THE KINDA KOBE CLUTCH SHOTS THAT DONT SHOW UP IN “CLUTCH STATS”.......

Sccit

LA'S MOST BLUNTED
Bushed
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
56,438
Reputation
-19,899
Daps
75,494
Reppin
LOS818ANGELES

Mrhateeverything

All Star
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
712
Reputation
342
Daps
2,662
People that don't understand there is more to clutch then go ahead buckets. Copied and pasted from an older thread here I posted it in. I'm not a Kobe or Bron fan.


This was as of August 2017. LeBron had one more playoff run after this so take that into account.
Found this on Reddit awhile back.

Clutch" is 2 minutes left with margin of 3 in playoffs,
Playoff
Lebro
    • He is 40/106 in clutch situation
    • His free throw shooting is 49/67
    • True Shooting is, 49.8%
    • Assist per 36: 4.2 assists
    • Turnovers per 36: 4.2 turnovers
    Kobe
    • He is 40/96 in clutch situations.
    • His free throw shooting is 67/79
    • His true shooting is 58 %
    • Assists per 36: 4.3 assists
    • Turnovers per 36: 1.7 turnovers
    Finals: Last 2 minutes, margin of 3.

    Lebron
    • He is 4/23 in clutch situations
    • His free throw shooting is 10/14
    • His true shooting is 31%
    • Assists per 36: 3.7 assists
    • TO per 36: 3.7 TO
    Kobe
    • He is 10/20 in clutch situations
    • His free throw shooting is 4/5
    • His true shooting is 56.4%
    • Assists per 36: 7.5 assists
    • TO per 36: 1.5 TO
    Finals: Last 5 minutes, margin of 5.

    Lebron
    • 17/62 in clutch situations in the finals.
    • 32% EFG
    • 43% TS.
    • Assists per 36: 4.26
    • TO per 36: 3.1
    Kobe
    • 28/63 in clutch situations in the finals.
    • 46% EFG
    • 53% TS.
    • Assists per 36: 3.6
    • TO per 36: 1.08

    The narrative that Kobe isn't clutch and LeBron is , is weird.
    There's more to clutch then buzzer beater
 

IllmaticDelta

Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
28,893
Reputation
9,531
Daps
81,348
THIS IS PRETTY MUCH MY POINT

THE VIDEO DOESNT SHOW UP IN CLUTCH STATS


BUT REAL HEADS UNDERSTAND THOSE ARE THE EPITOME OF CLUTCH SHOTS

THEREFORE, UR CLUTCH STATS DONT MATTER


:mindblown:did you not read what I posted?


4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points


...the video you posted shows kobe against dallas in the 4th qtr with the lakers up by 2 with 2:34 to go. That's covered by the clutch time stat:dwillhuh:
 

Sccit

LA'S MOST BLUNTED
Bushed
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
56,438
Reputation
-19,899
Daps
75,494
Reppin
LOS818ANGELES
:mindblown:did you not read what I posted?


4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points


...the video you posted shows kobe against dallas in the 4th qtr with the lakers up by 2 with 2:34 to go. That's covered by the clutch time stat:dwillhuh:

READ THE POST ABOVE YOURS TO SEE HOW “CLUTCH STATS” CAN BE MANIPULATED

I WAS TALKING MORE SO THIS TYPA SHIIT

sco-1279144.jpg


AGENDA DRIVEN HAND PICKED FLASH-ON-YOUR-SCREEN CLUTCH STATS
 

Gotright

Superstar
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
9,837
Reputation
-43
Daps
21,435
Reppin
detroit
People that don't understand there is more to clutch then go ahead buckets. Copied and pasted from an older thread here I posted it in. I'm not a Kobe or Bron fan.


This was as of August 2017. LeBron had one more playoff run after this so take that into account.
Found this on Reddit awhile back.

Clutch" is 2 minutes left with margin of 3 in playoffs,
Playoff
Lebro
    • He is 40/106 in clutch situation
    • His free throw shooting is 49/67
    • True Shooting is, 49.8%
    • Assist per 36: 4.2 assists
    • Turnovers per 36: 4.2 turnovers
    Kobe
    • He is 40/96 in clutch situations.
    • His free throw shooting is 67/79
    • His true shooting is 58 %
    • Assists per 36: 4.3 assists
    • Turnovers per 36: 1.7 turnovers
    Finals: Last 2 minutes, margin of 3.

    Lebron
    • He is 4/23 in clutch situations
    • His free throw shooting is 10/14
    • His true shooting is 31%
    • Assists per 36: 3.7 assists
    • TO per 36: 3.7 TO
    Kobe
    • He is 10/20 in clutch situations
    • His free throw shooting is 4/5
    • His true shooting is 56.4%
    • Assists per 36: 7.5 assists
    • TO per 36: 1.5 TO
    Finals: Last 5 minutes, margin of 5.

    Lebron
    • 17/62 in clutch situations in the finals.
    • 32% EFG
    • 43% TS.
    • Assists per 36: 4.26
    • TO per 36: 3.1
    Kobe
    • 28/63 in clutch situations in the finals.
    • 46% EFG
    • 53% TS.
    • Assists per 36: 3.6
    • TO per 36: 1.08

    The narrative that Kobe isn't clutch and LeBron is , is weird.
    There's more to clutch then buzzer beater
Made up numbers
 

IllmaticDelta

Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
28,893
Reputation
9,531
Daps
81,348
People that don't understand there is more to clutch then go ahead buckets. Copied and pasted from an older thread here I posted it in. I'm not a Kobe or Bron fan.

The narrative that Kobe isn't clutch and LeBron is , is weird.
There's more to clutch then buzzer beater


you're right






7EfbL0O.jpg




Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth (2011)


oGW1o2A.png




In my 25 plus years of following the NBA, one of the more fascinating phenomena to me has been the plight of those that I refer to as “Kobe Nation”. Now, I’m not referring to Kobe “fans” - Many of those are a dime a dozen, stuffing the All-Star ballot box, displaying their #24 jerseys during road games, and riding the Kobe-train as long as the Lakers remain on top. No, I’m talking about Kobe Nation – those who have repeatedly extolled the virtues of Kobe Bryant while partaking on a daily quest to defend his basketball legacy, game performances, and polarizing personality. They are his apostles, and their fervor rivals that of even the most religious of zealots. They respond to criticism, deserved or undeserved, with an inverse defiance that embodies the personality of their hero; the more you critique them, the more combative they will become, the less they will listen, and the more likely you will be called a “hater”. For every action, there is a reaction.

Earlier in the season, ESPN’s Henry Abbott questioned Bryant’s status as the most “clutch” player in the NBA, and as you can imagine, Kobe Nation responded with a fury. Specifically, Abbott defended his stance by citing the Game Winning/Game Tying Shot metric traditionally used by coaches and GMs when scouting opposing teams – shot attempts in the final 24 seconds of a game during which a player’s team is either tied or trails by three or fewer points. And during Kobe’s 15-year career (regular season and playoffs), the results showed that he made only 36 game winning/game tying shots while missing a stellar 79, or 36/115.

So why then is Kobe Bryant considered to be the unanimous first choice among GMs, coaches, and players for taking the game winning/game tying shot for all the marbles? Abbott cites the media’s propensity to exhaust the highlight reel, limitations of human memory, and our attraction to flashiness rather than substance as the primary reasons for why fans, coaches, players, and GMs are misguided
]. In sum, people usually remember Bryant’s makes, which are undoubtedly spectacular in nature, but not his misses.

So where do I stand?

First a plea to Kobe Nation…. Allow me to go on record by stating that Kobe Bryant is one of the 10 greatest players to ever play the game. By the time he retires, he will likely be top 5. He is a phenomenal all-around player in every aspect of the game, and possesses a unique combination of talent and skill, that in my opinion, can only be rivaled by Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, LeBron James and Hakeem Olaujuwon. He also has a basketball IQ that is simply off the charts – a unique feel for the game that despite his numerous injuries, has allowed him to remain physically effective in a manner that is traditionally reserved for 20-somethings. Other than Michael Jordan, I have yet to see a player who displays the same level of ferocity, stubbornness, and will to win that Kobe Bryant does.

However, Henry Abbott is right. Kobe Bryant IS overrated in the clutch, and even more so when it comes to game winning/game tying shots. That’s right Kobe Nation, you heard me. In which universe does missing 79 out of 115 game winning/game tying shots constitute clutchness? Clutchness to me has always been defined basically and inherently. You either succeed and come through for your team, when your team needs you the most, or you don’t. And in 115 instances, during the time in which Bryant’s teams have needed him the most, he has succeeded only 36 times while failing 79 times. That’s a 31% success rate folks. It’s that simple.

We are not talking about a complex John Hollinger formula or algorithm. We are talking about a fairly straight forward metric – less than 24 seconds, time winding down, ball in Kobe’s hands, chance to win or tie, miss or make. All other variables are irrelevant:

- “Kobe is the most fearless”

- “Kobe wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game”

- “Kobe has the ability to make the most spectacular shots”

None of this matters. The only thing that matters is the result.

So that got me thinking – if the 36/115 stat includes both playoffs and regular season, how has Bryant performed in game winning and game tying shot situations during the playoffs alone? After all, playoff games are the ones that count the most, right? The pinnacle of pressure? The most important of time of the year when everything is at stake? Is there really a more clutch opportunity than a game winning/game tying shot in a playoff game?

The answer: Bryant is 7/25 or 28% -slightly worse during the playoffs than the regular season.


Keep in mind that the game winning/game tying shot is only ONE metric of clutch, and in a future article we will post additional data reviewing Kobe’s performance during the last 2 minutes, last 5 minutes, and the entire 4Q, which further substantiates my point. However, for now, we will focus on the game winning/game tying shot metric, which in my mind, represents the MOST pressure packed situations in a game.

Below is a breakdown of game winning/game tying shot attempt throughout Kobe Bryant’s 15 year career:

Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth

.
.
.
What model-dependent realism has to say about whether Kobe is clutch


Kobe isn't Clutch:

Despite all of his clutch fame, Kobe has had his skeptics. Most non-Laker fans hold this opinion. Some of this skepticism is based purely on hate, and other is based off of facts. Recently, ESPN analysts have criticized Kobe's numbers and how they deceive people in articles like this and this. What, exactly, makes Kobe so not clutch?

While Kobe has made a ton of clutch shots over his career, he has missed significantly more. Between 2000 and 2012, Kobe shot by far the highest number of attempts (230) in the final minute of games with a margin of five points or fewer for regular season games. Of those 230 attempts, he only made 80 of them. 80/230 puts him at a mediocre 34.8%, only slightly above the atrocious league average of 33.7%. This means that for every clutch basket that Kobe makes, he has 1.87 clutch misses. If those numbers are considered worthy of being considered one of the clutchest players of all time, Amar'e Stoudemire should be up there, as well. When your clutch numbers are worse than this guy, you probably should join a depression clinic before an all-clutch NBA team.

Regular season games are great and all, but the playoffs are the games that really matter. If you think Kobe's clutch numbers are better there, boy are you wrong. In the final minute of playoff games where the margin is within five points, Kobe has gone 10/31. That's 32.3%, which means that for every one amazing make Kobe has he has 2.09 bricks. Granted this playoff number comes in a small sample size; LeBron James (apparent, notable choke artist) has actually made the same number of clutch shots in the final minute of a playoff game as Kobe between 2000 and 2012 with 11 fewer attempts. That's not even including the plethora of clutch makes LeBron had against the Pacers and Spurs. Kobe's numbers are certainly not indicative of a player who shows up in big games.

As much of an offensive threat as Kobe is, one would expect that the Lakers would have a top-notch offense in crunch time of close games. To see a complete recap of just how bad Kobe and the Lakers' crunch time numbers are, you should check out Henry Abbott's Truehoop article posted a few years ago. One of the most stunning excerpts from this article is:

You'd expect Los Angeles to also have one of the league's best offenses in crunch time, right? Especially with the ball in the hands of the player most suited to those moments.

That's not what happens, though. In the final 24 seconds of close games the Lakers offense regresses horribly, managing just 82 points per 100 possessions...

The Lakers are not among the league leaders in crunch-time offense -- instead, they're just about average, scoring 82.35 points per 100 possessions in a league that averages 80.03. They are, however, among the league leaders in how much worse their offense declines in crunch time.

When Bryant is on the floor in crunch time, Bryant's Lakers are actually outscored by their opponents.

Kobe is said to be the clutchest player of all time, yet the Lakers' offensive numbers beg to differ

A Stephen Hawking theory & the Kobe clutch debate

.
.
.


LeBron May Be The Most Clutch Playoff Shooter Of His Generation


paine-lebron-0511.png




Relative to the league-wide average, James generated 4.8 more total points than expected on his go-ahead shots, which translates to about one entire playoff win beyond what an average shooter would have contributed from the same field-goal distances. And those numbers become magnified when you consider that James’s average go-ahead shot came in a playoff game with championship implications 34 percent greater than the typical postseason contest. After we weight by the leverage of his specific game-winning shot attempts, James generated the equivalent3 of 8.5 more points than expected, or roughly two playoff wins above average, with his clutch end-of-game shooting alone.

(By contrast, Bryant generated 3.2 fewer points than expected and did it in games that were about 64 percent more important than the average playoff game, compounding the damage of his 1-for-10 performance.)

LeBron May Be The Most Clutch Playoff Shooter Of His Generation

.
.



h3ZmkPg.png

vsGZyYa.png



.
.
.

take note of shot attempts and field goal% along with the all around game


4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points"

2010-11
2011-clutch-stats.jpg


2009-10
2010-clutch-stats.jpg


2008-09
2009-clutch-stats.jpg


2007-08
2008-clutch-stats.jpg
 

IllmaticDelta

Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
28,893
Reputation
9,531
Daps
81,348
READ THE POST ABOVE YOURS TO SEE HOW “CLUTCH STATS” CAN BE MANIPULATED

I WAS TALKING MORE SO THIS TYPA SHIIT

sco-1279144.jpg


AGENDA DRIVEN HAND PICKED FLASH-ON-YOUR-SCREEN CLUTCH STATS

go ahead/gamer winner vs clutch time (last 5 minutes which also includes the last :24 secs):dwillhuh:
 

IllmaticDelta

Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
28,893
Reputation
9,531
Daps
81,348
HOLD UP

KOBE IS THE ONLY ONE WIT A WINNING RECORD IN THAT N U THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO LEAD OFF WITH?

:deadmanny:

lebron has a winning record in elimination games (2018)

Heading into Friday’s Game 6 in Cleveland against the Celtics, LeBron has won 12 of the 21 playoff elimination games his teams have faced, while averaging 33.5 points, 10.8 rebounds, 7.3 assists, and a 57.6 true shooting percentage. Those 33.5 points are the most any player in NBA history has averaged when facing playoff elimination (minimum three games, since Anthony Davis now has 70 total points in two elimination games). Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain, the two greatest scorers in NBA history, are second and third on that list, at 31.3 and 31.1, respectively.

LeBron James Is the King of Elimination Games
 

10bandz

RIP to the GOAT
Supporter
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
42,929
Reputation
7,521
Daps
213,089
People that don't understand there is more to clutch then go ahead buckets. Copied and pasted from an older thread here I posted it in. I'm not a Kobe or Bron fan.


This was as of August 2017. LeBron had one more playoff run after this so take that into account.
Found this on Reddit awhile back.

Clutch" is 2 minutes left with margin of 3 in playoffs,
Playoff
Lebro
    • He is 40/106 in clutch situation
    • His free throw shooting is 49/67
    • True Shooting is, 49.8%
    • Assist per 36: 4.2 assists
    • Turnovers per 36: 4.2 turnovers
    Kobe
    • He is 40/96 in clutch situations.
    • His free throw shooting is 67/79
    • His true shooting is 58 %
    • Assists per 36: 4.3 assists
    • Turnovers per 36: 1.7 turnovers
    Finals: Last 2 minutes, margin of 3.

    Lebron
    • He is 4/23 in clutch situations
    • His free throw shooting is 10/14
    • His true shooting is 31%
    • Assists per 36: 3.7 assists
    • TO per 36: 3.7 TO
    Kobe
    • He is 10/20 in clutch situations
    • His free throw shooting is 4/5
    • His true shooting is 56.4%
    • Assists per 36: 7.5 assists
    • TO per 36: 1.5 TO
    Finals: Last 5 minutes, margin of 5.

    Lebron
    • 17/62 in clutch situations in the finals.
    • 32% EFG
    • 43% TS.
    • Assists per 36: 4.26
    • TO per 36: 3.1
    Kobe
    • 28/63 in clutch situations in the finals.
    • 46% EFG
    • 53% TS.
    • Assists per 36: 3.6
    • TO per 36: 1.08

    The narrative that Kobe isn't clutch and LeBron is , is weird.
    There's more to clutch then buzzer beater



:wow: repped
 

GoddamnyamanProf

Countdown to Armageddon
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
35,795
Reputation
975
Daps
106,200
Leave it to a Kobe stan to try to ignore all the data and instead push a preferred narrative based around a couple shots in a regular season game in February. I knew it couldnt be postseason cause Kobe got easily swept by Dallas the one time they faced each other.
 

Sccit

LA'S MOST BLUNTED
Bushed
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
56,438
Reputation
-19,899
Daps
75,494
Reppin
LOS818ANGELES
Top