and yet again another reason why the whole "joel is selfish/wrong/evil" crowd comes off as either being "edge" or just illogicalAlso, Ellie is 14. We're putting life or death decisions on a 14 year old?
'The Last of Us' HBO Series (NO GAME SPOILERS!) | Season 2 Coming Spring 2025 (7 Episodes)
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tinnyskillz
Superstar
Not that it matters but rewatching the episode I started thinking What if Ellie’s mom was immune to? Her leg looked like it was spreading but who knows. Marlene offed her before seeing (as she should have).
Also, when the fireflies took Ellie she was fully conscious. Before they put her under Marlene said she was asking about/worried about Joel. My question is. They didn’t tell her anything that pokes holes in Joel’s lies at the end? Next season should open with the doctor’s and nurses lying to Ellie saying they’re just going to check her brain first (leaving out the she’ll die part of course). THEN, them telling Ellie she’s special, there’s been no other immune person to try the surgery on, and they’ve been looking for a cure (basically the complete opposite of what Joel was claiming). Showing that Ellie knows but hasn’t said anything. Then fast forward to current time.
One last thing. I wonder how Joel got that scar on his neck at the end. It wasn’t there in the hospital, or the during the drive back to Jackson.
Sorry I didn't save the world, my friend
I was too busy buildin' mine again -Kendrick Lamar Joel Miller
I choose me, I'm sorry
Also, when the fireflies took Ellie she was fully conscious. Before they put her under Marlene said she was asking about/worried about Joel. My question is. They didn’t tell her anything that pokes holes in Joel’s lies at the end? Next season should open with the doctor’s and nurses lying to Ellie saying they’re just going to check her brain first (leaving out the she’ll die part of course). THEN, them telling Ellie she’s special, there’s been no other immune person to try the surgery on, and they’ve been looking for a cure (basically the complete opposite of what Joel was claiming). Showing that Ellie knows but hasn’t said anything. Then fast forward to current time.
One last thing. I wonder how Joel got that scar on his neck at the end. It wasn’t there in the hospital, or the during the drive back to Jackson.
Sorry I didn't save the world, my friend
I was too busy buildin' mine again -
I choose me, I'm sorry
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The Coli really hates TLOU 2's story like that? I don't. I know we can't go spoilers in here.
Right. And that Joel and the Fireflies were both pretty wrong in their own ways.
Another crybaby
Here ya go cry more LET IT ALL OUT
PART 2 STORY WASAND IT KEEPS BURNING YA BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
it really doesn't, me saying how poor the story in part 2 was is just how people felt about the game.
I think that type of story will translate better on TV though.
It's not just the coli breh
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
Sorry to bring this back up but I was going through the thread and it makes for a great discussionI know it's 20 years............what are you going on about. You are the stubborn one in this discussion. You are coming from a place of "The writer said this is how it's pose to be viewed, so I'm right", with nothing in the show to back it up.
idc what the writer says his intentions are with the story, all that matters is how it comes across in the show. The fact that you gotta go with inside the episode/bts stuff to prove anything you say, instead of using what's in the show...........says your point is trash.
The fact you have no thoughts of your own about shyt and just regurgitate what the writer said on the bts, is laughable. This explains why you cant prove anything about your argument using what's happening in the show. While I have pulled stuff from the episode going against any argument you make.
In that same video.........Neil Druckman, the nikka that created everything said "hero/villain depends on the perspective". Rebels are heroes imo. At the very least, they ARE NOT worse than Fedra.
If you just gonna parrot other ppl's thoughts w/o being able to back anything up with stuff in the show, this discussion over between me and you. Good luck with not having thoughts of your own
Also, it's funny in that post, you had no response to anything I proved you wrong about.
Where is your proof that the Doctor wasnt a collaborator? I proved he was.
Where in show does it say the resistance was against violence?
Where in the show does it say everyone was a collaborator?
WRITING (or staff) vs WHAT YOU SEE
I find that all these new shows suffer from this, and I never know who to side with. With all these behind the scenes, interviews, podcasts, etc... You can literally dive into the show like never before and get the ANSWER from creators, of what things mean. No more need from interpretation, just go right to the source, ask them, and then get the answer.
This USED to be my way of doing things. I don't give two fukks what some internet nerd "figured out" about the show. Some double meaning. Some ambiguous ending. I'd go right to the source, have them tell me what it meant, and accept that as cannon....
But ever since that "Gus is gay" shyt happened on the Breaking Bad podcast, this shyt been up in the air. You'll watch a show and get one direction, then the after show will tell you something totally different was going on, and you're a fukking idiot....
I don't know which lane to choose, but it's definitely becoming a lot more vague as to what is actually going on vs what they want to be going on. To bring it back, I never once thought the rebels were ON EQUAL FOOTING with fedra.. I mean withholding medicine and raping people is pretty high up on the list.. A lot higher than killing snitches.. But to the people who created the shyt, I'm way off and can't see that they are the same..
Just a thought
Artificial Intelligence
Not Allen Iverson
Joel is a murderer and a anti Vaxer and he still that nikka
and he still that nikka
I doubt there's a consensus here. I think...
Joel dying in the way the he did was a weird choice. I don't mind Abby killing Joel, but if they wanted to make us sympathize with Abby later then there was no need to beat him to death with a golf club. The knee shot, some "you killed my father" monologue, and a head shot or whatever would have been fine and still plenty shocking. Having her brutalize the dude with a golf club, while Ellie watched....and then leaving Ellie alive while she screamed how she was going to kill all of them was....confusing.
I also wasn't a huge fan of making Ellie such a selfish, unlikeable, evil shyt head....but that might just be my subjective read on things. I mean, she was too late to save Joel because she was busy getting high and fingering her girlfriend while they were supposed to be on patrol....looking for Joel.
Overall, though, I was cool with the broad strokes of the story and the general direction they took. It was certainly a bold move when they could have taken a more easy path. I like Abby and Lev's relationship a lot - that was the closest pt.2 got to the greatness of pt. 1 for me.
I also wasn't a huge fan of making Ellie such a selfish, unlikeable, evil shyt head....but that might just be my subjective read on things. I mean, she was too late to save Joel because she was busy getting high and fingering her girlfriend while they were supposed to be on patrol....looking for Joel.
Overall, though, I was cool with the broad strokes of the story and the general direction they took. It was certainly a bold move when they could have taken a more easy path. I like Abby and Lev's relationship a lot - that was the closest pt.2 got to the greatness of pt. 1 for me.
The way he handled the Marlene situation was cold bloodedJoel is a murderer and a anti Vaxer
well good writing always has hidden messages and meanings - its no different with this show and its writers
KC is fukked up under FEDRA - and under the rebels when they overthrow its STILL fukked up - KC Karen is still laying siege to people and doing what she wants ( manipulating lying and murdering people ) -
shed just make a whole new crop of snitches in her pursuit of killing the former snitches and to put it specifically EVERYONE who wasnt FEDRA ( meaning in a uniform ) they were forced to be complicit in some way ....after 20 years theres no way to not be have informed or co-operated with FEDRA in some way since FEDRA controlled you basic needs;
in Boston maybe they werent that bad but Joel even says the FEDRA in KC had a reputation that made it even to Boston..and he would fukk with anyone that collaborated with them ....and lets remind you Joel cooperated with FEDRA ( traded drugs for supplies ) ...Karen would be killing the "joel" of KC
... and her dudes are exacting vengeance on those they determine un worthy of being around - they are murdering them - and htey are murdering so many of them they have to burn piles of bodies...
they could exile those people to try to live in the wilderness...they could have the trials they SAY those people would get if they turned themselves in ......done so many alternate things..but they chose to kill them . Lets be VERY clear . almost all of the citizens in KC were in some way in a Henry /Sam situation where they had to trade something in order to exist - Henrys situation was extreme because he needed to save his brother with a drug that only FEDRA had ...but for sure thats a dynamic that every person had to endure in KC on some level in 20 years....
this is something that occurs in almost every overthrow ....Cuba , Venezuela, Brazil, Iran and Iraq, the list is long of where those who revolted are as bad or worse than those they overthrew. KC Karen is no different - thats the substory to the main story of Karen Vs Henry
Karen makes no distiguishment on what you traded - whether you actually betrayed someone that led to their death or you just repeated something you heard on the streets to get out of a situation with FEDRA she was killing you. and THATS why she and by extension the rebels are as bad as FEDRA
now if you draw even further out - to the marco about Joels actions of killing the Doctors and FF
the whole situation with KCrebels, Karen vs Henry is a mirror of the whole world - a cure wont stop people from doing what they are doing there which is murdering each other over what? the rebels are nt really capable of running the city - that ws the bigger argument the officer had withe Ellie - they are the only order in a chaotic situation because if FEDRA wasnt in control people would be killing and destroying themselves .....
so while the goal of the rebels is nobel ( over throwing FEDRA ) they behave fukked up
the goal of the FF is noble - but they are fukked up they car bomb and mass shoot they do all the shyt that terrorizes the populace in the name of over throwing FEDRA but really they have no plan other than that - so it should stand to reason that IF they are THAT disorganized and incapable of even fighting FEDRA then all the other shyt like medicine or food or even keeping order is equally as shoddy .
when you REALLY think about it - the FF are making shyt up as they go along - which means that the Doctors they have are equally as incapable. The old world is gone - even if they had a doctor that was worth a damn theyd have to have someone that was near genius ....this fungus had no know way to be countered even when civilization was at its height.
how in the holy hell could they possibly have the ability to figure out a cure in the middle of an apocalypse? it very well could have been that ellie mother had some kind of immunity - and if you as a regular person thought of that then how is a doctor even if he is a research doctor how is the solution to KILL ellie?
if the whole point is to mimic what her body produces killing her is like the dumbest thing possible esp when you dont even know what you need to look for to mimic what her body produces...this is what joel knows in the game with the tapes... but just the facts i mentioned above about the disorganized and chaotic way the FF behave is enough to justify Joel saying "nah" and taking Ellie out.
think about it - the FF are so fukked up and so not in control of things that they had to hire HIM to smuggle her out of the city to be handed off to a group that was already destroyed by infected .....
DJ Paul's Arm
Veteran
At the end of the day, Joel made a selfish move
You gotta understand where he’s coming from tho. He wasn’t going to go through another Sara 2.0 situation. Not after what Ellie did to save his life. It was a selfish move but I understand why he did it.
DJ Paul's Arm
Veteran
0 replay value unlike Part 1. I played that shyt so many times to the point where I can speed run that game.
Nero Christ
Sniper out now on all digital platforms brev
Gizmo_Duck
blathering blatherskite!
Part 2’s gameplay absolutely shyts on part 1’s though. Even now that im sitting here with the remake and part 2 and having played them both recently the only one I’m thinking about playing again soon is part 2. Once you’ve experienced the stories in both games a few times you don’t really need to ply it for that.
The encounter design, enemy AI, shooting, movement, level design, set pieces, and overall feel of part 2 is next level.
DJ Paul's Arm
Veteran
Well no shyt. Part 1 dropped in 2013 on PS3. The mechanics and graphics on a PS5 game better outshine a PS3 version.
I’m talkin story wise. TLOU is all about the storyline. If I want shoot’em up, bang bang in a zombie world, then I’m playing Resident Evil.