Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.

[mr. smoke weed]

You right imma start mix it up. It's hard because it hooks don't feel automatic, so it's not comfortable. I'm hoping once I get back working with a coach, it'll change.

I love throwing hooks on the bag tho, my favorite punch.

Breh actually, just search posts in the ring by Yuzo. Look for them in his 'the left hook thread' there's a few gold ones about movement 4-5 pages back, and everything he said in my 'What would you teach an amateur boxer turning pro' thread

 

[Axum Ezana]

 

[mr. smoke weed]

Good lord pascals head is going to be in the fourth row, literally

 

[patscorpio]

“Fighting Words” — Will Their Waits Have Been Worth It?


Posted by: David P. Greisman on 11/16/2015 .
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by David P. Greisman

It’s fitting that this coming weekend’s pay-per-view featuring Miguel Cotto vs. Canelo Alvarez in the main event went from having Andre Ward on the undercard to having Guillermo Rigondeaux in that spot instead.

Both won gold medals in the Olympics (Rigondeaux has two of them). Both were the best in their respective divisions in the pros, Ward at super middleweight and Rigondeaux at junior featherweight. Both were out of the spotlight before signing with Roc Nation Sports. And both have been criticized in the past for their styles of boxing.

That’s not why Ward fought so rarely between 2012 and now, nor is it why he won’t be in the ring on Saturday’s broadcast. He pulled out of this fight due to inflammation and pain in his right knee. Rigondeaux, meanwhile, wasn’t anywhere near as inactive as Ward. While Ward fought once in 2012, once in 2013, not at all in 2014 and once earlier this year, Rigondeaux had fought three times in 2012, twice in 2013, twice in 2014 and not at all so far in 2015.

Rigondeaux hadn’t been seen on American television since the end of 2013, however. And that’s because he, like Ward, was making decisions about his career that were based on pride but otherwise worked to his detriment.

They’re not the only ones. Mikey Garcia was an HBO regular who had won world titles at 126 and 130 before he decided to try to part with his promoter, Top Rank. Garcia hasn’t fought since the beginning of 2014; he’s nearing two years since his last appearance. Demetrius Andrade won a world title at junior middleweight in late 2013, defended it in June 2014, and then spent 16 months out of the ring, a situation that can be attributed in large part to what happened after he turned down a fight with Jermell Charlo.

It remains to be seen whether their pride will prove to be foolish. That would seem the case to most observers. Boxers who don’t fight won’t get paid.

Ward was the lineal champion at 168 pounds and had won the “Super Six” tournament with a victory over Carl Froch. Those triumphs came at a time when the network that had organized the tournament, Showtime, had much smaller audiences for boxing than it does now. Ward-Froch was seen by an average of 580,000 viewers, according to Nielsen ratings estimates. When Ward moved to HBO and faced light heavyweight champion Chad Dawson in September 2012 — Dawson dropped to 168 for that fight — the bout pulled in more than 1.3 million viewers.

Ward topped Dawson and soon signed to defend against former middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik. Yet Ward hurt his right shoulder in training camp. An initial test showed swelling and inflammation. A second exam found a small tear. He underwent surgery. He also was trying to end his contractual relationship with co-promoter Dan Goossen, saying that Goossen wasn’t including other members of Ward’s team in crucial decisions. Ward didn’t want to fight for Goossen under those circumstances.

“I believe I am in the prime of my professional boxing career,” Ward said in a statement sent out in summer 2013. “A boxer has a limited timeframe to earn his livelihood, provide for his family and let alone perform at a championship caliber level. Goossen's actions leave me with the possibility of not stepping in to the ring at all in 2013.”

Goossen won that legal challenge, as well as others that came later. Ward fought Edwin Rodriguez in November 2013, returning after 14 months away, winning and pulling in an audience of a little less than 1.2 million viewers. He didn’t fight again in 2014 as the battles with Goossen continued. Goossen passed away in late September 2014. Roc Nation bought out his contract in January 2015. Ward came back in June, stopping Paul Smith in a broadcast on BET that pulled in an audience of 325,000 viewers.

Ward at least will benefit from his current arrangement — not necessarily the deal with Roc Nation, but rather with HBO. The network likes to boast about having several of the top pound-for-pound fighters in the world on its broadcasts, and Ward is one of them. HBO recently signed Ward to another multi-fight deal, one that makes his move to light heavyweight official and puts him on a course to face Sergey Kovalev, who holds three world titles at 175, toward the end of 2016.

Rigondeaux may not be as fortunate.

Last week, he officially joined Roc Nation and became the third star under its promotional banner, alongside Cotto, Ward and close to a dozen prospects in the stable of a company owned by rapper Jay-Z and with former Golden Boy executive David Itskowitch running the boxing side of things. Yet Rigondeaux hasn’t really been on a level of stardom commensurate with his talent.

He became the lineal champion at 122 when he outpointed Nonito Donaire in April 2013. It was a big win, but HBO’s executives apparently didn’t like the way Rigondeaux fought and weren’t in a rush to have him back on. His then lead co-promoter, Bob Arum of Top Rank, infamously said that HBO’s decision makers would vomit whenever he mentioned Rigondeaux to them.

And that was prior to Rigondeaux’s fight with Joseph Agbeko.

It wasn’t a pleasing outing. Much of that blame belonged to Agbeko, who seemed unwilling to open up on offense given how much of it would miss and how dangerous Rigondeaux’s counter punches could be. Then again, Rigondeaux’s activity — 859 punches in all — included 637 jabs. He had an unwilling foe in fornt of him, but he opted for caution just in case.

No matter the fault, the fans rebelled. The crowd that had come to the small room at Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City to see local boy Glen Tapia fight James Kirkland in the co-feature bout largely left after Tapia lost. A sizable chunk of the television audience changed channels as well. There were 718,000 people watching Kirkland vs. Tapia on average. There was an average of 620,000 people watching the 22-minute segment between Kirkland-Tapia and Rigondeaux-Agbeko. There were 550,000 people watching Rigondeaux-Agbeko on average. There’s no telling what the numbers were by the time that dreary fight ended, though the broadcast’s wrap-up segment did average 376,000 people.

“Bob Arum has failed in many respects to promote my fighter,” said Rigondeaux’s then-manager, Gary Hyde, in an email to me in early 2014. “One of his duties as a promoter is to influence the TV and the public to appreciate Rigo's unique sublime skills. People respect Bob Arum’s opinion and when he knocks his own fighter for beating up every fighter he has faced, the fans listen to him.”

Promoters tend not to push cautious boxers, even when they’re incredibly skilled. Floyd Mayweather’s marketability is the exception.

Rigondeaux’s contract with Top Rank was winding down. Top Rank didn’t want to re-sign him under the previous agreement. HBO wasn’t going to help subsidize that by airing his bouts. Arum felt the minimum paydays called for in the contract were too high. He put Rigondeaux on the undercard of a Nonito Donaire show in Macau, China, in July 2014. Rigondeaux blasted out Sod Kokietgym in less than two minutes. That didn’t convince anyone with Top Rank or HBO to give him another chance.

Then again, we don’t know what Rigondeaux and his team were demanding. It’s clear that whatever they were asking for was too much for any of the major promoters to sign him since then. By 2015, Hyde was publicly blaming Rigondeaux’s lone promoter remaining, Caribe Promotions, a company that seemingly barely does much actual promoting, while Caribe was blaming Hyde. Each said the other was difficult to work with and ruined potential deals from being made.

Rigondeaux won a battle with Hisashi Amagasa late last year, a fight that was enjoyable largely because Amagasa was able to drop Rigondeaux twice — the kind of situation that is why Rigondeaux opts to emphasize avoiding getting hit in the first place. He’s split with Hyde.

He’s still the champion at 122, but that hasn’t helped him any. He also no longer has his two world titles there. Both sanctioning bodies stripped him, removing any further leverage.

It’s unclear what Rigondeaux’s deal with Roc Nation is. His purse for the Francisco fight will be made public this week, though that’s not necessarily an indication of how the contract is structured or whether there were any other bonuses or minimums listed within. There had reportedly been discussions beforehand with Al Haymon, but that deal didn’t come through. That’s a shame, as that would’ve left more options for Rigondeaux. Haymon hasn’t seemed inclined to work with Roc Nation. It’s possible that HBO would have Rigondeaux back for a fight with featherweight titleholder Vasyl Lomachenko, who is signed with Top Rank. It’s uncertain whether Rigondeaux will have a televised home to help his promoter make money.

Sometimes it’s better to fight for short money rather than not fight at all.

That’s what Demetrius Andrade should’ve realized. He turned down the fight with Jermell Charlo and a deal with Showtime because he felt the money wasn’t enough. It later came out — or at least it has been alleged in lawsuits filed by Andrade and his promoters — that Roc Nation offered Andrade money to turn down the Charlo fight, never paid him that money and never signed him to a buyout deal. While that case continues in court, Andrade has at least started to get along better again with his promoters; he returned in October, outpointing Dario Pucheta on a small card in Connecticut.

Andrade likely didn’t get much money for that fight, unless his promoters and manager decided for some reason to take a financial bath.

Earlier this year, this reporter spoke with Andrade about his situation and asked him why he wouldn’t just take the money that was offered to him for the Charlo fight — to get less money now in hopes of winning and turning it into more money later. That is what Zab Judah had done in taking his rematch with Cory Spinks and knocking Spinks out, I had said.

Andrade responded that he’d done that before, taking less money for past fights than he felt he deserved. And, he said, his turning down Charlo had led to more money being offered months later, though Charlo instead went on to face Vanes Martirosyan instead of Andrade.

“I got more money waiting,” Andrade said.

Except he didn’t. He didn’t get paid because he didn’t fight. Rigondeaux set his career back by fighting rarely and losing any momentum he could’ve had if he’d fought in a different style and for a different price. Ward has signed a deal with HBO but is recovering from an injury again.

As Ward said in his 2013 statement, time is of the essence for fighters. They only have so much time to make so much money — they are only in their primes for so long, and they want those primes to land them on primetime, in the main events on the major networks.

Rigondeaux is 35. Ward is turning 32 in February. Andrade is turning 28. We’ll see what effects the layoffs and any injuries have had.

They all have time left. But the time away was time wasted, as well as a waste of money they could’ve made. They made a big deal out of their situations. That big deal meant there was no deal — and in this sport, no deal is never a good deal.

 

[GzUp]

Floyd Mayweather Jr. was asked for his opinion about Saturday's shocking outcome in UFC 193, where former boxing champion Holly Holm knocked out massive favorite Ronda Rousey to capture the UFC bantamweight championship.

For the past twelve months, Mayweather and Rousey have been taking verbal shots at each other through the press.

The war of words first began when BoxingScene.com's David Greisman posted a video last year, where Mayweather was asked for his opinion on Rousey and said "I don't know he is." Rousey was offended by his response, claiming Mayweather was intentionally refused to acknowledge her.

Holm, although regarded as one of the best female boxers of her time when she made a full-time transition to MMA in 2013, was given little to no chance to defeat Rousey. She dominated the fight with accurate punches, movement and defense, and then landed her trademark high kick in the second round to knock Rousey out cold.

"Oh, I don't know," Mayweather said to Mlive's David Mayo when asked about Rousey's loss in Australia. "I don't speak on nobody's situation."

"Just in boxing period, contact sports period, you win some, you lose some. I don't know about this fight, I just know that you win some and you lose some. It basically comes with the territory."

 

[Willy Waffle]

So David Lemeuix turned down a fight against Curtis Stevens on the undercard of Kovalev vs Pascal

He turned it down because



Lemeuix thinks he goin Main Event on HBO...back to FS7 you go

It's not like hbo has alot to choose from . 5-10 years ago lemieux vs stevens wouldn't even be considered as a main event on hbo. Since, hbo only working with arum, roc nation and other small time promoters, it's a strong possibility lemieux-stevens can headline.

How do you throw your hooks??
A.

Or

B.

I've found B to feel much smoother while shadow boxing

B is better imo. I was always told that B, is when you turn the hook over and you get more power out of it.

 

[ChocolateGiddyUp]

It's not like hbo has alot to choose from . 5-10 years ago lemieux vs stevens wouldn't even be considered as a main event on hbo. Since, hbo only working with arum, roc nation and other small time promoters, it's a strong possibility lemieux-stevens can headline.

Hopefully not...With Hershman gone theres a chance for Allah to get his guys back on HBO

Lemeuix v Stevens main eventing would do horrible...Bradley Rios barely did 1 Milly N they are both known names

B is better imo. I was always told that B, is when you turn the hook over and you get more power out of it.

I've had trainers tell me throw it like A N then trainers throw it like B

Personally I throw it like B when shadow boxing or as quick counter check hook

On the heavy bag or when putting on pressure I throw it like A

 

[krackdagawd]

How do you throw your hooks??
A.

Or

B.

I've found B to feel much smoother while shadow boxing

I use both but I've noticed b works better against southpaws it could have just been the guys I was moving around with tho

...come to think of it @Yuzo

 

[ChocolateGiddyUp]

What's the biggest kiss of death brehs??

DLH cosign

Or

@patscorpio cosign/stable


DLH:
Picked Mayweather to lose erry fight
Ronda Rousey
David Lemeuix
Matthysse
Chose Khan over Swift
Tried to shyt on LSC...he sells out Staples N beats the shyt outta Mares

@patscorpio
#matthyssemafia
Lateef Kayodee
Molina turns out to be a pedophile
Sauna Boy
GGG PPV numbers


Im sure theres more feel free to add on brehs

 

[JDee323]

I use both but I've noticed b works better against southpaws it could have just been the guys I was moving around with tho

...come to think of it @Yuzo

i think B works better on the inside, and A on the outside and against taller fighters.

 

[LauderdaleBoss]

I've always thrown my hook like the A example. (both conventional and southpaw)

it just felt more comfortable. Felt like I was too open throwing it the other way.

 

[krackdagawd]

What's the biggest kiss of death brehs??

DLH cosign

Or

@patscorpio cosign/stable


DLH:
Picked Mayweather to lose erry fight
Ronda Rousey
David Lemeuix
Matthysse
Chose Khan over Swift
Tried to shyt on LSC...he sells out Staples N beats the shyt outta Mares

@patscorpio
#matthyssemafia
Lateef Kayodee
Molina turns out to be a pedophile
Sauna Boy
GGG PPV numbers


Im sure theres more feel free to add on brehs

We gotta add in the Mayweather cosign as well

Dawson

Devon

AB



Pat wins this by SD tho

 

[Axum Ezana]

 

[ChocolateGiddyUp]

That boxing legion nikka stay hoping for Khan vs Swift 2

I doubt it...unless they get the WBC to Axe that whole tourney thing N have only them go for the belt

N its hilarious how Ken Porter stfu after Al made that call...havent heard a word from him in weeks

 

[Amare's Right Hook]

I need you guys to join me on my campaign to make this fight happen in 2016.

Andre "SOG" Ward vs Yusef "Alternative Lifestyles" Mack. This fight needs to happen in Oakland. Andre Ward has a huge fan base there and has shown he can consistently draw there. Yusef Mack has a new alternative fan base and many from San Francisco will make a short drive to Oakland to witness this fight. It's time for SOG to live up to his name. Forget about targeting guys who have titles. It's time to target these boxers out here living wrong. Andre Ward can be a real life comic book character here. He can be Batman. Virgil Hunter can be Alfred. Together, they come up with a game plan to clean out these nefarious characters in boxing making our sport look bad. Target & fight the guys out here doing the devils work. This guy Mack is a prostitute, a liar, porn actor, adulterer, sinner, & a scumbag.

Look at this guy

This guy has embarrassed boxing. It's time for SOG to save the boxing world from this guy corrupting our sport.

Oh & that guy that killed someone in the ring. SOG gonna take him out too. He's gonna save boxing from this murderer.

SOG is no longer doing this for titles. He's doing this to save lives.

Mack by KO