The SLAVERY in ISLAM dilema

[DoubleClutch]

If God via his prophet endorsed slavery during the 6th century among the Arabs specifically why wouldn’t it be ok TODAY among Arab Muslims and I guess the entire world?

Like why was slavery in the USA even abolished right?

If Muhammad is the greatest example for all times and the mouthpiece of Allah according to Islam, how could any Muslim question the practice (as it appears in this scripture), much less condemn anyone who buys, sells and owns slaves like Muhammad did……In this case two BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES for one NON BLACK

Did I miss it, or was there an update to the Quran or a new revelation given to Muhammad later before his death which calls for an END to slavery effective immediately and declaring it “haram” going forth?

This doesn’t exist in Islam. So it’s a very sensitive topic of debate for Muslims

Very smart move by this white British bloke

The Muslim breh seems to have walked back his stance on the issue, siding against Muhammads actions which is surprising, but does this make god or Allah wrong for allowing slavery to begin with?

Or is the Quran a book limited to a specific people and era in time? This seems to be the only solution from a Muslim POV

But that only leads to an even bigger problem: it contradicts the unchanging nature of God.

If the Quran is the word of God for us right now, how then could Muhammad be the final prophet and what’s written in the Quran be Gods perfected/complete revelation for all mankind?

Seems to me like the Arabs living during the 6,7 even 8th centuries thought the world revolved around them, their people/kingdom and that specific moment in time

Did they think they were continually living in the last days/months/years on earth?

Was Islam even supposed to be a “religion” for the long run?

It doesn’t stand the tests of time

 

[ReasonableMatic]

Muslims, Christians and Jews all enslaved Africans.

Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all colonial religions that are inherently anti-African.
Muslim Arabs enslaved & castrated Africans first

And nikkas still don’t see the problem with going from the Christian plantation to the Muslim plantation.

Like the racial dynamic and cultural adoption displayed in this picture of Lil Jon converting alone doesn’t speak a 1000 words

Arabs: We got another one, they never learn

And Black Christians, who descent from Central & West Africa…

Are gonna run in here tryna us Ethiopians who are East Africans that converted in 4th AD, because of a non-Black Christian missionary from Lebanon..

To rationalize Christianity being “Black” and not inherently colonial…

Thirsty for Christianity

Thirsty for lslam

Thirsty for Judaism

ANYTHING but the African Spiritual systems from where we ACTUALLY descent from.. Just like Massa taught

Anything but African indigenous Spirituality from where we actually descent from

LOST NIKKAS

 

[DoubleClutch]

@ReasonableMatic you’re missing on major point:

Jewish and Christian books arent the words of God verbatim for mankind

They aren’t even considered “perfect” scriptures from God (or an Angel) but rather mans words “inspired” by God.

Now you can show me what the PROPHETS of the Old Testament said or did concerning slavery but even they weren’t perfect people.

Jesus was the only “perfect” person or voice we have contributing to the Bible.

Jesus didn’t own slaves and his teachings condemn slavery as do the 10 commandments for any Christian with common sense

You can point to the history of bad people who called themselves Christians but show me what fault you have in Jesus.

And most importantly this thread is about slavery in ISLAM and the Arab Muslim world. This is much different than any other religion or culture.

Just focus on them. Why deflect to others?

 

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

Just come out with it the religon or movement is clearly outdated thus chattel Slavery practise was common and part of society, Prophet Mo urged Muslims to free slaves accordingly.
Islam practised in 7tj century clearly has no room to fit in part of modern times whether in China, Thailand or Brasil
Facts.
Religon by man has ran its course..

 

[Fiji Water]

Man was made weak, per the Quran. Slavery being okay is kind of a weak argument. It was permissable, had rules, and was "forgivable" by God. Many instances of repentance require or allow freeing a slave.

But the Quran also states we as humans should do better or our best whenever we can, hence abolishing slavery.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Man was made weak, per the Quran. Slavery being okay is kind of a weak argument. It was permissable, had rules, and was "forgivable" by God. Many instances of repentance require or allow freeing a slave.

But the Quran also states we as humans should do better or our best whenever we can, hence abolishing slavery.

Trying to “blame mankind” and not point the finger at “ALLAH” or the word of of Allah the Quran is a weak argument

It’s doesn’t matter what the Quran says or hadiths because obviously it’s written by men trying to protect their religion, society and power structure at the time.

It ONLY matters what ALLAH endorsed as a standard for ALL TIME via his “prophet”. When you look a the life of Muhammad the question is if it’s right or wrong that he bought/owned/sold and raped slaves and commanded his followers to do it all in the name of ALLAH

Then you ask if this is line with the teachings of Jesus, the Bible and Gods commandments.

Like I said in the OP, if slavery is “permissible” by Allah why did Christians lead the charge for its abolition here in USA and around the world?

Why is slavery still a major issue today in the Middle East and Muslim countries more than anywhere else.

If you’re black and you make excuses for slavery and anti black racism in the Quran and in Arab culture of today because it’s part of your religion then you’re part the problem

 

[Fiji Water]

Trying to “blame mankind” and not point the finger at “ALLAH” or the word of of Allah the Quran is a weak argument

It’s doesn’t matter what the Quran says or hadiths because obviously it’s written by men trying to protect their religion, society and power structure at the time.

It ONLY matters what ALLAH endorsed as a standard for ALL TIME via his “prophet”. When you look a the life of Muhammad the question is if it’s right or wrong that he bought/owned/sold and raped slaves and commanded his followers to do it all in the name of ALLAH

Then you ask if this is line with the teachings of Jesus, the Bible and Gods commandments.

Like I said in the OP, if slavery is “permissible” by Allah why did Christians lead the charge for its abolition here in USA and around the world?

Why is slavery still a major issue today in the Middle East and Muslim countries more than anywhere else.

If you’re black and you make excuses for slavery and anti black racism in the Quran and in Arab culture of today because it’s part of your religion then you’re part the problem

Christians didn't lead the charge for it's abolition, notwithstanding their even adoption of the idea.

Slaves of any sort must lead the charge for the abolition of slavery and always will.

And if God isn't real, then his perceived prescription for "all time" as you put it, is naught but human weakness and error in an existential sense. It has nothing to do with God.

Muhammad, peace to him and all messengers, is but a messenger, per repeated aya in the Quran.

Should I point the finger at the clock for all the time I might waste?

Make your point without dismantling mine, please. I simply answered your question to the best of my knowledge to contribute. I have no knowledge or affinity to convert. I just said what I've seen.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Christians didn't lead the charge for it's abolition, notwithstanding their even adoption of the idea.

Slaves of any sort must lead the charge for the abolition of slavery and always will.

And if God isn't real, then his perceived prescription for "all time" as you put it, is naught but human weakness and error in an existential sense. It has nothing to do with God.

Muhammad, peace to him and all messengers, is but a messenger, per repeated aya in the Quran.

Should I point the finger at the clock for all the time I might waste?

Make your point without dismantling mine, please. I simply answered your question to the best of my knowledge to contribute. I have no knowledge or affinity to convert. I just said what I've seen.

Are you even African American? Go review the history of this country. I’m assuming you live in USA

You’re not going to convince me or any black person slavery is ok. Not in slavery in USA, the Caribbean, South America, Arabia or anywhere else black Africans were bought, sold, owned and treated less than human.

You already lose when you try to defend Muhammad. The Quran, Hadith, etc…shows him to be a horrible person

And this has nothing to do with religion. This is just historical facts. It’s not a Christianity vs Islam debate

This is Islam condemning itself

 

[Fiji Water]

Are you even African American? Go review the history of this country. I’m assuming you live in USA

You’re not going to convince me or any black person slavery is ok. Not in slavery in USA, the Caribbean, South America, Arabia or anywhere else black Africans were bought, sold, owned and treated less than human.

You already lose when you try to defend Muhammad. The Quran, Hadith, etc…shows him to be a horrible person

And this has nothing to do with religion. This is just historical facts. It’s not a Christianity vs Islam debate

This is Islam condemning itself

never said slavery was okay. I thought this was a no bs type forum but apparently not. How is there a dilemma if one automatically loses? Have a nice day.

 

[DoubleClutch]

never said slavery was okay. I thought this was a no bs type forum but apparently not. How is there a dilemma if one automatically loses? Have a nice day.

I can read between the lines. You need to tap dance around the topic Because if you take the Quran as it is, it condemns itself and you now have to reconcile what’s in that BOOK you consider the word of God and what that MAN who you consider a prophet send by GOD did with what you KNOW is right and wrong in the eyes of the TRUE God teachings of Jesus before Islam even began.

And if you want to get deeper, maybe it’s you Muslims over centuries who have twisted, corrupted and rewritten the contents of the Quran to justify what went on 1600 years ago

The real dilemma is trusting the Quran itself as the infallible “word of God”. Go learn more about the history of early Islam and the pagan “arab” people as well as the Jewish, Christians, other near east religions/cultures of the time and revisit the Quran.

PM if you really want info since you think this is a “BS forum”.

 

[Fiji Water]

I can read between the lines. You need to tap dance around the topic Because if you take the Quran as it is, it condemns itself and you now have to reconcile what’s in that BOOK you consider the word of God and what that MAN who you consider a prophet send by GOD did with what you KNOW is right and wrong in the eyes of the TRUE God teachings of Jesus before Islam even began.

And if you want to get deeper, maybe it’s you Muslims over centuries who have twisted, corrupted and rewritten the contents of the Quran to justify what went on 1600 years ago

The real dilemma is trusting the Quran itself as the infallible “word of God”. Go learn more about the history of early Islam and the pagan “arab” people as well as the Jewish, Christians, other near east religions/cultures of the time and revisit the Quran.

PM if you really want info since you think this is a “BS forum”.

I never said the forum is BS. Your assumption of my race, amount of knowledge of the subject, and goal post moving don't sway me to continue conversation with you on the topic.

I've already studied a fair amount of everything you've mentioned. I see no benefit in a debate that insults my intelligence. Interesting topic, though.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I never said the forum is BS. Your assumption of my race, amount of knowledge of the subject, and goal post moving don't sway me to continue conversation with you on the topic.

I've already studied a fair amount of everything you've mentioned. I see no benefit in a debate that insults my intelligence. Interesting topic, though.

Go ahead and run. Fell free to lurk the thread. Only a fool thinks he knows it all. That’s why I’m always open to debate to challenge myself to learn more and get different perspectives from guys like @MMS and @Koichos

But logic is always undefeated. The truth is out there and it’s simple

Although I’ll admit the origins of Islam and the Quran are complex

 

[Sccit]

DAMN

 

[MMS]

Go ahead and run. Fell free to lurk the thread. Only a fool thinks he knows it all. That’s why I’m always open to debate to challenge myself to learn more and get different perspectives from guys like @MMS and @Koichos

But logic is always undefeated. The truth is out there and it’s simple

Although I’ll admit the origins of Islam and the Quran are complex

@Marks

Khidr - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the Quran 18:65–82, Moses meets the Servant of God, referred to in the Quran as "one of our slaves whom We had granted mercy from Us and whom We had taught knowledge from Ourselves"

Exodus 8:1-2

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, Go unto Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

2 And if thou refuse to let them go, behold, I will smite all thy borders with frogs:

Heqet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the Osiris myth, it was Heqet who breathed life into the new body of Horus at birth, as she was a goddess of the last moments of birth. As the birth of Horus became more intimately associated with the resurrection of Osiris, so Heqet's role became one more closely associated with resurrection. Eventually, this association led to her amulets gaining the phrase I am the resurrection in the Christian era along with cross and lamb symbolism.[7]

 

[DoubleClutch]

@Marks

Khidr - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Exodus 8:1-2

Heqet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

“Heqet”

It has been proposed that her name is the origin of the name of Hecate, the Greek goddess of witchcraft.

Hecate (Greek: Ἑκάτη, Hekátē) is the goddess of magic, crossroads, witchcraft, sorcery, ghosts and necromancy in ancient Greek religion and myth.

Isis was queen of the Gods, the Great Lady, and also Mistress of Words of Power, Goddess of Spells and Weaver of Spells, and Hecate is nothing more than a title of Isis personified.


Might be off topic, but at what point would you say ancient Egyptians religion was “corrupted”?


Also it’s interesting how goddess figures like heqet contrast someone like Mary