The future is African — and the United States is not prepared

[MischievousMonkey]

Yup, Chinese people are buying up huge lands in Africa. In the long run, do you not see the issue with foreigners owning large chunks of land in Africa? Go see how it benefitted Haiti or pre revolution Cuba when American companies had huge lands there. Funnily enough, in China its a pain for foreigners to get permission from the government to own land. There’s a reason for that. African leaders aren’t playing the long game. They want simple solutions and quick results.

Of course it's an issue, but I believe painting it as a lazy quick fix is too simplistic too.

You can't have nothing for free today. Everything has a price. Africa's economic and political problems are numerous and won't resolve by themselves. A logical first step that would make sense short and long term-wise would be to bet on infrastructures and education as a mean to see their benefits trickle down. But these infrastructures won't pop up magically. Using our resources so as to get them is not only smart, it's basically our only way out if we really want to make development our top priority.

It has negatives, like all solutions in a continent that has been so severely beaten up over the centuries, but it makes sense. Like you said yourself: once we have more power and can stand on our two own feet, we'll be able to renegociate the terms of these contracts.

 

[Betty Draper]

Of course it's an issue, but I believe painting it as a lazy quick fix is too simplistic too.

You can't have nothing for free today. Everything has a price. Africa's economic and political problems are numerous and won't resolve by themselves. A logical first step that would make sense short and long term-wise would be to bet on infrastructures and education as a mean to see their benefits trickle down. But these infrastructures won't pop up magically. Using our resources so as to get them is not only smart, it's basically our only way out if we really want to make development our top priority.

It has negatives, like all solutions in a continent that has been so severely beaten up over the centuries, but it makes sense. Like you said yourself: once we have more power and can stand on our two own feet, we'll be able to renegociate the terms of these contracts.

You think these governments will improve their citizens lives when these big projects are over? Africa’s biggest problem is corruption and neo-colonialism. Go look at the stats of African countries. Look at their national budget and see how little they spend on basic functions of government. Where does the rest of the money go? Buhari recently said young Nigerians are lazy. This is a man who hasn’t helped the Nigerian economy, billions of dollars have gone unaccounted for and there are no jobs for the people. People sell anything to get by but Buhari thinks they’re lazy.

Political culture in Africa needs to change. Governments openly steal huge amounts whilst their people starve. Education and infrastructure isn’t shaping up as it should do. Some countries in Africa have 70% illiteracy. As you travel to the rural areas you see no development. No hospital or school for miles. All these big projects are not reflecting on the population. It’s mostly flashy buildings and deals that only benefit a small few. Plus, it’s usually only in the big cities. Most rural areas are untouched for decades.

I’m not saying African governments should be isolationists but they should look for foreign investments wisely. South Korea, China, Singapore etc didn’t build up just by inviting foreigners. They made sure foreigners taught their high skills to citizens. They made sure foreigners were under their terms. You had to partner with local businesses and teach them how you handle big business operations to do business there. Now all these countries are producing things, not just selling off raw materials or relying on foreign investors. African leaders trade raw materials and give foreigners too many benefits. Africa needs to start producing, not exporting raw materials. Education, healthcare, infrastructure all those things are poor and it’s worse in the rural areas which makes up most of these countries. A lot of those governments need to be purged. China has considerable influence over African politics already. This is not a balanced relationship.

 

[MischievousMonkey]

You think these governments will improve their citizens lives when these big projects are over? Africa’s biggest problem is corruption and neo-colonialism. Go look at the stats of African countries. Look at their national budget and see how little they spend on basic functions of government. Where does the rest of the money go? Buhari recently said young Nigerians are lazy. This is a man who hasn’t helped the Nigerian economy, billions of dollars have gone unaccounted for and there are no jobs for the people. People sell anything to get by but Buhari thinks they’re lazy.

Political culture in Africa needs to change. Governments openly steal huge amounts whilst their people starve. Education and infrastructure isn’t shaping up as it should do. Some countries in Africa have 70% illiteracy. As you travel to the rural areas you see no development. No hospital or school for miles. All these big projects are not reflecting on the population. It’s mostly flashy buildings and deals that only benefit a small few. Plus, it’s usually only in the big cities. Most rural areas are untouched for decades.

I’m not saying African governments should be isolationists but they should look for foreign investments wisely. South Korea, China, Singapore etc didn’t build up just by inviting foreigners. They made sure foreigners taught their high skills to citizens. They made sure foreigners were under their terms. You had to partner with local businesses and teach them how you handle big business operations to do business there. Now all these countries are producing things, not just selling off raw materials or relying on foreign investors. African leaders trade raw materials and give foreigners too many benefits. Africa needs to start producing, not exporting raw materials. Education, healthcare, infrastructure all those things are poor and it’s worse in the rural areas which makes up most of these countries. A lot of those governments need to be purged. China has considerable influence over African politics already. This is not a balanced relationship.

I know and agree with all that you said. But you're recitating the issues forming the cycle without proposing solutions.

Saying "political culture in Africa needs to change", "Africa needs to start producing" or "these governments need to be purged" is not proposing solutions, this is repeating the state of the situation and saying "undo it".

Once again, I agree that all these problems are major and multi-faceted but I like to wonder how to fix it. Giving the fact that issues paralysing the continent work in a system in which negative elements reinforce each other, you have to go for a breakthrough using what you have at disposal.
What we have is ressources. Using them as a mean to get infrastructures make sense since infrastructures will allow to raise the level of life, the education, etc... which will then allow for political changes to occur. It is unlikely that corruption (backed by the west in what appears to be a lot of cases) will be put to an end durably by people struggling to make ends meet/without a minimal education. Using China's interest in Africa is good way to bypass corrupt dirigeants to force the continent into development.

Now I totally understand the fact that corruption might be an obstacle to riches transfer from Asia to African populations. But peep this:



https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/china-building-trade-related-infrastructure-africa

https://www.thebusinessyear.com/top-10-china-infrastructure-projects-in-africa-2018/focus

They are building as we speak. Loans still are a large part of their effort to develop the continent, but they are also sending workers to assist directly in these projects. This is not like they were just handing out money to corrupt leaders, landing directly in their pockets to make new palaces. Corruption won't stop every project from being made, it is a thorn in the foot, but how else do you propose to work through it?

We also have to take into account how the "neo-colonialism by China" narrative is heavily pushed by the West while they are trying to maintain a decaying influence in the continent they have eaten from for centuries. When mundial organisations block ambitious infrastructure building projects between Asia and Africa, this is simply competition at play. My opinion is that Africa must take advantage of the situation to serve its best interests.

Yes, the terms of these loans and contracts are heavily disadvantaging for us, I recognize that. But this is a fight that we will be able to indulge in once we are standing. Debt can always be renegociated.
There's also the issue of the type of infrastructures built, not enough target education and health. That, to me, is the number one priority, because it will help alleviate all our other issues.

Just my not so educated two cents, always open to learn

 

[2NDWAR]

I don't know why our people in Africa and the Western world do not see that they will never be NOTHING in the current oil based capitalist system. It was built off our backs to keep you us as a permeant underclass. China will come in and "develop", you will own nothing and be the workers just like in South Africa. Is that what you want just so you can have some skyscrapers and BMWs and Lexus driving threw Streets? . Forget about that shyt, It has nothing to do with us.



This is what happens when you cannot see a world in your OWN image. Even in Wakanda they clapped some african tribal stuff on cities that look Western. You should be Running the OPPOSITE direction of the world they created to enslave you. nikkas should be building cities on Canals (somewhat like Venice) and using those creative african minds to innovate new ways of how we navigate our cities. I wanna get in my ODEWE sea-pod and go from Senegal to Florida like I'm on a highway. Thats how you create INDUSTRY. We need a new a TYPICAL shell of how we want to build our cities and then duplicate it everywhere (canals, innovative drainage, etc etc with what natural resources we have) and use your african students minds to develop the machines you need to build them. You keep talking about the development of china, indonesia, etc etc the economy n all that n you missing the fact that in non of those nations are the ruling people dark like YOU. It is a world wide Color CASTE SYSTEM they set up, and you're not invited unless youre being COLONISED and going to be the SLAVE CLASS.


These African Cities look HORRIBLE anyway. They look like completely swagless Western Cities. Look At Cuba, its a beautiful cities made of Stone,. Why cant we imagine a world in our own image and take technology in the direction we want to? That is the TRUE FREEDOM!

 

[MischievousMonkey]

I don't know why our people in Africa and the Western world do not see that they will never be NOTHING in the current oil based capitalist system. It was built off our backs to keep you us as a permeant underclass. China will come in and "develop", you will own nothing and be the workers just like in South Africa. Is that what you want just so you can have some skyscrapers and BMWs and Lexus driving threw Streets? . Forget about that shyt, It has nothing to do with us.



This is what happens when you cannot see a world in your OWN image. Even in Wakanda they clapped some african tribal stuff on cities that look Western. You should be Running the OPPOSITE direction of the world they created to enslave you. nikkas should be building cities on Canals (somewhat like Venice) and using those creative african minds to innovate new ways of how we navigate our cities. I wanna get in my ODEWE sea-pod and go from Senegal to Florida like I'm on a highway. Thats how you create INDUSTRY. We need a new a TYPICAL shell of how we want to build our cities and then duplicate it everywhere (canals, innovative drainage, etc etc with what natural resources we have) and use your african students minds to develop the machines you need to build them. You keep talking about the development of china, indonesia, etc etc the economy n all that n you missing the fact that in non of those nations are the ruling people dark like YOU. It is a world wide Color CASTE SYSTEM they set up, and you're not invited unless youre being COLONISED and going to be the SLAVE CLASS.


These African Cities look HORRIBLE anyway. They look like completely swagless Western Cities. Look At Cuba, its a beautiful cities made of Stone,. Why cant we imagine a world in our own image and take technology in the direction we want to? That is the TRUE FREEDOM!

That's what I call an utopia

These beautiful creative african minds you describe flee their native countries as soon as possible due to the lack of opportunities and development. Shyt, I'm even the offspring of two of them

You don't get magically out of a capitalistic world. How does a changement as you describe, going against centuries of formatting, happens all of a sudden?

 

[2NDWAR]

That's what I call an utopia

These beautiful creative african minds you describe flee their native countries as soon as possible due to the lack of opportunities and development. Shyt, I'm even the offspring of two of them

You don't get magically out of a capitalistic world. How does a changement as you describe, going against centuries of formatting, happens all of a sudden?

It has to be something the people WANT. I don't know about africa, but many western blacks are literally born directionless. They don't know the world they are born into. Black people have to stop being afraid of looking at the reality of their position in the world and who these people are around them and what they represent. Its REALLY a self-esteem thing, more than anything. If nikkas hated "whitey" like they say they wouldve been moving this direction already. They wouldn't have needed "Wakanda" to hint it to them.

 

[MischievousMonkey]

It has to be something the people WANT. I don't know about africa, but many western blacks are literally born directionless. They don't know the world they are born into. Black people have to stop being afraid of looking at the reality of their position in the world and who these people are around them and what they represent. Its REALLY a self-esteem thing, more than anything. If nikkas hated "whitey" like they say they wouldve been moving this direction already. They wouldn't have needed "Wakanda" to hint it to them.

I feel you. But how do you want something you don't know?

If we talk about western black people (I'm one), we are born in a society subjugated by a system of white supremacy de facto that promotes integration at the same time. This is the combo that blinds us and breaks self-esteem. Can't want what you can't even fathom. Most of us feel/are deconnected from the continent and its culture because of this system we grow up in. The concious movement that emerged since BLM, Twitter and movies like Black Panther helps a lot, but most of it doesn't adress the elephant in the room; it tries to promote a fairer integration instead of advancing the idea that western countries are not our home.

If we talk about Africans, like I said, they are already deep down in capitalism and have way more pressing matters. Having to eat deny you the possibility to think long term.

It might sound pessimistic but eh

 

[2NDWAR]

Ehhhhh

 

[Samori Toure]

The US is the richest country in the world, not dependent on foreign aid and with great political power. The US has leverage. Most African countries are barely functioning and wield little power on the global stage in comparison to the US. Look at the relationship between China and US. It’s two powerful nations on an equal footing. African governments are too dependent on outsiders and fail to do the bare minimum. Most African countries don’t even have 24/7 electricity. I’m just being realistic. A lot has to change in Africa before we can start celebrating.

Every Country is dependent upon foreign aid. The USA is dependent upon foreign investors to loan them money. Without that money the USA could not cover many of their short and long term financial commitments, whether it be in military spending or domestic capital projects. The thing that no one is talking about is that taxes keep getting lowered by Republican Congresses, which is making it more difficult for the USA to service it's debts. Eventually it will all collapse.

The USA has less leverage than you think and you don't need to look any further than the 1930's to see the depression the Country sunk into due in large part due to isolationism. The USA is headed back to that same place under the idiot in Chief. When the USA left the World stage before it gave rise to Germany, Japan and other nations to fill the void. The USA is leaving the stage again under the fool in Chief, which is leaving the door open for China to become the World power.

 

[Losttribe]

forget the rest of the world

Which will never happen

With current leadership

Because forcing their nations debt and dependency is how they stay in power


Afrika never needed the rest of the world

 

[You Win Perfect]

how many in here have actually been to africa. cuz ya'll up in here talking shyt like YOU BEEN THERE LIVING and kno whats going on first hand

 

[Secure Da Bag]

The USA has less leverage than you think and you don't need to look any further than the 1930's to see the depression the Country sunk into due in large part due to isolationism.

I thought it was because of Stock Market fukkery?

how many in here have actually been to africa. cuz ya'll up in here talking shyt like YOU BEEN THERE LIVING and kno whats going on first hand

I haven't. But I have been perplexed that many Africans voraciously go after academic achievement but it does not translate to increased prosperity for the countries of Africa.

 

[Samori Toure]

I thought it was because of Stock Market fukkery?

The depression was world wide, so it wasn't just stock market related. The USA portion of it was significantly tied to the stock market decline, but heavy debt seems to be the major contributor for other countries that suffered. If you recall from your history class; the depression was the event that gave rise to Hitler and the Third Reich.

As for the USA; there were isolationist policies as far back as WWI that set the USA economy up for decline. If you will recall from your history the USA entered WWI late, after it had raged in Europe for several years. Many Americans resented being drawn into a European war. After the War was over America flourished for a bit of time because of the industrialism that occurred during the War (which is also the reason for the great migration of African Americans from the South to the North); but as time went by the USA went back into isolationism, which always stifles trade. That is where the USA was at the time of the Depression and where it stay until the beginning of WWII. It was WWII that actually lifted WWII out of the depression, because of ramped up industrial production. Oddly enough the build up to WWII also lifted Germany out of the depression.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

If you will recall from your history

First, don't ever tell me to "recall from my history" **joe budden voice**.
Second, it's been so long since I've studied any of that that I can't recall.

 

[MischievousMonkey]

Its more of a realistic thing for Western Blacks to create and then introduce into Africa. The best thing would be starting their own communities and at least getting back control of Food, Shelter, and education of some our people. That way we can control how our children are being socialized generation to generation. This is EXTREMELY important. We have NO control over our people. They are being socialized by hiphop culture (thats not really in our control) and whatever agenda they want to push threw their education/media in this country.

Fully agree with the bolded. Possible but hard to do in the European context of white supremacy (I'm talking about what I know).

2nd generations of African immigrants are not socialized by African standards because their parents left their native countries for particular reasons, better opportunities being the most common. This means these parents have a very particular mindset set on promotion and advancement of their lineage that they couldn't realize back home. It may be slowly changing with China meddling with their business but back then France and Western countries in general were considered like El Dorados and painted like models to follow and join since a young age. The use of colonial language in administration/national TV news is one of the sign of this psychological domination. I almost know for sure it's still the case: my cousin I used to visit in Senegal when I was little came to France to pursue her studies in business because there is a world between what she can do now and what she could have achieved had she stayed back home.
Plus they are very unaware of how white supremacy function, at least when they arrive. They of course are subjected to racism but not the full blown experience since they are already grown adults when they come.

All in all they are not armed nor do they particularly desire to socialize their kids in African fashion. And they are certainly not armed at all to prepare them to live in white societies. Like I said, they came to advance their family's quality of life following european capitalist ideals of advancement, so what they push for is full blown integration. Pops wouldn't push for me to know my native language because he wanted my french to be perfect so as to a be lil french boy. And let me tell you, almost none of the 2nd generation immigrants I encountered in my life speak the language of their parents, because they were all on that shtick when educating us. Shyt, I speak a way better french, english and spanish that their language. I'm trying to correct that though.

So whether it'd be language or african history, 2nd gens generally know none of that except for the glimpses of culture they catch at home or when visiting the continent during vacation (food and music, rhythm... holidays and clothing... not much else). 2nd gens are basically educated by school and their environment so they abide by european standards and way of life. Ok, it's maybe not so black and white, there is obviously a culture mix, but people underestimate how much European 2nd gens are. That's why most of them develop an elitist attitude towards the country of their parents, have pejorative terms for immigrants ("blédard") and don't want to go back/be associated with these countries growing up unconsciously fearing it might be an obstacle to their integration.

That's what happened for me and plenty others. You grow up in Europe, don't want to hear about Africa because there is a disconnect/you are educated in a white dominated society, so the images you associate with Africa are slavery, poverty, weakness and so on. What it takes for 2nd gens to break the chains are the development of a racial identity by being a victim of racism and discrimination since a young age. At this point you either grow up to be an Uncle Tom to deal with the cognitive dissonance, or you develop somehow a basic conciousness of racism and injustice. That's why 2nd gen are more aware of racism than their parents and Africans in general. Not enough to make the majority want to live or build in Africa though, because at this point they are European. You are used to that standard and way of life.


But I believe there is a way out though. I noticed that a lot of people on this forum complain about them, but let me tell you: Black Lives Matter, American twitter activists and posters, movies like Malcolm X or Black Panther are lowkey (highkey?) game changers from what I see.

Americans underestimate how much young people over the world want to be like them. Maybe I'll expand on that another time, but since the first heavily media relayed murders back in 2012, the "woke"/conscious movement that developed in the USA touched Europe as well via Internet, hip hop, movies. It changed a lot.

Aye I'm talking way too much. All in all I just wanted to talk about how socialization works where I'm at and how we can break nocive tendencies adopted because we didn't know better.

TL;DR: There's a way out but as things are going, I'm not so sure that the descendance of African immigrants still have/want a place in Africa.