The Official Bizarre Scientific Explanations Thread

Sensitive Blake Griffin

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wasn't sure i'm not a physicist :smile:

So this ball of hot dense stuff do we no where it came from? Or we still working on that right? (again not trolling just want to make sure i didn't miss some "news" ).
As of now we have no idea, and we may never know. We can essentially "look back in time" and see the big bang in the cosmic background microwave radiation that it left behind. Anything before that is a mystery because as I said, time didn't "begin" until the bang occurred and thus we have nothing we can observe or measure. I know you're not trolling breh, you're good peeps, cosmology is my favorite area of physics so I enjoy telling people what we know about.
 

acri1

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Not trolling, but can we be sure of that? no really is that part of the science...i'm not sure how that's proven or even if it can be or do we just theorize that it is? ? ?

I guess it would just seam odd to me that out in "space" there was just 1 little DENSE AS FUK dot floating around and then for no good reason it just decided 1 day to explode? Or maybe for good reason...
:manny:

You're misinterpreting the Big Bang theory. It seems like you're thinking of some kind of pre-existing vacuum with nothing in it, and then a small "dot" that exploded out of nowhere. That's not really accurate.

According to the theory, there was no preexisting space or time. In other words, there's no such thing as "outside of the dot". Or to put it another way, space and time came into existence at the same time as matter and energy. Rather than expanding outward into some preexisting vacuum, the event of the Big Bang was space itself expanding.

And it's a well-supported theory. A long time ago it was discovered that the universe is expanding. Galaxies are getting farther and farther away from each other - the space between them is literally expanding. It's only logical to extrapolate that in the past they were closer together, and the universe was much hotter and denser than it is now.
 

Brown_Pride

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As of now we have no idea, and we may never know. We can essentially "look back in time" and see the big bang in the cosmic background microwave radiation that it left behind. Anything before that is a mystery because as I said, time didn't "begin" until the bang occurred and thus we have nothing we can observe or measure. I know you're not trolling breh, you're good peeps, cosmology is my favorite area of physics so I enjoy telling people what we know about.

Cool.
So do we base time off of what we can see then? I mean prior to the boom didn't the dot(small dense hot) exist? Did it move? It obviously had energy in it or it wouldn't be hot. ??? I understand time in the sense of what we can see but what about what existed before we coudln't see? Time was still there right. THe dot if it moved couldn't have existed in the same place at the same time...right?
 

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You're misinterpreting the Big Bang theory. It seems like you're thinking of some kind of pre-existing vacuum with nothing in it, and then a small "dot" that exploded out of nowhere. That's not really accurate.

According to the theory, there was no preexisting space or time. In other words, there's no such thing as "outside of the dot". Or to put it another way, space and time came into existence at the same time as matter and energy. Rather than expanding outward into some preexisting vacuum, the event of the Big Bang was space itself expanding.

And it's a well-supported theory. A long time ago it was discovered that the universe is expanding. Galaxies are getting farther and farther away from each other - the space between them is literally expanding. It's only logical to extrapolate that in the past they were closer together, and the universe was much hotter and denser than it is now.

it has to expand INTO somethign right? Taking into account the HIggs field let's say i was able to rush towards the EDGE of the explosion RIGHT now. and i'm like the first particle on the outer edge, what's next to me for me to move into. If i understand the Higgs field there are particles between everything, I.E. an ocean. OUTSIDE of the bang there exist nothing right, e.g. there is no Higgs field. That doesn't mean nothing is there though does it?

And again time existed as we know it, there is no real way to know what came BEFORE the bang. Conceptually even if we agree "time as we know it" didn't exist, whatever caused the bang existed at some point and it couldn't just come from out of thin air right (particularly now that we know there is no such thing as thin air")

???
 

Sensitive Blake Griffin

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Cool.
So do we base time off of what we can see then? I mean prior to the boom didn't the dot(small dense hot) exist? Did it move? It obviously had energy in it or it wouldn't be hot. ??? I understand time in the sense of what we can see but what about what existed before we coudln't see? Time was still there right. THe dot if it moved couldn't have existed in the same place at the same time...right?
Time is slowed down by massive objects, if the universe is just that point of ininitely hot/dense matter (no expansion has occurred) then ALL the mass of the entire universe is contained within it and it's infinitely small, time would not even pass. It's the same reason that time stops in the event horizon of a black hole. We know from quantum mechanics that things can exist in two places at the same time. And whats crazy is me and you are actually existing in two places at the same time. You can almost think of it as a "vibration".
 

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Time is slowed down by massive objects, if the universe is just that point of ininitely hot/dense matter (no expansion has occurred) then ALL the mass of the entire universe is contained within it and it's infinitely small, time would not even pass. It's the same reason that time stops in the event horizon of a black hole. We know from quantum mechanics that things can exist in two places at the same time. And whats crazy is me and you are actually existing in two places at the same time. You can almost think of it as a "vibration".

yeah i caught that nova episode about string theory too lol

Again though, time in OUR universe didn't exist because of infinite gravity, did time exist outside of our....dot? I know you can't know this but still tell me lol.
 

Sensitive Blake Griffin

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it has to expand INTO somethign right? Taking into account the HIggs field let's say i was able to rush towards the EDGE of the explosion RIGHT now. and i'm like the first particle on the outer edge, what's next to me for me to move into. If i understand the Higgs field there are particles between everything, I.E. an ocean. OUTSIDE of the bang there exist nothing right, e.g. there is no Higgs field. That doesn't mean nothing is there though does it?

And again time existed as we know it, there is no real way to know what came BEFORE the bang. Conceptually even if we agree "time as we know it" didn't exist, whatever caused the bang existed at some point and it couldn't just come from out of thin air right (particularly now that we know there is no such thing as thin air")

???
Nope. The expansion is what created that space. It's not like the space was already there and the dot expanded into it. The dot was the size of the universe.
 

Sensitive Blake Griffin

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yeah i caught that nova episode about string theory too lol

Again though, time in OUR universe didn't exist because of infinite gravity, did time exist outside of our....dot? I know you can't know this but still tell me lol.
Good question but we really don't know unfortunately. It's another one of those things where we don't have the instrumentation or measuring devices to know such a thing.
 

Brown_Pride

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Nope. The expansion is what created that space. It's not like the space was already there and the dot expanded into it. The dot was the size of the universe.

how can you say what was outside the dot for sure? That much i know we don't know, nor are we likely to ever know. We CAN know this universe, we cannot nor are we likely to ever know OUTSIDE of it. Sorta like extra dimensions n such. We cannot even hypothesize about them because, right now at least, they are beyond our comprehension.
 

Sensitive Blake Griffin

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how can you say what was outside the dot for sure? That much i know we don't know, nor are we likely to ever know. We CAN know this universe, we cannot nor are we likely to ever know OUTSIDE of it. Sorta like extra dimensions n such. We cannot even hypothesize about them because, right now at least, they are beyond our comprehension.
Now we're getting into the multiverse theory :noah:

as far as I know there is no solid scientific evidence to support that theory. But once you've learned about quantum mechanics, it really does seem like anything is possible. It's almost as if our universe could just be summed up with "infinity" doesn't it just seem like everything is endless? I mean just look at all these particles List of particles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it seems like shyt just never ends and we can keep analyzing the universe forever. It's amazing that we know as much as we do though.
 

acri1

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it has to expand INTO somethign right? Taking into account the HIggs field let's say i was able to rush towards the EDGE of the explosion RIGHT now. and i'm like the first particle on the outer edge, what's next to me for me to move into. If i understand the Higgs field there are particles between everything, I.E. an ocean. OUTSIDE of the bang there exist nothing right, e.g. there is no Higgs field. That doesn't mean nothing is there though does it?

And again time existed as we know it, there is no real way to know what came BEFORE the bang. Conceptually even if we agree "time as we know it" didn't exist, whatever caused the bang existed at some point and it couldn't just come from out of thin air right (particularly now that we know there is no such thing as thin air")

???

I can't speak on what caused the big bang, if anything. There's no way to know using current science. We can't say anything about what happened prior 10^43 seconds after the Big Bang...we don't know physics works when matter is that hot and dense. But according to the equations, t=0 at the Big Bang, so it doesn't make sense to talk about anything happening before it. It would be like asking what's north of the north pole.

As far as expanding into something, no. Here's how a scientist puts it:

What is the universe expanding into?

This is a very good question which is not at all easy to give a satisfactory answer to! The first time I tried to write an answer to this, we got so many follow-up questions from people who were still confused that I decided to try to answer it again, this time much more comprehensively. The long explanation is below. However, if you just want a short answer, I'll say this: if the universe is infinitely big, then the answer is simply that it isn't expanding into anything; instead, what is happening is that every region of the universe, every distance between every pair of galaxies, is being "stretched", but the overall size of the universe was infinitely big to begin with and continues to remain infinitely big as time goes on, so the universe's size doesn't change, and therefore it doesn't expand into anything. If, on the other hand, the universe has a finite size, then it may be legitimate to claim that there is something "outside of the universe" that the universe is expanding into. However, because we are, by definition, stuck within the space that makes up our universe and have no way to observe anything outside of it, this ceases to be a question that can be answered scientifically. So the answer in that case is that we really don't know what, if anything, the universe is expanding into.

Now, for those of you who want a more comprehensive discussion:

Let me begin by saying that "expanding" isn't really the best word to describe what is happening to the universe, although that is the word that is often used - a word choice which I think leads to a lot of unnecessary confusion regarding what is already a difficult topic! A more accurate word for what the universe is doing might be "stretching".

The difference between "expanding" and "stretching", for me at least, is that an "expanding universe" conjures up an image where there is a bunch of galaxies floating through space, all of which started at some center point and are now moving away from that point at very fast speeds. Therefore, the collection of galaxies (which we call the "universe") is expanding, and it is certainly fair to ask what it is expanding into.

The current theories of the universe, however, tell us that this is not the picture we should have in mind at all. Instead, the galaxies are in some sense stationary - they do not move through space the way that a ball moves through the air. The galaxies simply sit there. However, as time goes on, the space between the galaxies "stretches", sort of like what happens when you take a sheet of rubber and pull at it on both ends. Although the galaxies haven't moved through space at all, they get farther away from each other as time goes on because the space in between them has been stretched.

Of course, when we think of space in everyday life, we don't think of it as something which is capable of stretching. Space, to us, just seems like something which is there, and which everything else in the universe exists within. But according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, space isn't really as simple as our common sense tells us. If we want to understand the actual way that the universe functions, we need to find some way to incorporate Einstein's ideas into our mental picture and imagine space as a more complicated entity which is capable of doing things like "bending" and "stretching".

To help us imagine this, a lot of people have come up with analogies for the universe in which space is represented by something more tangible. For example, there is the analogy with a sheet of rubber (or sometimes a balloon) that I mentioned above. My favorite analogy, though, involves imagining the universe as a gigantic blob of dough. Embedded in the dough are a bunch of raisins, spread throughout. The dough represents space, and the raisins represent the galaxies. (To the best of my knowledge, this analogy was originally proposed by Martin Gardner in his 1962 book Relativity for the Million.) We have no idea how big the dough is at this point - all we know is that it is very big, and we, sitting on some raisin somewhere inside it, are so far away from the "edge" that the edge can't possibly have any effect on us or on what we see.

Now, someone puts the dough in the oven and it begins to expand. The raisins move apart from each other, but relative to the dough they don't move at all - the same particles of dough that start off near a particular raisin will always be next to that raisin. That is what I meant when I said that the galaxies aren't really moving through space as the universe expands - here, the raisins aren't moving through the dough, but the distance between the raisins is still getting larger.

This new picture of the universe which I am asking you to imagine is, on a practical level, much different from the old picture in which the galaxies are all moving through space away from some point at the center. A lot of concepts and definitions that seem simple to us in the old picture are much more complicated now. For example:

What is the distance between two galaxies? In the old picture, this is an easy question to answer theoretically (though not necessarily in practice!). Just get yourself a giant tape measure and clip it to a faraway galaxy, then come back to our galaxy and hold on tight. As the galaxy moves away, it will pull on the tape measure, and you will easily be able to read off the distance as the tape measure unwinds... one billion light-years, one and half billion light-years, two billion light-years, etc.

In our new picture of the universe, however, with the raisins and the dough, the tape measure will not unwind at all as the universe expands, because the galaxies are not actually moving with respect to each other! Instead, it will read one billion light-years the whole time. You could be perfectly justified in saying that the distance between the galaxies has not changed as time goes on. When you bring the tape measure back in, however, you will notice something unusual; due to the stretching of space, your tape measure will have stretched as well, and if you compare it to an identical tape measure which you had sitting in your pocket the entire time, you will see that all the tick marks on it are twice as far apart as they used to be. Using the tape measure from your pocket as a reference, you would now say that the galaxy is two billion light-years away, even though the first tape measure said it was one billion light-years away. As you can see, the concept of "distance" in this new picture of the universe is somewhat more complicated than in the old picture! It is unclear whether the universe as a whole is really "expanding" - all that we really measure is a stretching of the space between each pair of galaxies. (Note that we might have to have an "imaginary" tape measure whose atoms aren't actually being held together by intermolecular forces in order for the scenario described above to actually take place as described.)

(By the way, this analogy of the tape measure is pretty similar to what actually happens to light when it travels between galaxies. When light is emitted from one galaxy and travels through space to another galaxy, during its trip through space it also will be stretched, causing it to have a longer wavelength and therefore causing its color to appear more towards the red end of the spectrum. This is what leads us to see redshifted light when we look at faraway galaxies, and it is measurements of this redshift that allow us to estimate the distances to these galaxies.)

Where is the center of the universe? In the old picture, it is easy to say where the center of the universe is - it's the point in space that all the galaxies are moving away from. In the new picture, though, this isn't so clear. Remember, the galaxies aren't actually moving away from each other - they're sitting still! Let's go back to the dough analogy - sure, you can imagine that even if the dough is really really big, it has some point within it which is the geometric center. But this definition is not very useful. Since the dough represents the space that we live in, we have no way to see "outside" of the dough to get a sense of the entire shape and figure out where the center is. So if you are stuck inside the dough, and have no way to see anything except the dough, and if you are so far from the "edge" of the dough that you can't see it and it can't have any effect on you, then what difference do you notice between the point where you're at and the point that is actually at the geometric center of the entire blob of dough? The answer is that there is no difference, absolutely none. The concept of the "center of the universe" loses all meaning, so we don't even think about it.

In fact, we can go a step further and imagine that the center isn't even there at all! How? Well, what if instead of just being really really big, the dough were infinitely big - that is, you could walk forever in a straight line and never reach a place where the dough ends. In that case, there really would be no center of the universe - the only way you can define the center is to mark out the edges and find the point that's equally in between all of them. So if the universe is infinitely big and has no edges, then it also has no center, not even on a theoretical level.

What does the universe expand into? Finally, we can return to the original question. In our old picture of the universe, the answer would be simple, although very unsatisfying. The collection of galaxies that make up the universe is moving through space; therefore, the universe is expanding into even more space than it already encompassed. In our new picture, though, the galaxies are just raisins spread throughout the dough - their presence is largely irrelevant to the question of the universe's expansion. What we really care about is the dough, and whether or not it has a boundary.

If the dough does have a boundary, then it is legitimate to ask what is beyond the boundary that the dough expands "into". But for our universe, that is a very complicated question to ask! The boundary at the edge of the dough represents the "edge" of space. By definition, we exist within space and have no way to leave it! So we don't think there is any way to observe or measure what is beyond, unless it had some effect on us that we currently don't know about. It would be really weird to imagine reaching the "end" of space. What would it look like, for example? These are questions that we have no way to give a scientific answer to, so the simple answer is that we don't know! All we do know is that based on our current understanding of theoretical cosmology, the universe does not have a boundary - it is either infinite or it wraps around itself in some way. Observations seem to agree with these predictions in the sense that if the universe does have a boundary, we know that the boundary is so far away from us that we can't currently see it and it doesn't have any effect on us.

If the universe is indeed infinite, then the simple answer to the original question is that the universe doesn't have anything to expand into. Thinking about infinity is always complicated, but a good analogy can be made with simple math. Imagine you have a list of numbers: 1,2,3,etc., all the way up to infinity. Then you multiply every number in this list by 2, so that you now have 2,4,6,etc., all the way up to infinity. The distance between adjacent number in your list has "stretched" (it is now 2 instead of 1), but can you really say that the total extent of all your numbers has "expanded"? You started off with numbers that went up to infinity, and you finished with numbers that went up to infinity. So the total size is the same! If these numbers represent the distances between galaxies in an infinite universe, then it is a good analogy for why the universe does not necessarily expand even though it stretches.

Finally, I should point out that not everything in the universe is "stretching" or "expanding" in the way that the spaces between faraway galaxies stretch. For example, you and I aren't expanding, the Earth isn't expanding, the sun isn't expanding, even the entire Milky Way galaxy isn't expanding. That's because on these relatively small scales, the effect of the universe's stretching is completely overwhelmed by other forces (i.e. the galaxy's gravity, the sun's gravity, the Earth's gravity, and the atomic forces which hold people's bodies together). It is only when we look across far enough distances in the universe that the effect of the universe's stretching becomes noticeable above the effects of local gravity and other forces which tend to hold things together. (That is why, in the analogy of the tape measure I discussed above, the tape measure that you keep in your pocket does not get stretched, while the one that goes between two galaxies does get stretched. I bet some people were wondering about that!)
 

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:mindblown:

I always liked the North of the North Pole analogy:smile:
And yes the Multiverse is in it's conceptualization just fukin nuts, the whole things is a giant WOW moment IMHO. I knew some of the answer to the questions and played devils advocate but learned some shyt too.

It is crazy how much we do know and have been able to learn just by looking up is it not? Even crazier is how much we don't know, nor will we ever know in our lifetimes :to:

Rep to the both of you
 

Sensitive Blake Griffin

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