in the community, and this is a way to build community power in these working-class communities.

i read what you quoted, but what you quoted said nothing about community solutions and communities solving their own problems

 

[JahFocus CS]

first of all, what the fuk is an Afrikan? but anyways

i agree that a putting in black staff wont make any difference if the company is white owned

i dont agree that if banks and credit unions were black owned it wouldn't make any difference

im not missing your point, i dont agree with your point

i read what you quoted, but what you quoted said nothing about community solutions and communities solving their own problems

In many Afrikan languages, "Africa" is spelled with a "k."

The firm can be Black-owned, that is what I meant. By "staffed," I'm saying, you take the company as an entity itself, give it Black owners, management, and staff, the outcomes won't be any different because of the economic logic, incentives, and imperatives of the system. You say you disagree, but you present no evidence or reasoning to the contrary. How and why would a Black analogue of J.P. Morgan operate differently?

I said in my previous post that the article was thin on solutions, and that I was taking up your points myself and not so much making arguments from the article. What I quoted in my previous post was to support the points in my paragraph directly above this (the economic logic, incentives, and imperatives of the system, which would prevent a Black analogue of J.P. Morgan from acting in significantly different ways).

 

[theworldismine13]

In many Afrikan languages, "Africa" is spelled with a "k."

The firm can be Black-owned, that is what I meant. By "staffed," I'm saying, you take the company as an entity itself, give it Black owners, management, and staff, the outcomes won't be any different because of the economic logic, incentives, and imperatives of the system. You say you disagree, but you present no evidence or reasoning to the contrary. How and why would a Black analogue of J.P. Morgan operate differently?

I said in my previous post that the article was thin on solutions, and that I was taking up your points myself and not so much making arguments from the article. What I quoted in my previous post was to support the points in my paragraph directly above this (the economic logic, incentives, and imperatives of the system, which would prevent a Black analogue of J.P. Morgan from acting in significantly different ways).

what "Afrikan" languages spell it with a k?

i disagree because i think the real problem as far as black people are concerned is ownership and not enough capitalism, i dont believe the "reverse redlining" is the problem

the solution is first address financial illiteracy, address education and address ownership of banks and other financial institutions

the article isnt thin on solutions, the article states very clearly that the solution is socialism and elimination of the free market, nowhere in the article does it offer local solutions, its just socialist propoganda

 

[Madvillain]

How and why would a Black analogue of J.P. Morgan operate differently?

I don't wanna move this too far from redlining, but it's funny; I'd actually read up on how Garvey, Jesse Jackson, Booker T. Washington and Farrakhan (prob our most high profile capitalist leaders) felt about/acted upon worker's rights/unionism vs. elitism to get a better point of what you're saying; I agree.

 

[DEAD7]

 

[Madvillain]

individual freedom and education

Neither are necessarily antithetical to Marx or a democratic, libertarian (Marxism) socialism (which itself is a broad term)

 

[theworldismine13]

Neither are necessarily antithetical to Marx or a democratic, libertarian (Marxism) socialism (which itself is a broad term)

and? i believe in the free market point being im against anything that involves "deprivatization and decommodification of housing"

 

[Madvillain]

and?

Breh, this entire thread is you being rather ignorant of socialism but throwing shade regardless just because. Meaning you haven't really formed a great argument as to why you're against what the writer says in her last sentence.