The myth of America's missing software engineers

theworldismine13

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http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2013/08/05/immigration-h1b-visas-tech-jobs

For the top 10 jobs where H-1B visas are requested, only three do not currently have enough qualified American jobseekers to satisfy demand, according to a new study.
By Ethan Rouen

130805102802-software-engineers-620xa.jpg


FORTUNE – The U.S. has an engineering shortage, right? Well, not exactly, no.

While the titans of Silicon Valley are calling for immigration reform that will allow them to nab foreign computer gurus to fill open engineering jobs, one of their own has crunched the numbers and discovered that may not be necessary.

Bright.com, a California-based company that uses big data analysis to pair jobseekers with employers, released a report last month that showed that the supposed dearth of high-skilled engineers in the United States may be fiction after all. In fact, Bright's analysis reveals that for the top 10 jobs where H-1B visas are requested, only three do not currently have enough qualified American jobseekers to satisfy demand.

"The main conclusion that we need more foreign tech workers is not true," says David Hardtke, Bright's chief scientist. "We need to be more targeted in our use of this program."

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To be sure, using data to argue about contentious policy issues should always prompt skepticism. It's too easy to focus on particular aspects of any data analysis to prove one's point and overlook those items that may raise more questions.

Bright took great care to avoid several pitfalls and make its data applicable on a large scale. It looked at H-1B applications and rewrote company's job descriptions to make them more generic (it is common for a company to write a job description so specific that only one temporary worker fits the qualifications). Using the company's proprietary Bright Score, which takes into account education and fit as well as proximity to the job, the data crunchers then compared the job descriptions with 1 million active U.S.-based jobseekers (out of a total pool of about 20 million) over 45 days

What they found was both troubling yet unsurprising. The most requested position when applying for an H-1B is computer systems analyst. Although Bright determined that this position has few qualified American candidates, it is also a lower-paying job compared to jobs like software engineer and requires only a two-year degree. The H-1B program is designed to recruit high-skilled workers.

For higher paying jobs, like computer programmer, software developer, and electronics engineer, Bright found more than one domestic job candidate for every H-1B application. And for financial analysts, the company found 12 local candidates for every visa application.

That evidence seems enough to get xenophobes up in arms, but these analyses are complicated. Ask tech companies in New York City or Silicon Valley if the pool of applicants for programmers is meeting their needs, and their first question will be, "Why? Please tell me you know someone who is looking for a job."

"You have to talk about two worlds: Silicon Valley and the rest of America," Hardtke says. "There is, indeed, a shortage of tech workers in the Bay Area."

Another aspect of Bright's report that surprised the data scientists was that the average salary for H-1B workers was higher than the median in each field. It would make sense that an employer would try to offer a lower salary to an employee it helped move to the United States since that employee also gains the benefit of getting sponsored, but the analysis found the opposite.

You could argue that this is evidence that these foreign workers are particularly valuable to their employers. The competition to recruit them is so fierce that they are actually commanding higher wages than their American counterparts.

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But you can also look at the results another way. The government requires companies to pay H-1B workers the median wage for the positions they fill. If the top position filled by H-1Bs is the lower-paid systems analyst position, it's possible that companies might be publicly posting openings for lower-wage jobs and filling them with extremely skilled programmers who are eager to work in the U.S.

It's clear that employers are misusing the H-1B program based on the types of jobs they are looking to fill. Why wouldn't they try to save some cash in the process?

The biggest users of these visas are not the tech companies that are calling for an increase in the quotas. They are outsourcing firms that hire foreign workers and loan them to other companies.

So why are so many tech CEOs getting behind fwd.us, the organization lobbying to increase the number of H-1B visas? Through largely unbiased analysis of a huge quantity of data, Bright -- which employs two H-1B workers -- seems to have ruled out the more altruistic reasons.

Policymakers ought to probe the need for foreign technology workers and the intentions of those looking to hire them. A good start would be a close examination of the job titles, the actual roles, and the actual salaries of H-1B workers to see if this program has actually become a tool to drive down wages.

It's also a good to idea to do a cost analysis of hiring domestically vs. internationally. The cost of hiring an H-1B worker is about $5,000. Using a recruiter for a domestic hire costs four times as much.
 

Chris.B

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The question here is finding quality engineers.

The best engineers I know were immigrants.
I don't know what they are teaching kids in college I interviewed one for a position the other day and I didn't recommend him for hiring because he knew nothing but had a 3.9 GPA :what:

the average American kid cannot compete with a kid from Asia or even some African countries when it comes to software/Network engineering.

You won't understand till you work in the business.
 

Brown_Pride

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Interesting. So typically they are paying immigrants more to come here and do the same work? Why? Do companies not know, or is the talent gap that big as Chris B points out?

It's not like outsourcing low paying jobs where you might blame it on corporate greed, in this case it looks like the corps may be paying more...again the question is why?
 

Blackking

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I'm not sure about this..... there are some skill sets that are hard to fill if you aren't looking for H1 Visas from india.
 

Type Username Here

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In my current degree program, there are very few multi-generational Americans (both black and white).

It's all immigrants, children of immigrants, foreign students, and so on.

Immigrant Excellence :blessed:

But maybe it's because the best are selected to go, so it skews my perception? But maybe not, cause the American Jewish cats are all over the Math and Physics departments.

One thing about Computer or Software Engineering, if you know what you're doing and already are an American Citizen, you are going to eat.
 

Richard Wright

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The question here is finding quality engineers.

The best engineers I know were immigrants.
I don't know what they are teaching kids in college I interviewed one for a position the other day and I didn't recommend him for hiring because he knew nothing but had a 3.9 GPA :what:

the average American kid cannot compete with a kid from Asia or even some African countries when it comes to software/Network engineering.

You won't understand till you work in the business.


What should americans do to close the gap?
 

Richard Wright

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Software eng. and CS arent considered cool in the states. A concerted effort should be made to fix that. Also different programming paradigms should be taught...functional programming for example

Well Im a computing and applied math major, what should I do to supplement my coursework?
 

JT-Money

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The problem with H1b visa it's no longer used for really hard to fill technical positions. Companies mainly use it to keep wages down since those visa's are tied to the employer. If that wasn't the case they would fast track green cards for all these visa holders.

I really don't see the hype about foreign born technology workers. Some are great but you also have some that are terrible. Just look at how bad tech support has gotten at most technology companies. And the vast majority of people supporting these products are foreigners. I can name several companies off the top of my head where support has gone down the drain since those companies moved it overseas.
 

MaccabeanRebel

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Well Im a computing and applied math major, what should I do to supplement my coursework?

You really are ahead of the game with the math knowledge..talk to any traditional CS major a few years in the professional world and they will all tell you the same thing..."I wish I paid more attention to math in college".

With that said..If I were you I would try to pick up a more functional programming language in the traditional sense like Haskell, Lisp, Scala, or ML...personally I recommend Haskell or Lisp. The functional programming languages are more declarative teaching you the "what is" whereas the imperative languages like C, Java, Python tend to be very procedural with emphasis on the "how to". No language is better then the other so it doesn't matter what you really pick up...at the end of the day you want to learn how to program so focus on learning sound programming practices. Learning syntax of a language doesn't teach you programming so don't get caught up trying to learn a bunch of languages.

There are so many free books out there on programming that it's ridiculous.

This is all just my opinion btw...not saying it's right.

With your math background I would look up this book called "Structured Interpretation of Computer Programs". MIT used to use it for their intro CS classes and its FREEEEEE. If you go through that and can do all the exercises you'll be better off than most CS grads coming out today IMO. The exercises in that book are pretty hardcore.

The book teaches concepts in scheme..one of the oldest languages still in use today but all the of concept ring true.
 

Serious

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1st Round Playoff Exits

Richard Wright

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You really are ahead of the game with the math knowledge..talk to any traditional CS major a few years in the professional world and they will all tell you the same thing..."I wish I paid more attention to math in college".

With that said..If I were you I would try to pick up a more functional programming language in the traditional sense like Haskell, Lisp, Scala, or ML...personally I recommend Haskell or Lisp. The functional programming languages are more declarative teaching you the "what is" whereas the imperative languages like C, Java, Python tend to be very procedural with emphasis on the "how to". No language is better then the other so it doesn't matter what you really pick up...at the end of the day you want to learn how to program so focus on learning sound programming practices. Learning syntax of a language doesn't teach you programming so don't get caught up trying to learn a bunch of languages.

There are so many free books out there on programming that it's ridiculous.

This is all just my opinion btw...not saying it's right.

With your math background I would look up this book called "Structured Interpretation of Computer Programs". MIT used to use it for their intro CS classes and its FREEEEEE. If you go through that and can do all the exercises you'll be better off than most CS grads coming out today IMO. The exercises in that book are pretty hardcore.

The book teaches concepts in scheme..one of the oldest languages still in use today but all the of concept ring true.

Thank you sir
 

FreshFromATL

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Interesting. So typically they are paying immigrants more to come here and do the same work? Why? Do companies not know, or is the talent gap that big as Chris B points out?

It's not like outsourcing low paying jobs where you might blame it on corporate greed, in this case it looks like the corps may be paying more...again the question is why?


lmao...these american college kids might have high gpa's but they're dumb-as-fukk in a real world environment.
 

Type Username Here

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This ^^^
Looks like the future of US medicine is heading in the direction....

it's already :mjpls:
http://www.amednews.com/article/20130225/profession/130229975/2/

Don't get me wrong, there are black dudes, but they are from Nigeria (two of them), South Africa, and Haiti. With the exception of the Haitian dude who is an immigrant, the other cats are foreign students. There is maybe one or two AA, but not a lot of WASP either. Major doesn't attract them for some reason.
 

the cac mamba

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s. Some are great but you also have some that are terrible. Just look at how bad tech support has gotten at most technology companies. s.
nothing worse than calling comcast and hearing that indian accent on the other end :beli:
 
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