It's more than obvious they are crying about 'lack of qualified employees' when they can simply issue Visas and get many more of those immigrants for much cheaper. These immigrants are getting paid more than the 'median wage', but the immigrants they are getting are likely the best of the best, so let's compare them to what someone commensurate to their experience and credentials would command by hiring a domestic worker and I'm sure we'd see a different story.
The myth of America's missing software engineers
- Thread starter theworldismine13
- Start date
see how quick a kid gets laughed at if he says he wants to do something with computers in high school or elementary school.
That right there is the problem
But in your first post you said the problem is American colleges aren't teaching their graduates anything. Now you're saying that the students have no interest in learning "computers" (even tho the average 4 year old nowadays is using a computer on a daily basis). Which is it? Sounds like your cycling thru a list of cliches...
duckbutta
eienaar van mans
Foreign engineers are not really that much better or smarter than american engineers...they are just willing to take less pay and are willing to work more hours...
It also needs to be stated that H1b's are on work visas, so as soon as the company has no need for them they can ship them back and the H1b really has no recourse for action...yes, as an IT manager at my current company anytime we have a project their is always a few managers who make the statement of "why don't we just hire some H1b's to do it and ship them back when it's done" instead of hiring local full time Americans...
I worked at the largest computer engineering company in the world for a few years and inside of 8 weeks they could turn a 125 k american senior electrical engineering job into a 55k H1b job...
The point is moot now though, as most american engineers are hip to the game and are looking to get out of engineering, and most young people who would be engineers now look at it and decide the return on investment is not enough. I know two very bright young men who would have made good engineers, but got into other fields because they look at the industry and say...why would i go to a 4 year university and rack up college debt to work in an industry where the salaries are trending down and more foreigners are being brought over to work every year...
And trust me, as someone who has to hire for senior level engineering and IT positions, foreign engineers are not that smart
It also needs to be stated that H1b's are on work visas, so as soon as the company has no need for them they can ship them back and the H1b really has no recourse for action...yes, as an IT manager at my current company anytime we have a project their is always a few managers who make the statement of "why don't we just hire some H1b's to do it and ship them back when it's done" instead of hiring local full time Americans...
I worked at the largest computer engineering company in the world for a few years and inside of 8 weeks they could turn a 125 k american senior electrical engineering job into a 55k H1b job...
The point is moot now though, as most american engineers are hip to the game and are looking to get out of engineering, and most young people who would be engineers now look at it and decide the return on investment is not enough. I know two very bright young men who would have made good engineers, but got into other fields because they look at the industry and say...why would i go to a 4 year university and rack up college debt to work in an industry where the salaries are trending down and more foreigners are being brought over to work every year...
And trust me, as someone who has to hire for senior level engineering and IT positions, foreign engineers are not that smart
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That's because your call got routed to India.nothing worse than calling comcast and hearing that indian accent on the other end
part of my job is to help companies cut cost by routing tech support calls to India and
It's more than one issue.
this nation was built on slavery... what do you expect... it's a rent a slave program - that pays the slave MAddd money between 30-90/hr. But when you're done with them you can cut them without any bad press, any backlash. You know that their real slave masters (visa sponsors) will simply place them on a different project or feed you more candidates once you have a different skill to fill. They work long hours. they don't bytch and complain. They are mostly quiet and don't start trouble. They have the skills... and are so focused on the skill that you can't go wrong.
You only need a few american full time workers for the more creative shyt... or for things with extensive client facing, etc.
You only need a few american full time workers for the more creative shyt... or for things with extensive client facing, etc.
Richard Wright
Living Legend
I understand that. But what should an american do while in school?
FreshFromATL
Self Made
Foreign engineers are not really that much better or smarter than american engineers...they are just willing to take less pay and are willing to work more hours...
It also needs to be stated that H1b's are on work visas, so as soon as the company has no need for them they can ship them back and the H1b really has no recourse for action...yes, as an IT manager at my current company anytime we have a project their is always a few managers who make the statement of "why don't we just hire some H1b's to do it and ship them back when it's done" instead of hiring local full time Americans...
I worked at the largest computer engineering company in the world for a few years and inside of 8 weeks they could turn a 125 k american senior electrical engineering job into a 55k H1b job...
The point is moot now though, as most american engineers are hip to the game and are looking to get out of engineering, and most young people who would be engineers now look at it and decide the return on investment is not enough. I know two very bright young men who would have made good engineers, but got into other fields because they look at the industry and say...why would i go to a 4 year university and rack up college debt to work in an industry where the salaries are trending down and more foreigners are being brought over to work every year...
And trust me, as someone who has to hire for senior level engineering and IT positions, foreign engineers are not that smart
While I agree with some of your post. At the end of the day I have never seen a top-tier American software engineer struggle to get a job or lose money because he was impacted by H1B's. Maybe for nikkas wit marginal talent, but at the end of the day, if your skills tight, you're continue to make dough.
duckbutta
eienaar van mans
This is only true if said company values intelligence, ability, and talent, over saving money by hiring cheap labor.
I've worked for companies that absolutely valued intelligence and ability in an engineering position, and paid those engineers far above marking value to keep them.
I've worked at companies where the only driving force behind hiring somebody is how little money can we pay them.
Often times, big box companies are the "how cheap can we get" crowd. Companies like HP, Microsoft, Cisco, who are in a mature market and their is nothing new under the sun, they just need bodies and they want them as cheap as hell
The Googles and Facebooks of the world, who still market themselves as "innovators" and are in what is still a fledgling market ( the internet ) are the ones who are app to focus on someones ability and intelligence, and if they feel that person has something to contribute, will be willing to pay market valuer or above for that persons talents.
I have seen top-tier American engineers of every variety except for civil ( not sure how many civil engineers are on this site but they seem to be the only engineering group that sort of shuns foreigners ) get straight up let go simply because the company thought they could get a foreigner to do the same job for less money and no benefits...
Worked at a place that like clockwork, once you turned 55 and you were an American engineer...u were out of there...cause the company figured "no american that old will want to work 14 hours 6 days a week and that is what our expectation is "
... foreign engineers are not that smart
I did a Java code review for a contractor of ours who is a foreigner.
He wrote this near the top of his code to define all his variables.
private static final int NUMBER_ZERO = 0;
private static final int NUMBER_ONE = 1;
private static final int NUMBER_TWO = 2;
I was like you don't need to do that for integers. It's never going to change. Zero is never going to be another number.
Usually, they are already here on some other visa.
They are a bit cheaper.
Well, during the dot com boom, the need for IT professionals was huge. H1-B visa was a way to fulfill work needs.
After the dot com bust, there's still a need for IT professionals where jobs cannot be outsourced. For example, IT/software development for local/state/federal government agencies. American businesses who cannot have telecommuting/outsourced personnel for security reasons like contractors for governments, personnel who are involved with IT security, people who work with sensitive information like hospitals, payroll, human resources.
duckbutta
eienaar van mans
Oh man don't get me started on this subject...
As part of the interview process I ask people to write out some scripts, or I write them out and ask them to tell me what the output would be. I hire for our virtualization team, primarily VMware, so I am expecting every person I interview to know how to script.
I asked a dude "if i want to return some properties of a VM what would be the command I use" Anybody who has done any real virtualization knows the simplest answer is "get-vm"...
Dude really went up to the board and started sweating on some
shyt...never did write anything...I looked at his resume again, and sure enough...he had "5 years experience scripting and automating vmware scheduled task"...which is funny...cause the scheduled task is really already automated...u just have to select a time to run it...I was writing out a script one time and had another H1b guy stop me in the middle of it and say "Oh there is a shorter way to do that"...I gave him the chalk and said go ahead...dude went so far off into left field...he was just making up variables as he went...like the variable for running vmware tools is vmwaretoolsisrunning or vmwaretoolsstatus.....dude put some shyt on the board like vmwaretoolstopandstartstate...i was like
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Wow. You end these interviews well.Oh man don't get me started on this subject...
As part of the interview process I ask people to write out some scripts, or I write them out and ask them to tell me what the output would be. I hire for our virtualization team, primarily VMware, so I am expecting every person I interview to know how to script.
I asked a dude "if i want to return some properties of a VM what would be the command I use" Anybody who has done any real virtualization knows the simplest answer is "get-vm"...
Dude really went up to the bored and started sweating on some
I was writing out a script one time and had another H1b guy stop me in the middle of it and say "Oh there is a shorter way to do that"...I gave him the chalk and said go ahead...dude went so far off into left field...he was just making up variables as he went...like the variable for running vmware tools is vmwaretoolsisrunning or vmwaretoolsstatus.....dude put some shyt on the board like vmwaretoolstopandstartstate...i was like
US IT worker files hiring lawsuit against Infosy
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/080513-us-it-worker-files-hiring-272544.html?hpg1=bn
If these types of lawsuits ever gain traction look out.
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/080513-us-it-worker-files-hiring-272544.html?hpg1=bn
If these types of lawsuits ever gain traction look out.