The War on Poverty at 50

acri1

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Reduce regulation, and rely on charity more, thats it. Regulation is the tool of corporations, not the consumer.

..and I dont get why liberals are so anti charity...:ld:

It's not being "anti-charity, it's being realistic. Private charity is simply insufficient to deal with the issue of poverty. And that's not even a "liberal" opinion - it's just a mathematical fact.

Private charity no match for federal poverty aid, experts say

For years it’s been asserted that charity can replace the dollars spent by the federal government on hunger programs. But for the steady-state emergency that is hunger in America, no amount of charitable giving has been enough, say people doing the numbers.

By Alfred Lubrano

The Philadelphia Inquirer

PHILADELPHIA — When it comes to poverty, myths abound.

Americans believe that legions of folks are on welfare, for example, when only 10 percent of the poor receive cash assistance.

Some politicians claim that a large percentage of food-stamp recipients cheat to reap benefits, though fraud levels are quite low.

And for years, it’s been asserted that charity can replace the dollars spent by the federal government on hunger programs — despite numbers that show it’s not true.

At the same time that poverty and hunger are rising, the U.S. House of Representatives in March passed a proposed budget that would, if ratified, cut food-stamp benefits by around 18 percent ($135 billion over 10 years), which would end assistance to millions of people. It would also change the way food stamps are distributed, resulting in fewer benefits for millions more Americans.

Charity can fill in any holes that develop, say tea-party activists as well as Republican politicians like Wisconsin U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, the budget’s author.

But charity experts say that’s a mathematical impossibility.

“There’s a myth of charity out there,” said Elizabeth Boris, director of the Center on Nonprofits and Philanthropy at the Urban Institute, which researches the impact of philanthropy. “Anyone who thinks that private charity will make up for lowered government budgets is whistling Dixie.”

Americans like to think of themselves as bighearted and eager to help those less fortunate. Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy, the crises after the explosions in Texas and Boston — these disasters brought out the best in people, who didn’t hesitate to give.

But for the steady-state emergency that is hunger in America, no amount of charitable giving has been enough, experts say.

“Americans are very generous, but people don’t appreciate the scope of poverty in the United States,” said Kathy Saile, director of the office of domestic social development for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. “The amount of hunger reduction by the federal government dwarfs what charities in the faith community are doing.”

Overall, the U.S. government spends $105 billion annually on food programs to help the hungry, federal figures show.

The bulk of that is the nearly $80 billion for food stamps (now called the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP). The balance goes to the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC); school breakfast and lunch programs; and other initiatives.

Feeding America, the largest food charity in the United States (and one of the largest charities overall), moves $5 billion of food and funding to hungry people each year. But even that is a drop in the bucket compared with SNAP.

“No charity in the history of the planet could come up with the $80 billion for SNAP,” said Ross Fraser, director of media relations for Feeding America. “It doesn’t make sense to talk about charity alone helping the hungry. It’d be like saying, why not let the military rely on charitable contributions.”


Republicans such as U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, U.S. Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, and Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation, as well as commentators like Pat Buchanan, have expressed preference for charity over government to solve societal ills such as hunger. Many say private giving, not government aid, has kept America going through the decades.

But, said University of Pennsylvania history professor Michael Katz, an expert on the history of poverty, “That’s never been true. The notion that private charities can pick up the burden is a canard.”

The total of U.S. philanthropy is currently $300 billion, according to Katherina Rosqueta, founding executive director of the Center for High Impact Philanthropy at Penn, a nonprofit focused on improving the impact of charity.

The amount represents all the money that people give away, most of it to churches and other religious institutions — 32 percent, or nearly $96 billion. A good deal of the rest goes to hospitals, universities and cultural institutions such as museums, noted Daniel Borochoff, president of CharityWatch, an organization that helps donors make more informed charitable-giving decisions.

Just a small portion of those dollars goes to help the poor, noted Borochoff. “You have to think of charities as icing on the cake,” he said. “They do not do the heavy lifting.”

Many activists say that if taxes are reduced, private giving will automatically increase. But history shows that’s incorrect.

For each of the last 40 years, Americans have given away the same proportion of money without change: roughly 2 percent of GDP. Even after the Bush tax cuts in the early part of the century, the rate of giving didn’t rise, experts say.

As it happens, 69 percent of Americans believe the federal government should have a major role in providing food to low-income families, according to a 2012 poll by Hart Research Associates, which measures attitudes toward the poor.

Beyond that, a large percentage of nonprofit money that’s given to charity actually comes from the federal government, which is a huge contributor to charities such as Feeding America, said Boris, of the Urban Institute.

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2021007008_charitymythsxml.html



As far as deregulation, I'm entirely unconvinced that it would help anybody other than people who are already rich.
 

ghostwriterx

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Reduce regulation, and rely on charity more, thats it. Regulation is the tool of corporations, not the consumer.

..and I dont get why liberals are so anti charity...:ld:

Liberals aren't anti-charity, they just acknowledge that charity alone would not be effective in reducing poverty.
 

DEAD7

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It's not being "anti-charity, it's being realistic. Private charity is simply insufficient to deal with the issue of poverty. And that's not even a "liberal" opinion - it's just a mathematical fact.


Liberals aren't anti-charity, they just acknowledge that charity alone would not be effective in reducing poverty.

and why is that? People are naturally altruistic no?

I think charity is greatly underestimated :manny: based solely on what private citizens donate to charity now, I dont see where this idea comes from...
http://www.nptrust.org/philanthropic-resources/charitable-giving-statistics




    • 88% of households give to charity.1
    • The average annual household contribution is $2,213 while the median is $870.1
    • Americans gave $298.3 billion in 2011. This reflects a 3.9% increase from 2010.2
    • Corporate giving held steady in 2011 at $14.55 billion.2
    • Foundation giving increased in 2011 to $41.67 billion--a 1.8% increase from 2010.4
    • In 2011, the largest source of charitable giving came from individuals at $217.79 billion, or 73% of total giving; followed by foundations ($41.67 billion/14%), bequests ($24.41 billion/8%), and corporations ($14.55 billion/5%).2
The small percentage of people abusing the system would receive little to no charity though, and I personally thinks thats a good thing.


As far as deregulation, I'm entirely unconvinced that it would help anybody other than people who are already rich.
And we know without a doubt that regulation has helped only the rich... :usure:
 

Brown_Pride

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Once we acknowledge that it is impossible to remove "greedy b*stards" from the equation, we will begin to see how pointless the war is. Add that to the fact that no society has ever existed without a lower impoverished* class, and the entire war becomes silly and a waste of resources.
once we acknoledge that the problem IS greedy b*stards perhaps we can do something about it. ya ol half glass empty s.o.b.

If you accept that things are what they are then they will be what they have always been.
 

acri1

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and why is that? People are naturally altruistic no?

I think charity is greatly underestimated :manny: based solely on what private citizens donate to charity now, I dont see where this idea comes from...
http://www.nptrust.org/philanthropic-resources/charitable-giving-statistics




    • 88% of households give to charity.1
    • The average annual household contribution is $2,213 while the median is $870.1
    • Americans gave $298.3 billion in 2011. This reflects a 3.9% increase from 2010.2
    • Corporate giving held steady in 2011 at $14.55 billion.2
    • Foundation giving increased in 2011 to $41.67 billion--a 1.8% increase from 2010.4
    • In 2011, the largest source of charitable giving came from individuals at $217.79 billion, or 73% of total giving; followed by foundations ($41.67 billion/14%), bequests ($24.41 billion/8%), and corporations ($14.55 billion/5%).2
The small percentage of people abusing the system would receive little to no charity though, and I personally thinks thats a good thing.



And we know without a doubt that regulation has helped only the rich... :usure:

You're arguing against math. :beli:

Clearly you didn't read the article I posted explaining this. It's simply not possible for private charity to make up for what the government does. The small percentage of people who abuse the system are not the issue here, that's a diversionary tactic used to foster resentment towards the poor.

And as far as regulation only helping the rich, I'm gonna need some proof of that...:usure:

Without regulation we'd still have child labor and shyt.
 

DEAD7

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once we acknoledge that the problem IS greedy b*stards perhaps we can do something about it. ya ol half glass empty s.o.b.

If you accept that things are what they are then they will be what they have always been.
:patrice: Unless we plan on removing the human component, i dont see the greed going anywhere :manny: Thus we shouldnt give these people the power to pick winners/loser, and direct the flow of money uncontested.
 

DEAD7

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You're arguing against math. :beli:

Clearly you didn't read the article I posted explaining this. It's simply not possible for private charity to make up for what the government does. The small percentage of people who abuse the system are not the issue here, that's a diversionary tactic used to foster resentment towards the poor.

And as far as regulation only helping the rich, I'm gonna need some proof of that...:usure:

Without regulation we'd still have child labor and shyt.
I looked at it, but you cant conclude anything based off of the numbers while they both exist. Hence why I said charity is underestimated, not it can cover it. If govt. aid was canned, i don't think an increase in charity is far fetched...

keep in mind, I dont think the number of people receiving aid, are all truly in need of it.:ehh:
 

DEAD7

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"Still, that rate is considerably lower than two important benchmarks. First, thanks to a recent study by poverty scholars from Columbia University (see chart and source below), we can track this improved metric back to the latter 1960s. In 1967, about 26 percent were poor compared to 16 percent in 2012. (a reduction of 38%)

Second — and this benchmark really gets to the question of the effectiveness of anti-poverty policies — absent those policies, the 2012 rate would be 29 percent, meaning that the value of food stamps, unemployment benefits, the earned-income tax credit, housing subsidies and more lifted 13 percent of the population — 40 million people — out of poverty that year."

Seriously, did you read the op?
I did but found it to be written with some bias.The antipoverty effectiveness of these programs is typically measured by counting the number of people with pretransfer incomes below the poverty line(something also in contention) whose incomes are raised above the poverty line by income transfers. :ehh:


Available income, ebbs and flows with the state of the economy and with demographic shifts, especially immigration and the growth of single-parent families all play a part in these statistics, which is why I tend to ignore most "statistical" evidence presente dlike this or take them with a grain a salt. hey are rarely accurate reflections of whats really going on.
By failing to consider these other factors and ignoring the incentive effects these programs have on recipients, the op analysis overstates the success of safety-net programs. :whoa: IMHO
 

Brown_Pride

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:patrice: Unless we plan on removing the human component, i dont see the greed going anywhere :manny: Thus we shouldnt give these people the power to pick winners/loser, and direct the flow of money uncontested.
you're arguing for total chaos. If you expect something then you can plan for something. If we know greed is to be expected then proper planning would have to account for that; completely saying fuk it is the easy way out.
 

DEAD7

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you're arguing for total chaos. If you expect something then you can plan for something. If we know greed is to be expected then proper planning would have to account for that; completely saying fuk it is the easy way out.
No, i'm accepting the human condition, and advocating a system that would restrict each individuals destructive power, whilst still being functional.
Regulations are the tools of corporations, not of the consumers. Sooner or later this truth will have to be accepted.
 

Brown_Pride

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No, i'm accepting the human condition, and advocating a system that would restrict each individuals destructive power, whilst still being functional.
Regulations are the tools of corporations, not of the consumers. Sooner or later this truth will have to be accepted.
again there is what is and what should be.
I'd tend to agree regulations are RIGHT NOW the tools of corporations.
Regulations should be (and i'd argue were supposed to be) the tools of the people/government.

Sadly both regulation and the government are now tools of corporations.

The human condition and tendancy towards fukkery will always be, IMHO any system not taking into account human behavior is fuked.
 

Blackking

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I thought this was going to be about old poor people.


Most of the homeless and in poverty people I see... look about 50. Most crack heads I see are like 40 or 50 looking...
 

Blackking

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poverty didn't win, the powers that be won.

Here's teh question you really gotta ask yourself. If we really wanted to as a county end things like poverty and shyt education could we? The answer I think is yes. Then why haven't we?

When you answer that question you'll see that poverty didn't win shyt. Greedy b*stards did, and yet they still somehow make poverty a winner...
the people are to blame... not corps, gov, etc. ..

That's just like my ex claiming I kept slepting with her pass the time that we broke up, missing with her emotions. Well she kept letting me so, even if I was aware.... she's at fault. I'm not gonna not fukk if that's the option. 'They' aren't gonna not fukk if that's the option..

lack of action on our part.
 
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