Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.
- Thread starter Jesus Is Lord
- Start date
WhodatWhoadi
Naw
Damn breh thats real as fukk...Not to mention it wasn't uncommon to average 15-30 fights a year in those days...and in most of those fights it was top tier opposition facing off against eachother....but for the "sports science & medicine" advanced boxers of today...a tough, 'grueling' schedule in modern times would be... 4 fights in a year, one with an elite champ/contender, one with a lower level contender and two against fringe contenders/journeymen all at 12 rds max
Jeanette went 49 rds with McVea...then fought two weeks after that (KO1) and fought 3 weeks after that fight in a 20 rd fight...and by the end of the year he fought McVea again in a 30 rd fight
That's like 10 years of modern pro fight experience squeezed into one year.
Floyd's body 'breaking down' after 49 fights using 8/10 oz. gloves in bouts that max out at 12 rds...with countless vacations in between
You can see why so many historians have a hard time rating modern 'greats' up there with guys like Langford, Greb, Gans etc. when you take into account that modern boxers just aren't as physically capable as alot of boxers in the past...there shoud be no dispute that human beings were physically tougher and more durable in those times....because of daily, strenuous activity which was the norm for an avg male in those times...just to get simple everyday activities completed....from youth to adulthood...where today, even our elite athletes are accustomed to spending hrs hunched over infront of video games, TV's, cell-phones & smart devices...and aren't raised in the same type of enviroments that are conducive to molding physical & mental toughness...on the same level as shown in that video...
and makes me ashamed
need to step my game up, feel like trashing my electronics now 
Amare's Right Hook
Southeast World Champion
We are firemen but you have a milk dud head so don't stay in their too long..........
krackdagawd
Inspire.
We are firemen but you have a milk dud head so don't stay in their too long..........
Would be dope as hell if he beat Manny legit
Fireman speech followed by a body shot ko
SuikodenII
Where's Suikoden VI??????
There are plenty of fighters who could do what all time greats Greb, Langford, Armstrong amongst other fighters with exaggerated legends surrounding them.
They choose not to for obvious reasons related to their health, physically and economically.
This arm chair rhetoric of "fighters these days don't want to be great" is a tired, old facade that needs to die. Most of our greats went out dumb, deaf, blind, broke and brain damaged. Sadly, the trend continues.....
God forbid fighters not wanting to follow their route. And no, human beings weren't naturally bigger, stronger, tougher or faster physically in the past.
Fighters choose not to take risks they could never recoup from for the perception of acceptance.
They choose not to for obvious reasons related to their health, physically and economically.
This arm chair rhetoric of "fighters these days don't want to be great" is a tired, old facade that needs to die. Most of our greats went out dumb, deaf, blind, broke and brain damaged. Sadly, the trend continues.....
God forbid fighters not wanting to follow their route. And no, human beings weren't naturally bigger, stronger, tougher or faster physically in the past.
Fighters choose not to take risks they could never recoup from for the perception of acceptance.
llcoolj My Uncle John.... #BLOODLINE#FirstBlackLightHeavyWeightChamp shout out to my whole Lewis family and all my cousins in Oakland.
llcoolj My Great Grandfather. Grandfather and Uncles... #BoxingFamily. #BLOODLINE
SuikodenII
Where's Suikoden VI??????
Modern fighters MAY be bigger & faster...but physically tougher & more durable?
There's practically no argument for that...given the stark contrast in environmental upbringing between modern athletes and those from the late 19th/early 20th century.
A modern world upbringing just isn't conducive for producing the type of physical & mental toughness it took to accomplish what Jeanette, McVea and others from their era did...we actually have substantive proof they were built from a different cloth by doing things in the ring that none of their prodecessors were able to do...saying modern fighters can do what they did is just a theory that has no basis in fact...we have no proof that they can...you can argue skills, speed, athleticism all you want...but physical, mental toughness and durabiity shouldn't be up for dispute.
And Jennette lived until his late 70's with money in the bank and his faculties intact while fighting a old old-school type schedule and rds...he was the exception...but we got modern athletes going broke after earning millions...with the same fukked up health issues/brain damage...while not fighting on nearly as hectic and aderous a schedule and fighting less rds...so what does that say?
The way boxing has been structured for the past 30 years. it doesn't allow fighters to "dare to be great" so it ain't all their fault why they're not able to consistenty take on top tier opposition...but don't expect to put these less achieved, less tested fighters on the same plane as fighters whose era allowed them to accomplish far greater things in the ring.
SuikodenII
Where's Suikoden VI??????
-Life was harder back in the day without modern medicine, science, and technology, no doubt. Genetics play a large part as well.Modern fighters MAY be bigger & faster...but physically tougher & more durable?
There's practically no argument for that...given the stark contrast in environmental upbringing between modern athletes and those from the late 19th/early 20th century.
A modern world upbringing just isn't conducive for producing the type of physical & mental toughness it took to accomplish what Jeanette, McVea and others from their era did...we actually have substantive proof they were built from a different cloth by doing things in the ring that none of their prodecessors were able to do...saying modern fighters can do what they did is just a theory that has no basis in fact...we have no proof that they can...you can argue skills, speed, athleticism all you want...but physical, mental toughness and durabiity shouldn't be up for dispute.
And Jennette lived until his late 70's with money in the bank and his faculties intact while fighting a old old-school type schedule and rds...he was the exception...but we got modern athletes going broke after earning millions...with the same fukked up health issues/brain damage...while not fighting on nearly as hectic and aderous a schedule and fighting less rds...so what does that say?
The way boxing has been structured for the past 30 years. it doesn't allow fighters to "dare to be great" so it ain't all their fault why they're not able to consistenty take on top tier opposition...but don't expect to put these less achieved, less tested fighters on the same plane as fighters whose era allowed them to accomplish far greater things in the ring.
-You don't have proof that they definitely were tougher and more durable. What you have are fighters that now choose not to risk their health from unrecoverable damage with the knowledge of what fighters sacrificed in the past and literally can't legally prove they can go 20 rounds unless they're sparring. I don't believe one era was greater in the physical department. You do. I believe there's outstanding individuals in each era in my opinion, and each era had boxers who were willing to do what was necessary in their respective eras depending on the rules and regulations of their times.
-Is it difficult, and maybe impossible, to compare fighters across generations due to these changes? Sure. Just like the "P4P" ranking, it's all subjective to preference. Skill level and technique (as long as there's tape) however is another story... But from a physicality standpoint, I'd argue that since the rules call for 12, 3 minute rounds, fighters train accordingly. If it was 20, unlimited minute rounds, fighters would train accordingly. Putting one over the other isn't fair unless we're talking about technique and skill level in the ring. Everything else is pretty subjective with most people agreeing that fighters of the old days being absolute warriors who paved the way for boxing to be here in 2016 and beyond.
-Keep in mind, fights back in the 20+ round days were very slow paced and usually contained little action. Think, MMA now when it comes to stand up. These guys have to pace themselves and be very weary of punches with a high risk of KO with those little gloves.
-Modern fighters can't jump into a time machine, nor can they participate in inhumane standards of combat for money and/or fame without breaking the law. There's reasons why rules were changed. More often than not, it was to protect the investment....I mean boxer....so this sport could survive into the future. With that said..... since the boxer's health is really up to the boxer and those close to them, we're sadly going to continue to see guys come in swinging and leave out permanently limping. All time great or not. Hall-of-Fame fighter or not. Most boxers.... most athletes in general, are not the wisest individuals and usually come from harsh surroundings.
...one more thing. There's no such thing as "faculties kept intact" when it comes to high impact sports dealing with the brain. They're all damaged goods, but we only pay attention to the extreme cases with more publicly visible signs.
Fair points across the board. +REP sent
But while we're going on about boxer health...what about the health of these gatekeepers, fringe contenders and journeymen, who are constantly placed in mismatches against fighters they have no business in the ring with...and have to incur knockouts and prolonged beatdowns over & over & over again because top guys don't want to face eachother?
Getting seperated from their senses several times a year isn't good for the health...but nobodys thinking about these guys...we only suddenly become concerned with health when it's a "star" fighter that's asked to take on greater challenges....and really, is it too much of a health rish and "imhumane" to ask guys that only fight 2-3 times a year to fight the next best guy in their division in all or the majority of their fights?
Of course most of the matchmaking is left in the hands of the manager and promoter...and only a handful of boxers in the sport at any given time have the clout to pick and choose what boxers they face...but still...
And if someone is THAT worried about their health...they're in the wrong profession.
And while i do agree the scheduling and amount of rds fought in the late 1890's-early 1900's was over the top...it shows a proven, superior level of toughness & grit (physically & mentally) over boxers who compete under safer modern rules/guidelines and scheduling...doesn't mean they're BETTER neccesarily, just physically and mentally tougher because they were able to endure a more tenacious set of rules/guidelines and scheduling...and were able to persevere.
Does this mean Joe Gans can't get outboxed by Mayweather because he has a superior level of toughness & grit? NO.
But then we turn around and we got Abel Sanchez saying that if Khan wins, they will fight only him at the full 160 limit
How are you gonna talk down on Canelo fighting Khan at 155, but if Khan wins, YOUR trainer is already talking about yall are gonna make Khan fight at 160.?
Golovkin's Coach: No Catch-Weight For Amir Khan - Boxing News
So let me get this straight, for the record again
GGG will fight Floyd Mayweather at 154, but refuses to fight Canelo, Cotto, or Khan at anything but 160.
GGG will fight JCC Jr or Froch at 168, but refuses to fight Ward at anything but 164.
