Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.

[reservoirdogs]

Getting KO'd by a construction worker, in 1 round, in front of your adopted hometown fans wipes it all away for me breh.


Fonfara is going to have to actually clearly beat someone, like B Hop did Murat, if we're going to say Kovalev over Hopkins is funny in the light....but Stevenson over Fonfara isn't.

Different styles though
Fonfara was a lot more open from the beginning that's why he got KOed in the first round and Hopkins only later...

I think Fonfara would have sent this version of Hopkin in the bushes too

Saying that Fonfara is better than Pascal also isn't far from reality imo if you look at what Pascal did after the first Kovalev fight. He arguably lost to Yunieski Gonzalez who later lost to Shabransky who just got KOd by Barrera... If we are already at triangle theories

I'd put these six guys like that now

Pascal, Yunieski, Shabranskyy (all around the same level, close fights)<Fonfara (would beat these guys) < Joes Smith and Barrera (would beat the other 4)

Where Gvozdyk would rank among these though

 

[reservoirdogs]

at the time of KOvalev's first Pascal fight, Pascal definitely counted as a better win than Fonfara though I admit that and Hopkins too, cause Fonfara was kinda noname then. But if we look at what happened since it puts the things in a different light or I rather say they can be approached differently.

 

[Newzz]

Different styles though
Fonfara was a lot more open from the beginning that's why he got KOed in the first round and Hopkins only later...

Never should a 51 year old man last 7 rounds longer than a top contender in his prime. It's not like Joe Smith faced a prime Hopkins. He faced a Super Saiyan Washed Up version of Bernard Hopkins and it still took him longer (and many more flush shots) to get Hopkins out of there than it took him to get Fonfara out of there in his prime.

I think Fonfara would have sent this version of Hopkin in the bushes too

He should....he's 22 years younger than Hopkins.

Saying that Fonfara is better than Pascal also isn't far from reality imo if you look at what Pascal did after the first Kovalev fight.

If they fought today, Im taking Pascal to beat Fonfara............via KO at that.

He arguably lost to Yunieski Gonzalez who later lost to Shabransky who just got KOd by Barrera... If we are already at triangle theories

Not really a relevant triangle theory breh, because it's not including Pascal & Fonfara

I'd put these six guys like that now

Pascal, Yunieski, Shabranskyy (all around the same level, close fights)<Fonfara (would beat these guys) < Joes Smith and Barrera (would beat the other 4)

Where Gvozdyk would rank among these though

Why do yall believe that Pascal loses to Fonfara...that's what im trying to get?



Like, what's the rationale behind saying that Fonfara > Jean Pascal....when Fonfara has lost to worse opponents and Pascal has only lost to the top dogs of the division he was in?

at the time of KOvalev's first Pascal fight, Pascal definitely counted as a better win than Fonfara though I admit that and Hopkins too, cause Fonfara was kinda noname then.

Exactly

But if we look at what happened since it puts the things in a different light or I rather say they can be approached differently.

But we could do that for every fighter.


Look at Floyd's opponents in the 2010s:


Mosley: 3-4-1 after facing Floyd (2 of 8 opponents were ranked....0-2 vs ranked opponents)
Ortiz: 2-3 after facing Floyd (No opponent ranked)
Cotto: 3-2 after facing Floyd (3 of 5 opponents were ranked...1-2 vs ranked opponents)
Guerrero: 2-3 after facing Floyd (2 of 5 opponents were ranked...0-2 vs ranked opponents)
Canelo: 6-0 after facing Floyd (3 of 6 opponents were ranked...3-0 vs ranked opponents)
Maidana: retired after facing Floyd
Pacquiao: retired after facing Floyd...then returned to go 2-0 (both opponents were ranked...2-0 vs ranked opponents)
Berto: 1-0 after facing Floyd (opponent unranked)


So, his opponents haven't really "went on" to do anything either (outside of Canelo/Pacquiao)....but we cant go back and retroactively remove the fact every single one of these guys that faced Floyd were thought to be, at worst, Top 5 in the world at 147/154 when Floyd fought them this decade, just because what happened after they fought. We can only go off of the hype/ranking/resume PRIOR to the bout.



I think @SuikodenII was just talking about something similar to this the other day

I think I give fighters waaaaaaaay too much flack for losing, especially via decision...

I'm starting to change the way I look at fighters who take a loss..... for instance, look at Pascal. If he's as done as I claimed he would not have been able to outclass his opponent this past weekend...

With that said, I wouldn't dare put him in with a killer, but still I need to check myself and re-evaluate how I view fighters on the slope...

 

[ChocolateGiddyUp]

I ain't cool with the whole diminishing a W after the fact...especially months/years later...especially if you cry duck/scary the boogieman gets handled N now here come the "bu bu bu bu buts"

How the guy is seen before the fight is how the W should count.... Ws cannot lose value they can only increase in value (loser continues his career wins belt/big fight)

 

[patscorpio]

I ain't cool with the whole diminishing a W after the fact...especially months/years later...especially if you cry duck/scary the boogieman gets handled N now here come the "bu bu bu bu buts"

How the guy is seen before the fight is how the W should count.... Ws cannot lose value they can only increase in value (loser continues his career wins belt/big fight)

how did you feel about ghost facing danny after getting a gift win against josesito lopez's leftover? because that gift win didnt increase the winner's value

 

[reservoirdogs]

Never should a 51 year old man last 7 rounds longer than a top contender in his prime. It's not like Joe Smith faced a prime Hopkins. He faced a Super Saiyan Washed Up version of Bernard Hopkins and it still took him longer (and many more flush shots) to get Hopkins out of there than it took him to get Fonfara out of there in his prime.



He should....he's 22 years younger than Hopkins.




If they fought today, Im taking Pascal to beat Fonfara............via KO at that.





Not really a relevant triangle theory breh, because it's not including Pascal & Fonfara





Why do yall believe that Pascal loses to Fonfara...that's what im trying to get?



Like, what's the rationale behind saying that Fonfara > Jean Pascal....when Fonfara has lost to worse opponents and Pascal has only lost to the top dogs of the division he was in?




Exactly



But we could do that for every fighter.


Look at Floyd's opponents in the 2010s:


Mosley: 3-4-1 after facing Floyd (2 of 8 opponents were ranked....0-2 vs ranked opponents)
Ortiz: 2-3 after facing Floyd (No opponent ranked)
Cotto: 3-2 after facing Floyd (3 of 5 opponents were ranked...1-2 vs ranked opponents)
Guerrero: 2-3 after facing Floyd (2 of 5 opponents were ranked...0-2 vs ranked opponents)
Canelo: 6-0 after facing Floyd (3 of 6 opponents were ranked...3-0 vs ranked opponents)
Maidana: retired after facing Floyd
Pacquiao: retired after facing Floyd...then returned to go 2-0 (both opponents were ranked...2-0 vs ranked opponents)
Berto: 1-0 after facing Floyd (opponent unranked)


So, his opponents haven't really "went on" to do anything either (outside of Canelo/Pacquiao)....but we cant go back and retroactively remove the fact every single one of these guys that faced Floyd were thought to be, at worst, Top 5 in the world at 147/154 when Floyd fought them this decade, just because what happened after they fought. We can only go off of the hype/ranking/resume PRIOR to the bout.



I think @SuikodenII was just talking about something similar to this the other day

I won't react to all of this now but overall I can say that I agree on most thing even on the last one however a win can increase in value later imo... if the opponent is proven to be a worthy, dangerous contender later but at the time of the fight he was rather no name... And that's what happened with Fonfara

If they would fight now I'd pick Fonfara over Pascal.
Pascal looked bad on his fights after the first Kovalev fight, Fonfara looked quite impressive before he got knocked out. We can't know how that KO affected him though so let's say I'mma watch Fonfara's next fight and then I decide whether to pick him against Pascal or not. If he fights the same as he did before the Smith fight I have no problem picking him though

 

[ComorianKid]

 

[ComorianKid]

Brehs

 

[ChocolateGiddyUp]

how did you feel about ghost facing danny after getting a gift win against josesito lopez's leftover? because that gift win didnt increase the winner's value

Ghost was who he was.... I liked him as Swifts 2nd fight at 147 for a number of reasons... One of which Guerrero's ability to bully legit 147 like he did Berto N Sometimes (last 2-3 rds)

N that "gift" W vs Martinez would increase his value for Thurmans W.... We hardly ever hear anybody at Thurmans Ghost W because what happened with Martinez

Which is exactly my whole point bout discrediting Ws....muhfukkers only try it on guys they don't like N turn a blind eye for they favs

 

[David_TheMan]

Is Kirkland back with Ann Wolfe?

 

[ChocolateGiddyUp]

WBC mandatory drug testing


PED going that WBA route instead

 

[patscorpio]

Is Kirkland back with Ann Wolfe?

yes

 

[David_TheMan]

yes

well we got a live fight, all bets are off

 

[ChocolateGiddyUp]

GGG 8-1 favorite over Jacobs

 

[patscorpio]

GGG 8-1 favorite over Jacobs

when you get dropped by sergio mora it raises doubts on your durability breh