The US saw 930,160 abortions in 2020, reversing a 30-year decline

[Professor Emeritus]

you're getting into a lot of points of subjectivity...many of which are framed by a religious view. i do think science provides a clear answer as to when it's murder and that's when it has built all the systems it needs to survive outside the womb (point of viability), which with the advances we've made in technology that's ~24 weeks and why most reasonable states have a 22 week cutoff.

lol - there's nothing "scientific" about using point of viability to call abortion murder. The fetus has the exact same individuality, brain, development, feelings, etc. at 24 weeks right now as a 24-week-old fetus had 40 years ago....but just because technology has advanced, it's murder now and it wasn't murder then? If I'm in a big US city and I want to kill a 25-week-old fetus, you'd say it's murder. But if I move somewhere with poor medical technology where it would have no chance of being viable, can I kill it there since by your definition it's not murder anymore?

Any ideology that attempts to define a life by factors that have absolutely nothing to do with that actual life is suspect off the top.

but for me it is a cut and dry issue, you either believe a woman has the right to choose or she doesn't. you can feel free to judge the decision, think it's disgusting, disagree with it or call it whatever you want, but it's a yes or no on whether she has that choice. and i say this as someone who is personally against abortion - i haven't had one and have encouraged that option for my friends

It's obviously not cut-and-dried, since you feel states should have a 22-week cutoff and that killing a late-term fetus is murder, while other abortion rights activists feel there should be full choice up until the moment of delivery. They would say to you that you've violated the "either the woman has the right to choose or she doesn't" dividing line.


But regardless, we weren't even discussing the right to abortion. We were discussing how we talk about it. You think aborting a 24-week-old fetus is murder, so it seems like you should be favorable to the idea that aborting a somewhat younger fetus is still disturbing, even if you don't want to make it illegal.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

lol - there's nothing "scientific" about using point of viability to call abortion murder. The fetus has the exact same individuality, brain, development, feelings, etc. at 24 weeks right now as a 24-week-old fetus had 40 years ago....but just because technology has advanced, it's murder now and it wasn't murder then? If I'm in a big US city and I want to kill a 25-week-old fetus, you'd say it's murder. But if I move somewhere with poor medical technology where it would have no chance of being viable, can I kill it there since by your definition it's not murder anymore?

Any ideology that attempts to define a life by factors that have absolutely nothing to do with that actual life is suspect off the top.







It's obviously not cut-and-dried, since you feel states should have a 22-week cutoff and that killing a late-term fetus is murder, while other abortion rights activists feel there should be full choice up until the moment of delivery. They would say to you that you've violated the "either the woman has the right to choose or she doesn't" dividing line.


But regardless, we weren't even discussing the right to abortion. We were discussing how we talk about it. You think aborting a 24-week-old fetus is murder, so it seems like you should be favorable to the idea that aborting a somewhat younger fetus is still disturbing, even if you don't want to make it illegal.

You’re so off base in your first reply reply…like what are you talking about? Given I feel point of viability is when it becomes murder, I’d feel the same about someone in a remote village killing a 25 week baby for non medical reasons as I do someone in NYC doing it…even knowing that villager likely has no way to birth the child early in a high level NICU

Anyway, how we talk about it is subjective. A fetus has an amazing number of developmental milestones early on and I dileneate it as such. I don’t think abortion should be a light decision but no, I’m not going to be disturbed by an 8 week fetus being aborted, I may feel mixed about a 16 week fetus, and I’d think it’s terrible at 24 weeks. You seem to feel one way about it at any point, that’s fine, but don’t try to box me into that.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You’re so off base in your first reply reply…like what are you talking about? Given I feel point of viability is when it becomes murder, I’d feel the same about someone in a remote village killing a 25 week baby for non medical reasons as I do someone in NYC doing it…even knowing that villager likely has no way to birth the child early in a high level NICU

What don't you understand about what I'm talking about? Have you ever read a book in medical ethics or taken a course in philosophical ethics? This is by far the most commonly stated issue with pegging abortion at vitality - it is dependent on the state of technology and unconnected to the victim's own nature.

If your cutoff line is vitality, I'm confused what your position is. If it was okay for someone in the past to kill their 25-week infant because it wasn't viable yet with the tech back then, then why is it wrong for a villager who doesn't have the tech to do it? Why should the state of technology in a different part of the world determine the ethics of abortion for them?

Anyway, how we talk about it is subjective. A fetus has an amazing number of developmental milestones early on and I dileneate it as such. I don’t think abortion should be a light decision but no, I’m not going to be disturbed by an 8 week fetus being aborted, I may feel mixed about a 16 week fetus, and I’d think it’s terrible at 24 weeks. You seem to feel one way about it at any point, that’s fine, but don’t try to box me into that.

It sounds like our positions aren't that far apart, which is what makes it odd to me that you started off the conversation by saying full-stop that abortion wasn't disgusting and "either you believe in the right to choose or you don't".

 

[Voice of Reason]

I support more black people

 

[Voice of Reason]

What don't you understand about what I'm talking about? Have you ever read a book in medical ethics or taken a course in philosophical ethics? This is by far the most commonly stated issue with pegging abortion at vitality - it is dependent on the state of technology and unconnected to the victim's own nature.

If your cutoff line is vitality, I'm confused what your position is. If it was okay for someone in the past to kill their 25-week infant because it wasn't viable yet with the tech back then, then why is it wrong for a villager who doesn't have the tech to do it? Why should the state of technology in a different part of the world determine the ethics of abortion for them?







It sounds like our positions aren't that far apart, which is what makes it odd to me that you started off the conversation by saying full-stop that abortion wasn't disgusting and "either you believe in the right to choose or you don't".

Yeah liberals are not honest with the messaging on this issue. Plus, Black liberals especially don't want to acknowledge the negative side effect on our population. But I agree with you, even though I think abortion should be legal I still can't agree with the notion that it is just "a clump of cells".

And I think black people have way too many abortions to our detriment.

Plus I think Liberal whites falsely push abortion as the means for upwardly mobility for Black people.

Having said all of that I think it still should be legal.

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

Edit.... bizarre opinion

 

[OperationNumbNutts]

If men truly want to fix the problem they'd get vasectomies not prevent women from getting abortions. Actions have consequences. Both parties need to accept accountability.

1. Step away from the keyboard. 2. Learn yoga to give yourself flexibility. 3. Kick yourself in the nuts.

 

[DEAD7]

1. Step away from the keyboard. 2. Learn yoga to give yourself flexibility. 3. Kick yourself in the nuts.

 

[Geek Nasty]

So?

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

I fully support abortions.

TLR is a prime example of why we need them

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Free vasectomies for men

I got mine

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

Meanwhile on TLR thread they’re saying 34 thousand womens deaths per year mean nothing. TLR should be aborted

 

[Fukwatutalkinwatisaylaw]

I was with a girl and we were about to do the abortion then the nurse came in and showed a video and at that moment I knew I wasn't a murderer..I can't do it...she said we'll give u a pill and you'll shyt the baby out and you might see his limbs or u can lay on ur back and I'll suck it out wit a vacuum that'll chop it up in small pieces

 

[MrLogic]

I don't care what a women does as long isn't mine.

and that is the problem random people telling others what to do about theirs same mfers will kill the kid for playing with a toy gun if its a lil breh

 

[Secure Da Bag]

I support more black people

I support more black people supporting black people.